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headsup
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2017, 07:33:55 PM »

As far as not agreeing...  I completely agree.  If we all agreed, there’d be no reason to discuss.

As far as a given capo acting differently than others (i.e. pulling strings out of tune more or less than another), I’d like to see the physics on that...  for that matter, I’d like to see the physics on fretting a string with ones finger having less of an affect than a capo.

Ed



I'm not sure what "physics" are involved, or perhaps I don't understand your post. ( Likely).
I stopped using capos years ago (when ever possible) because I got tired of re tuning my guitar(s) after putting one on.
 yes, many different capo, many guitars, and always, one or more strings became sharp.
Of course this depended on the capo, it's placement, it's design, and I've tried them all.

not until I bought the G7 capo a few years ago ( actually given to me by a music store as a challenge), did i discover that it's almost possible for this not to happen.
 still did, to some degree. (clutch as opposed to spring or tension-like most capos).

physics is simply my ear telling me, capo on, guitar needs tuned.
valuable stage time (no i don't have a roadie/guitar tech).

physics? dunno, just ears,  (if that counts for anything)...

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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2017, 08:38:19 PM »



I'm not sure what "physics" are involved, or perhaps I don't understand your post. ( Likely).
I stopped using capos years ago (when ever possible) because I got tired of re tuning my guitar(s) after putting one on.
 yes, many different capo, many guitars, and always, one or more strings became sharp.
Of course this depended on the capo, it's placement, it's design, and I've tried them all.

not until I bought the G7 capo a few years ago ( actually given to me by a music store as a challenge), did i discover that it's almost possible for this not to happen.
 still did, to some degree. (clutch as opposed to spring or tension-like most capos).

physics is simply my ear telling me, capo on, guitar needs tuned.
valuable stage time (no i don't have a roadie/guitar tech).

physics? dunno, just ears,  (if that counts for anything)...



Tuning comes down to physics...  string length, string diameter, and tension.  Pretty simple.  There are formulas to calculate what pitch a string should vibrate at depending on those values.  The same formulas are used to calculate where the frets should be.

I can see how positioning a capo would (probably) have an affect...  closer to the fret, you are pulling the string down at more of an angle which will most likely increase the tension and pull it sharp...  a little farther from the fret and it is less increase in tension so less sharp.  But it is no different than fretting the string with ones finger, or another capo.  In theory, the only way to avoid the added tension would be to have the fret raise up to the string height and not distort the string.

I don't get how different capos give different results...  some are easier or harder to adjust or put on and take off, but the physics of what they do (shorten the string length) is the same.

Ed
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Mikeymac
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2017, 09:58:05 PM »


I don't get how different capos give different results...  some are easier or harder to adjust or put on and take off, but the physics of what they do (shorten the string length) is the same.

Ed

In many cases it has to do with the radius of the capo's rubber pad that presses down on the strings. In my experience, the low E string and high E and B are usually sharp after applying a capo. Even if the capo matches the fretboard radius, there are other physics issues going on (as you mentioned). 

One: the thickness of the low E string means it gets pushed down more than the A, D, etc. in order for the A, D, and others to not buzz. This causes it to go sharp.

Two: I think on the other end, the high strings, which are light, end up with more pressure on them than needed in order to hold down the G, D, etc., so they also tend to go sharp.  Maybe the solution is a capo with different heights on the pad applying more accurate pressure to each string? Who knows? 

This is really obvious on a 12-string, where you have to push the thicker strings down with extreme pressure in order to get the thin/octave strings not to buzz...lots of retuning necessary then.

Also, most capos squeeze the neck from one side or the other (there are a couple designs that just have one screw pushing on a pad in the middle of the back of the neck). This uneven squeezing pressure might also be responsible for throwing certain strings out of tune. I always try most capos from both the top and bottom of the fretboard to see if they go out of tune less from one side or the other.

Just more random thoughts... carry on.

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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2017, 10:44:42 PM »

In many cases it has to do with the radius of the capo's rubber pad that presses down on the strings. In my experience, the low E string and high E and B are usually sharp after applying a capo. Even if the capo matches the fretboard radius, there are other physics issues going on (as you mentioned). 

One: the thickness of the low E string means it gets pushed down more than the A, D, etc. in order for the A, D, and others to not buzz. This causes it to go sharp.

Two: I think on the other end, the high strings, which are light, end up with more pressure on them than needed in order to hold down the G, D, etc., so they also tend to go sharp.  Maybe the solution is a capo with different heights on the pad applying more accurate pressure to each string? Who knows? 

This is really obvious on a 12-string, where you have to push the thicker strings down with extreme pressure in order to get the thin/octave strings not to buzz...lots of retuning necessary then.

Also, most capos squeeze the neck from one side or the other (there are a couple designs that just have one screw pushing on a pad in the middle of the back of the neck). This uneven squeezing pressure might also be responsible for throwing certain strings out of tune. I always try most capos from both the top and bottom of the fretboard to see if they go out of tune less from one side or the other.

Just more random thoughts... carry on.



Good points.

Ed
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markj
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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2017, 11:28:02 PM »

It arrived today. I told the Mrs. she could wrap it up for me along with the strings and DVD. I won't see it again until Christmas day.   bigrin
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Yippie
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« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2017, 11:41:04 PM »

Congrats, pretty sweet gifts.
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mike in lytle
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« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2017, 11:55:47 PM »

It arrived today. I told the Mrs. she could wrap it up for me along with the strings and DVD. I won't see it again until Christmas day.   bigrin

That is exactly what I told my wife as well.
Mike
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« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2017, 12:17:21 AM »


That is exactly what I told my wife as well.
Mike

lol.  Great minds! But then, we play Larrivee guitars, so that's a given.   
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« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2017, 01:48:29 AM »

Yes, actually cut the rubber and the plastic frame as well. I think I used a razor saw (like a model saw) for this (I use a similar saw blade to cut .010 notches for high E strings in nuts).

Here are a couple pictures - it looks a little rough I'll admit (I didn't try to clean it up much) but it works great.

I've also used a ukulele capo successfully to capo just 5 strings on a guitar.



Cool!  I’m going to have to try that.
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headsup
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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2017, 01:01:28 PM »

In many cases it has to do with the radius of the capo's rubber pad that presses down on the strings. In my experience, the low E string and high E and B are usually sharp after applying a capo. Even if the capo matches the fretboard radius, there are other physics issues going on (as you mentioned).  

One: the thickness of the low E string means it gets pushed down more than the A, D, etc. in order for the A, D, and others to not buzz. This causes it to go sharp.

Two: I think on the other end, the high strings, which are light, end up with more pressure on them than needed in order to hold down the G, D, etc., so they also tend to go sharp.  Maybe the solution is a capo with different heights on the pad applying more accurate pressure to each string? Who knows?  

This is really obvious on a 12-string, where you have to push the thicker strings down with extreme pressure in order to get the
Also, most capos squeeze the neck from one side or the other (there are a couple designs that just have one screw pushing on a pad in the middle of the back of the neck). This uneven squeezing pressure might also be responsible for throwing certain strings out of tune. I always try most capos from both the top and bottom of the fretboard to see if they go out of tune less from one side or the other.

Just more random thoughts... carry on.














Thanks, so; physics aside, as I have maintained;

capo on-re-tune your guitar.
 
the spring loaded ones are the worst.
 the Shubb ones are the least worst ( adjustable tension).
 the Thalia and G7 (original clutch design) are REALLY close, and I suspect the different radius "pads" will make them better.

As I mentioned, I'll wait to hear the real reviews before plopping down a buck twenty for something I don't use much.

However, it's certainly brilliant of John Jr. and the marketing folks to forge this partnership, as they have also done with the leather folks.

 Congrats!
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« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2017, 01:46:07 PM »

Kind of bummed. Got mine a couple of weeks ago, so I guess I miss out on the goodies. But they are nice capos, and feel very substantial. The Santos Rosewood I ordered matches nicely with the rosewood on my Larrivee guitar.
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Walkerman
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« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2017, 02:39:31 PM »

Kind of bummed. Got mine a couple of weeks ago, so I guess I miss out on the goodies. But they are nice capos, and feel very substantial. The Santos Rosewood I ordered matches nicely with the rosewood on my Larrivee guitar.

Read some older posts on this thread.  One member was in the same situation as you.  He contacted junior and got the goodies.
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Mikeymac
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« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2017, 04:05:18 PM »

Read some older posts on this thread.  One member was in the same situation as you.  He contacted junior and got the goodies.

Yes, that would be me - I contacted John, Jr., and they sent me the DVD and two sets of EXP strings... like you, I had ordered right before this promotion started. They will just need to know your order number to confirm your purchase, and you should be good to go.

 
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Walkerman
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« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2017, 05:48:44 PM »

Yes, that would be me - I contacted John, Jr., and they sent me the DVD and two sets of EXP strings... like you, I had ordered right before this promotion started. They will just need to know your order number to confirm your purchase, and you should be good to go.

 

Doncha just love this forum .....
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« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2017, 11:09:05 PM »

I'd like one. But I know darn good and well that within about 3 shows I'd have lost all the extra inserts and what not. Just how it goes. Still .... I like the idea.
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« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2017, 02:14:23 PM »

The Thalia capo's, custom fit, pads will fit Larrivee guitars?

They're advertised heavily on YouTube. I've been considering getting one.
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Yippie
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« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2017, 08:54:27 PM »

Sure does. #16 fits perfectly. 
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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2018, 05:58:23 AM »


 Hey Gang,

  There's a thread going on over at the AGF forum on Thalia. There's a lot of discussion, not only here and AGF, but other media platforms as well, about this product. The second most brought up topic is the price.  I just posted my $0.02 worth and wanted to share what I had posted here with our family.

    "We are huge fans of Thalia capos over here. Many of us here use and own one and have recently partnered with them for a Larrivée branded line. We often here folks balk at the price citing cheaper ones do the trick. A few thoughts to consider when evaluating their price. These capos are precision made in America, by Americans, making American respectable wages. These are not offshore built or designed. The other thing to consider is exactly what these capos are. They are a luxury item for guitar players that want something nice that looks, feels, and performs like a high-end product. It's no different than folks who appreciate and wear nice watches. Do you need an expensive watch to tell time? No, but some folks just like that. Anyways, great product, great management and staff. Can't say enough... thanks folks."

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Mikeymac
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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2018, 03:50:42 PM »

Sure does. #16 fits perfectly. 

I've also found that the #20 radius (which comes with the Larrivee purchased units) fits Larrivees well.

I'm never sure what the radius is on Larrivee fingerboards - it's been advertised as 16, also as a compound radius (16-20/21) or even 20. I know Martin says their are 16, and Larrivee's certainly seem a bit flatter to me.
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1979 L-19
1992 OM-05    
2010 D-03 w/Italian Spruce top
2010 RS-4 in Candy Blue
2013 C-10 Italian Spruce/Silver Oak
2016 L-05 Custom
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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2018, 05:01:59 PM »

I've also found that the #20 radius (which comes with the Larrivee purchased units) fits Larrivees well.

I'm never sure what the radius is on Larrivee fingerboards - it's been advertised as 16, also as a compound radius (16-20/21) or even 20. I know Martin says their are 16, and Larrivee's certainly seem a bit flatter to me.

They are compound, but I’ve heard varying numbers...16-20 or 17-21.  I agree that it seems flatter than 16.
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