Question about stock tuners

[drathbun]

Well Ping just isn't Grover, Schaller or Gotoh are they? You get what you pay for with Ping. I bought a set of Pings for my old Squire strat. They are better than that tin crap they put on those Korean strats. And the Pings on my L05 seem to be holding up okay. The the L05 is only a year old. I expect I'll be replacing them at some point.

Oh yeah... and I put a set of Pings on my old Yammie FG150. I bought that guitar for $80 on eBay. It had only five tuners, none of them matched, and it had home made bridge pins! It is a great old beater!

[tubetone74]

My Pings are working good, but just currious.
What other specific units out there would be a direct drop in replacement????

[bikodog]

I have Ping's on all 3 of my guitars, and I've had to tighten the nut at the bottom of the post on all 3 guitars.  No matter how much you humidify,  occasionally the neck is going to swell or contract.  You don't want to overtighten the nut, but it will loosen over time.  Have all of you done this, and still had a problem?  They're not the silkiest tuners by far, but once I've done this, I don't have a problem of the strings staying in tune in relation to each other. 

[Big Martin]

I replaced the Ping's on my new OM19 within a week.. they would not stay in tune no how, no way....

went to Grover Stay-Tites - noticeably lighter weight + olde timey look, as well as staying in tune!

worth it to me, but not a straight drop-in.. need conversion bushings

Did you take note of any tonal changes in the tone of the OM from before to after the change?  Does it sound noticeably better - or worse?

The difference in weight (/mass) on the headstock changed/lightened by around 4 to 5 ounces PER TUNER for a total reduction of around 24 to 30 ounces.   Thats 1.5 to 1.7 pounds lighter - a LOT on a 5 to 7 pound instrument.  Theoretically this could make a significant difference in tone.

I have been trying to begin such a discussion but no one seems to note any changes in tone.  Several folks who installed lighter tuners on Gibson acoustics have noted that the tone improves after such a lightening, PARTICULARLY when playing up the neck.

Anyone?  Surely someone has discussed such before...

[jwsamuel]

The difference in weight (/mass) on the headstock changed/lightened by around 4 to 5 ounces PER TUNER for a total reduction of around 24 to 30 ounces.   Thats 1.5 to 1.7 pounds lighter - a LOT on a 5 to 7 pound instrument.  Theoretically this could make a significant difference in tone.

Someone is going to have to weight these things. There is no way I will believe that Gotohs are 4 to 5 ounces lighter than the Pings, per tuner. That is 1/4 pound and there is no way the Pings weigh that much.

Jim

[heartwood]

I replaced the Ping's on my new OM19 within a week.. they would not stay in tune no how, no way....

went to Grover Stay-Tites - noticeably lighter weight + olde timey look, as well as staying in tune!




worth it to me, but not a straight drop-in.. need conversion bushings

Ta,

d.

Very, very nice!

Michael

[Big Martin]

Someone is going to have to weight these things. There is no way I will believe that Gotohs are 4 to 5 ounces lighter than the Pings, per tuner. That is 1/4 pound and there is no way the Pings weigh that much.

Jim

You are absolutely correct.  The weight of the whole set is a difference of about 5 or 6 ounces - again, for THE WHOLE SET.  I should have though a bit deeper before posting.

Here is Bryan Kimseys page about tuners listing weights:

http://www.bryankimsey.com/tuners/


He discusses the difference in tuner post height and the resulting difference in break angle ove the nut - generally saying a larger break angle over a shorter post being better for tone

[heartwood]

Heartwood,...Since you have "acid hands" have you tried Elixir strings?

Cowgirlie, Thanks for the suggestion.  Actually, I do like Elixers, alot.  At first they are a little fuzzy sounding on this guitar, but they soon lose that quality and settle in nicely.  But I tend to play so much that there isn't really any savings for me. In fact, they tend to be more expensive because I wear them out with playing time and metal fatigue from using multiple tuinings.  There are only so many optimum playing hours on any set of strings and I tend to wear them out as well as "kill" them with my chemistry.

I have just come to accept that in order to have the sustain that I enjoy, I have to change strings at the very least twice a week.  For now, except for when recording, cheap strings are the best solution for me.  I am waiting on a delivery of WebStrings @ $2.35 per set. I have another forum member to thank for pointing me in this direction.

Michael

[dermot]

Did you take note of any tonal changes in the tone of the OM from before to after the change?  Does it sound noticeably better - or worse?
Theoretically this could make a significant difference in tone.
I have been trying to begin such a discussion but no one seems to note any changes in tone.  Several folks who installed lighter tuners on Gibson acoustics have noted that the tone improves after such a lightening, PARTICULARLY when playing up the neck.
Anyone?  Surely someone has discussed such before...

Heartwood;
As the OM was only a week old it's in a state of constant change (always seemingly for the better) and i am coming to grips with it's strengths - i could not really talk about more than the mechnical atributes of the Grover's

UMGF has discussed this at length in the past... the only times i have swapped tuners is for mechnical/functional reasons - my 32' Dobro has a set of 74 year old cheap crap tuners on it still - and they still work fine.. if the pings were close to functioning as those do... the Ping's would stilll be on the guitar

Anyhow.... back to tuners... can't testfy to sonic improvments as the OM is too new, no noticable diffrence on my Martin 12 fret D that i swaped to Schaler openbacks;



Work well....look nice too...

ta,

d.

[Big Martin]

Anyhow.... back to tuners... can't testfy to sonic improvments as the OM is too new, no noticable diffrence on my Martin 12 fret D that i swaped to Schaler openbacks;



Work well....look nice too...

Arent you the one who has ordered the Custom D-15S's, one with sitka top/mahog b/s; and one with rosewood back sides?

Are you still liking those? 

[dermot]

Big Martin;

Yea.. that's me ;-))

and yea i love the sitka/mahog one i have already... (picie of headstock above) the sitka/rosewood one arrives in Febuary.....

just was playng the 12 fretter, i also have it in CGDGAD was working on "Star of the County Down" in waltz time A/B'n with the OM19 with similar strings

the OM is looking like it will become my "standard tuning/lights" fingerstyle guitar... and the sustain of the 12 fretters is unbeatable in drop tunings where open strings are in play a bit more....

The customs were / are inexpensive & replaceable.... i got the first one so i could keep the old D18 safe at home.. ordered the second one when the first one blew my socks off...... and what has become almost redundant is my 54' D18.. the  12 fretter has more of everything.... except the strumming/flatpicking catagory.. and there's not much of that in my house really...... the OM is much more comfortable and handles everything but really digging in with a stiff pick. 

they are priced well under the SD60  and D28VS.... if i had the option of a SD03 / SD03R tho i would have gone that way in a flash, and i dream of a SD19K at the price of my OM19.... dream, dream, dream..... bet i would replace those tuners as well tho;-))

ThnX for asking

d.

[Big Martin]

Big Martin;

Yea.. that's me ;-))

and yea i love the sitka/mahog one i have already... (picie of headstock above) the sitka/rosewood one arrives in Febuary.....

So what custom items have you done?.  See if I recall:

Base D-15S - usual bracing, low profile neck, rosewood fingerboard and bridge
Sitka top  (any special grade or feature here?)
SW tortoise rosette
tortoise binding
rosewood headstock veneer
inlay at headstock

Did I miss anything?  Did you consider anything different (ebony fretboard, etc?)

[dermot]

Big Martin;

Base D-15S - usual bracing, low profile neck, rosewood fingerboard and bridge
Sitka top  (any special grade or feature here?)
SW tortoise rosette
tortoise binding
rosewood headstock veneer
inlay at headstock

you pretty much got it.. i was looking for a cost effective 12 fret D as my back-up, and Larrivee were not interested in building a custom SD03.. (that really was my first choice) so off to Martin i went.....

Base D-15S - usual bracing, low profile neck, rosewood fingerboard and bridge
- the most cost effective 12 fret D out there

Sitka top  (any special grade or feature here?)
- i asked for re-claimed wood ala SWD series.. got a nicely bearclawed top, no further upcharge for that.. just being a tree hugging old hippie i guess...

SW tortoise rosette
tortoise binding
- binding top & bottom, SWD rosette

rosewood headstock veneer
- that's standard D15S there.. was contemplating changing it (to Koa) when adding the inlay, but decided not to bother

inlay at headstock
- the inlay & tuners i added after i decided that it was a life time keeper, glossed it up and swapped saddles for a while before going back to the stock plastic one, added a grevin PG, and compensated nut.....

I guess we have completly hi-jacked the thread about tuners now eh? sorry for the hi-jack!

my luck at NAMM they announce a SD03R ;-))))

or a SD19K.....

Ta,

d.

[heartwood]

Yeah, you guys have hijacked the thread and I forgive you for that.  But I am holding a bit of a grudge for the drool on the tops of my boots. :WNK>  What a great headstock!  And the description of the custom guitars sent me into a fetal postion.

I have a friend who has a Collings slope D, 12 fret,  slotted headstock (sitka spruce/rosewood). He said that it is the loudest guitar he has ever owned.  He keeps forgetting to bring it over and keeps bringing other wonderful guitars.  He has a knack for finding really nice instruments.  He might be saving it for last to prove his point.  Or, maybe it's because he almost committed to selling it to me and then changed his mind.  He might just be sparing me the torture...for which Iam greatful.

Michael

[UK Mike]

My Pings are fine - but I hear lots of very good things about the Gotoh 510s. I'm not sure I like the look of the 510s though - I think Dermot's replacements looks just fantastic.

Cheers

Mike

[Acoustickler]

I think the stock tuners on Larrivees are Pings. They aren't premium tuners by any stretch. However, I had one tuner bind on me and asked Brian T. about it. He sent me a new tuner the very next day!

Sorry.. I just edited this post because I posted the wrong tuners from Gotoh. They are Gotoh 510s and are drop-in replacements. They are about $75 a set from Stewmac.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead/1/Gotoh_510_Guitar_Full-size_Guitar_Machines/Pictures.html#details

Hi,

I'm new to the forum, but this topic interested me.  Do you know if the stock tuners were always Ping?  I have a '98 D-10 (Brazilian) and I was thinking of replacing the tuners.  I don't really have a performance complaint, but I think the look of the guitar could be improved.  On a gorgeous Brazilian headstock with pearl and abalone inlay I have...gold tuners???  For my taste, the guitar would look much better with a silver tuner, or with a pearl-type button, or with a dark-grain wood button.

When you say Gotoh 510 is a drop in replacement, do you mean the the screw holes will line up too?  I'm very hesitant to do any drilling  .

Cheers,
Blair

[drathbun]

Looking at the specs for the 510's they should be drop-in replacements down to the placement of the screwholes. I have not done this replacement however so it would be best to hear from someone who has had first-hand experience.

Doug

[Redeemed]

Hi Acoustickler and welcome to the forum!

Way back when...I believe Larrivee's came equipped with Schaller tuning machines.  I'm not exactly sure when and for how long.  But if your D-10 does indeed have the pings, then Gotoh 510's will indeed be a direct drop-in replacement with all the holes lining up.

Here are some before and after photos of my ping to 510 swap:




btw, the Gotoh 510's really are as nice as they all say they are.  The Larrivee Ping's weren't horrible, but they still don't come close to the accuracy of the 510's.


-dan

[Acoustickler]

Hi Acoustickler and welcome to the forum!

Way back when...I believe Larrivee's came equipped with Schaller tuning machines.  I'm not exactly sure when and for how long.  But if your D-10 does indeed have the pings, then Gotoh 510's will indeed be a direct drop-in replacement with all the holes lining up.

Here are some before and after photos of my ping to 510 swap:

Hey Dan,

Thanks for the welcome and the info on the 510s.  Nice job on your conversion! 

Now I just have to figure out if my existing tuners are the Pings or the Schallers.  :huh:

Cheers,
Blair.

[Redeemed]

Just post a picture!  (if you can that is)


-dan