Martin 16 series

[teh]

Martin has introduced several upgraded 16 series models that include a gloss finish top and satin back and sides in a variety of finishes. Some have a short 24.9" scale and others have a 25.4" scale, come in a gig bag, have an L.R. Baggs pickup and they've also been Pleked at the factory. It looks like a lot of companies have been upping their game on quality and features. I haven't played a 14 fret neck with a 24.9" scale but I'd like to give one a try. In the meantime, I'll keep enjoying my 12 fret satin finished Larrivees.

[William2]

It looks like Martin is trying to keep up with Gibson and their Century series. I think it makes Martin look pathetic. I've owned a couple of Martin DSS-17 instruments. They were replaced by the Larrivee D-40. And now a short scale DSS-16E (DSS-17), it won't sound as good as the long scale instrument. Love how Martin is trying to keep up with Gibson. And I think it speaks to what Martin is all about.

[John in Charm City]

While the 16 series isn't for me there is a lot to be said for a 14 fret short scale.  disregarding bracing it's a OOO in Martin vernacular or a custom order in Larrivee land.  Big fan of short scale.

John

[William2]

While the 16 series isn't for me there is a lot to be said for a 14 fret short scale.  disregarding bracing it's a OOO in Martin vernacular or a custom order in Larrivee land.  Big fan of short scale.

John

I wouldn't mind a short scale instrument myself. And I would like it attached to a large body like a J-45. Does Martin really think they can compete with a J-45 LOL? Or I still might get an all-hog instrument like the Martin 000-17 which is short scale and all hog instrument. But my guitar stand only holds 5 instruments and I'm there now so something would have to go. And that's the problem.

[BlueBowman]

It looks like Martin is trying to keep up with Gibson and their Century series. I think it makes Martin look pathetic. I've owned a couple of Martin DSS-17 instruments. They were replaced by the Larrivee D-40. And now a short scale DSS-16E (DSS-17), it won't sound as good as the long scale instrument. Love how Martin is trying to keep up with Gibson. And I think it speaks to what Martin is all about.

And Gibson, IMO, was pushed to build the Century line due to the success of smaller brands like Iris. Lightweight, responsive, powerful guitars priced around the $2K range. Tonally-speaking, they're not for everyone, but that's a lot of guitar at that price, and Gibson doesn't wanna miss out.

As for Martin, they've been trying to cater to every type of guitar player in the world for several decades now.   

[William2]

And Gibson, IMO, was pushed to build the Century line due to the success of smaller brands like Iris. Lightweight, responsive, powerful guitars priced around the $2K range. Tonally-speaking, they're not for everyone, but that's a lot of guitar at that price, and Gibson doesn't wanna miss out.

As for Martin, they've been trying to cater to every type of guitar player in the world for several decades now.   

Good point about Gibson and Iris. Let's not forget Waterloo either. I even get excited about the Gibson
Century series. I've never seen such an agreement of positives about a series of AGF as these instruments. And Gibson is underpricing Iris. I still think I'd go with a J-45 or J-35 faded instrument if I got a Gibson. I really prefer the J-35 sound. And I read that when the J-35 was released, it was called 35 because it only cost $35 LOL.

[BlueBowman]

Good point about Gibson and Iris. Let's not forget Waterloo either. I even get excited about the Gibson
Century series. I've never seen such an agreement of positives about a series of AGF as these instruments. And Gibson is underpricing Iris. I still think I'd go with a J-45 or J-35 faded instrument if I got a Gibson. I really prefer the J-35 sound. And I read that when the J-35 was resleased, it was called 35 because it only cost $35 LOL.

The same was originally true for the D-18 and D-28, costing $18 and $28, respectively.

[DaveyO]

Darn ,those new guitars are a little pricey,especially when you may have a binding problem.
Have they fixed that yet?
as a matter of fact Taylor's are getting rediculusly expensive as well.
2 grand for a laminate 2 series?

[BlueBowman]

Darn ,those new guitars are a little pricey,especially when you may have a binding problem.
Have they fixed that yet?
as a matter of fact Taylor's are getting rediculusly expensive as well.
2 grand for a laminate 2 series?

Time will tell. The last two Martin's I owned, both from the Vintage Series (and really good guitars), had the dreaded binding issue, but both were also built during the prime binding-issue years. Some fans say it's now fixed, but I don't know. Time will tell.

The Modern Deluxe guitars come with wood bindings. A major step in the right direction, IMO!

[William2]

I watched a video on Alamo Music of the new 16 series.  I commented on the DSS asking if it was just the DSS-17 with a short scale mensural. Someone responded stating that the DSS-17 had scalloped mid-scale bracing with standard scale and the bDSS-16E had forward shifted GE bracing and a short scale.

[teh]

I wanted to add some additional comments to my original post. Over the years since I started playing guitar, I've grown to appreciate companies/builders that are willing to embrace innovation and take chances. I was first drawn to Larrivee when I played some parlor guitars back in 2004. What drew me to their guitars was the build quality, clean design and workmanship along with the value, wood combinations available and the added touches like maple binding. Since then, I've added four more Larrivees to the mix including my 12 string, Forum VI, 00-24 and Baker T Pro. At the same time, I've watched Larrivee roll out guitars with unusual wood combinations including Moonwood Spruce, Walnut, Silver Oak, Lacewood and a variety of maple woods and unique headstock and rosette designs.

When I started  this thread about Martin's upgraded 16 series earlier this month, I was impressed with what I saw in these models. Martin has also caught my eye with the new OM-35 Inception Model which is reviewed in the Fall 2026 issue of Acoustic Guitar magazine. Martin reintroduced a version of the OM-35 in their standard line from 2003-2006. For some reason, this model never took off but my dealer grabbed one of the last ones to come off the line with a sunburst finish for me to compliment my 1976 sunburst D-35. After 20 years, this guitar has only gotten better with age. Regarding Martin's issue with bindings and in the interest of full disclosure, here's what happened to me earlier this year. The binding was beginning to separate in three places on the body of my 12 fret 000 built by the Custom Shop in 2015. I called Lay's Guitar Shop, an authorized Martin Repair Center in Akron, OH, which is about a 2 hour drive from my house. Since I am covered by the lifetime warranty as the original owner, the repair was fully covered at no expense to me. I have had two other unrelated warranty claims on my 50 year old D-35 over the years (A curled pick guard and top crack repair and a loose bridge) that were also fully covered. Lay's Guitar also competed a well earned fret replacement job and a self induced (by me) repair of an accidental side crack that were not covered but well worth it. I might add that I've never had a single issue with any of my Larrivees with the exception of a defective tuner on my parlor that was replaced with no hassles.

On the subject of innovation, I've noticed that Huss & Dalton now offers a satin finish, short scale  model (Valley Series) in both dreadnought and OM body sizes. They can be ordered with a Sitka top, a choice of mahogany or rosewood back and sides and the option of upgrading to a Red Adirondack top. There is a $500 non-refundable deposit and base price of $2,995. If builders like Collings and Santa Cruz would offer some lower cost options like Larrivee has been doing for years, that would catch my attention. Maybe I should look for a used Waterloo since Collings only offered them from 2014 to 2021-22, apparently another casualty of COVID.

[William2]

I recently have seen a couple of new Waterloo's on Reverb. The latest was a week or two ago. For me, the sound is just to limiting. I'd rather have an Iris or a Gibson Century model. A 14-fret short scale is very possibly in my future. I like the 12-fret sound but prefer that more defined immediate attack of a 14-fret instrument. I didn't know you could get a Huss & Dalton at that price. But again, there is that big price increase for an Adi top by an American maker. I do like companies like Taylor and Martin coming out with new things. It is fun to watch all the vendor videos of the latest and greatest thing LOL.

[BlueBowman]

Maybe I should look for a used Waterloo since Collings only offered them from 2014 to 2021-22, apparently another casualty of COVID.

Waterloo's are a lot of fun. Have you had a chance to play an Iris yet, Teh? They're a little Waterloo, a little vintage Gibson, and a little their own thing when it comes to tone. Distinctly different from either your Martin or Larrivee guitars, if you're looking for a new sound.

For me, the sound is just to limiting. I'd rather have an Iris or a Gibson Century model. A 14-fret short scale is very possibly in my future. I like the 12-fret sound but prefer that more defined immediate attack of a 14-fret instrument.

The thing about Iris guitars, they all have that immediate attack, including both 12- and 14-fretters. It's the way they are designed. Interestingly enough, the bracing on their X-braced guitars have the same layout as Larrivee's scalloped hybrid model: a tapered main X brace and scalloped tone bars. In contrast to Larrivee, Iris takes things to the extreme in how light they go with the bracing.

I've owned 7 different models from Iris. They are VERY fun to play, but their tonality is not something I'm after anymore. I still think they are a great value for an American-made guitar. Their consistency from guitar to guitar is up there with Collings, IMO.

[William2]

Waterloo's are a lot of fun. Have you had a chance to play an Iris yet, Teh? They're a little Waterloo, a little vintage Gibson, and a little their own thing when it comes to tone. Distinctly different from either your Martin or Larrivee guitars, if you're looking for a new sound.

The thing about Iris guitars, they all have that immediate attack, including both 12- and 14-fretters. It's the way they are designed. Interestingly enough, the bracing on their X-braced guitars have the same layout as Larrivee's scalloped hybrid model: a tapered main X brace and scalloped tone bars. In contrast to Larrivee, Iris takes things to the extreme in how light they go with the bracing.

I've owned 7 different models from Iris. They are VERY fun to play, but their tonality is not something I'm after anymore. I still think they are a great value for an American-made guitar. Their consistency from guitar to guitar is up there with Collings, IMO.

I like the Iris instruments and my dealer carries them. And I do like lightly built instruments. But I view them as instruments that maybe work best in blues or folk styles of music, and I don't play this music. And of my 5 guitars, 4 of them have rosewood back and sides. And for me, spruce /rosewood works best for what I play. I do think Iris now has a rosewood model dreadnought but I'm happy with what I have.