Getting To Know Bob Dylan

[Silence Dogood]

I thought it might be nice to have an ongoing Dylan thread, kind of like the book thread: a place to explore recently-discovered gems, old favorites, experiences, etc. 

Back story:

I am a newbie when it comes to Dylan.  I'm 50, grew up being aware of him, am familiar with the really popular Dylan songs everyone knows, enjoyed him in the Wilburys, but never seriously dipped a toe into the pool of his work until now. 

I'll tell you how this came about.

I'm sure there has been a recent surge in Dylan-interest due to the film, but I've not seen the film and, not enjoying newer films in general, will probably never watch it.  The thing that got me interested enough to explore him was my recent reading of Mike Campbell's book.  The way Campbell described working with Bob, his approach to songwriting, and what a quirky character he is, all got me curious. 

I have a paid subscription to Tidal (like Spotify) and looked up Dylan's catalog. Oh my! This will be more like a life-long endeavor than a casual pursuit if done correctly. 

When I'm going to explore someone's catalog, I usually go to the beginning and work in that direction.  But I'm not sure I'd ever get to the present with Dylan if I go that way.  It could take years to get to his recent work and for some reason I'm more curious about what he's up to these days than in his earlier years. 

So I started with his latest album, 2023's Shadow Kingdom.  Being a novice, I didn't realize at first that these are re-recorded versions of some of his older songs.  I was familiar with one title (It's All Over Now, Baby Blue) because of a CD of cover songs I once had back in the day: otherwise I never would have caught on and looked into it. 

About the album itself... well, WOW! What a truly beautiful, stripped-down, and sparse (instrument-wise) album.  I probably listened to it 7 or 8 times this week, maybe more.  If I get that hung up on all his albums, I'll never make it through his body of work.  This is a real concern of mine. 

Here are some songs that stood out to me:

Queen Jane Approximately (just a cool-sounding title too)

Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues (Probably my favorite track on the album; I went and heard the original version and like this one a lot better.  This song is like reading a novel with a cast of characters.  It's kind of mind-blowing how anyone can write like this and really put the listener there so well.)

Forever Young (How did I live 50 years and never hear this song?)

The temptation for some of you seasoned Dylan fans will be to chime in with recommendations.  I completely understand that.  But I'm going to resist the urge to bounce around with his albums; rather, I'm going to try and go backwards in order and see what I find. 

This will likely be a years-long project that may or may not ever see completion, but it's something I want to try. And I really feel like I have some things to learn from Dylan.  There is so much road-worn wisdom in his writing, and it hits me more like great literature than it does good music.  How someone can write so many songs, create so many melodies, etc., is hard to fathom on its own; but someone who can paint with words and leave you sort of numb like Dylan does is nothing short of fascinating. 

Feel free to chime in with your favorites, your stories and experiences with Dylan's work.  I am truly interested and curious to learn about how this has affected you and your life.   

I'll jump in here from time to time with my new findings, kind of like the book thread.  It may be a long time between entries as life demands more or less of my time and attention, but I'm going to make it a priority to keep Dylan going at a simmer behind it all and get to him every chance I get.   

[fantex]

I'm about in the same boat as you. 51 and never really got into Bob Dylan. In a college painting class I was assigned to do a painting from Bob Dylan's song A Hard Rain is Gonna Fall. I like it, don't ask about the painting.

I'm more into Townes Van Zandt and Guy Clark. I love Forever Young but I know it from Jimmy LaFave's (RIP) version. Jimmy covered quite a few BD songs... Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues, Positively 4th Street, Oh Sister and others.

[B0WIE]

 Maybe this can help me because I'm around the same age as the both of you and I struggle to "get" Dylan. In my 20's I listened to everything the old timers told me was brilliant.
Muddy Waters; I get it, I love it.
Frank Zappa; ^same.
Beatles; I'm not enraptured like some but I definitely get it.
Dylan; I feel like there's good songs but I don't see someone who is standing at the top of the songwriter's mountain. On the surface, I feel like I'm listening to someone who is very self-aware that people are listening to him. John Prine comes across as the opposite, like you're listening to the thoughts of the average man and, for me, he's 10x more down to earth and charming. But, so many people I respect credit Dylan and his genius. I know there's got to be something I am missing and I would love to find it. I have a feeling that learning about the person before learning about the music may have sabotaged me.

[Silence Dogood]

Some scattered thoughts...

The thing that got my attention while listening to that Dylan album was his ability to wordsmith.  I love language, the English language in particular.  It's my language and it is the paradigm through which I view and understand the world. 

While I have no doubt Dylan is a true master with the language and probably makes up the bulk of what he writes, Campbell gave some insight into his writing in his book.  He said Petty and Dylan would sometimes sit around with the newspaper looking for song lyrics.  There is nothing wrong with borrowing ideas to give birth to others.  It reminds me of the story of the Wilburys where George saw the words "Handle With Care" on a box while they were writing.  Next thing you know, there is a hit song.

Bowie brings up a good point about how learning about an artist can sabotage one's enjoyment.  When I got heavy into acoustic music around 20 years ago, this happened to me with Woody Guthrie. I read some stuff about him and learned (perhaps unfairly?) that he left his family to go pursue his dreams. "This machine kills fascists" and apparently families too. I heard Townes Van Zandt's son on a podcast once talk about how terrible of a father Townes was.  I'm sure the list goes on.  Men who would rather play with their toys and have praise heaped on them than come home to their families every night. 

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that there is a heavy narcissistic bent to artistic types, and possibly to songwriters in general.  I mean, they are putting themselves in front of the world and asking people to pay attention to what they have to say. They even expect money for it at some point. On one level, the whole concept is a little ridiculous.   

I watched Woodsongs for a number of years and noticed over and over how so many singer-songwriters came off as narcissists and took themselves and their art entirely too seriously. On top of that, many times these people were just awful. That sounds harsh and it's possibly even a bit unfair, but it ended up souring me to the show and I stopped watching at some point. My wife actually summed it up nicely one night while we were watching the show.  She said, "I like music, but I don't like artists." 

Have you ever noticed how everyday people smile in pictures, but artists will be brooding and looking oh so serious?  Art does enrich life, but it is also overblown and taken way too seriously. 

I wish ducktrapper was here since he is a Dylan nut.  He would surely have some interesting input. 

[B0WIE]

I watched Woodsongs for a number of years and noticed over and over how so many singer-songwriters came off as narcissists and took themselves and their art entirely too seriously. On top of that, many times these people were just awful. That sounds harsh and it's possibly even a bit unfair, but it ended up souring me to the show and I stopped watching at some point. My wife actually summed it up nicely one night while we were watching the show.  She said, "I like music, but I don't like artists."   

It's tough, and my wife really struggles with this. She hates learning about her favorite artists and actors because it's always a disappointment. I tell her not to expect someone to be a "real" person when they are lavished with fame, money, and adoration. The few that somehow remain down-to-earth are exceptions. I've been watching interviews with old 80's hair-metal stars and it's fascinating to see how people come down from celebrity. Most of the guitarists have learned how to be humble, "real" people while a lot of the frontmen just haven't been able to let it go. They're still playing a character and are often bitter and guarded.

My customers are all musicians and it feels like having thousands of friends because they are wonderful and I love talking to them. Even the famous ones have been great people. I do think super-stardom has a way of warping people though.

I wish ducktrapper was here since he is a Dylan nut.  He would surely have some interesting input. 

[William2]

I'm in my 70s and never followed Dylan. But I never really listened to most of the popular music at the time. Looking him up he has quite an extensive read on Wikipedia. I wonder who these people are that determine who the greatest song writers are. And I listened to some of his greatest hits yesterday some of which I had heard. I wonder if that counterculture and political messaging lyrics has any long-term appeal as time change. As a non-singer but a guitarist, I always look at the melody of a song as opposed to the lyrics for my own use.  I'm thinking this comment "and it hits me more like great literature than it does good music." as far as his song writing goes. I am curious as to the comments of becoming familiar with the artist and then exploring his music has made this harder. I wonder what type of person Dylan is.

[Queequeg]

I'm in my 70s and never followed Dylan. But I never really listened to most of the popular music at the time. Looking him up he has quite an extensive read on Wikipedia. I wonder who these people are that determine who the greatest song writers are. And I listened to some of his greatest hits yesterday some of which I had heard. I wonder if that counterculture and political messaging lyrics has any long-term appeal as time change. As a non-singer but a guitarist, I always look at the melody of a song as opposed to the lyrics for my own use.  I'm thinking this comment "and it hits me more like great literature than it does good music." as far as his song writing goes. I am curious as to the comments of becoming familiar with the artist and then exploring his music has made this harder. I wonder what type of person Dylan is.

Dylan was never my favorite artist; not that I actually disliked him. Just that I generally prefer instrumentals, though not exclusively.
I agree with William that his lyrics are really his strong suit and the fact that he won a Nobel Prize for Literature suggests that other people steeped in the arts might agree, too.
(I feel compelled to add that my understanding is that his mid-60s political songs (lyrics) were abandoned for more personal or perhaps I should say interpersonal songs.) He didn't want to lead the hippy and/or peace movement that many fans wished to shackle him with.
Although I don't listen to him much I did see the recent film and thought it quite good.
His legions of fans and voluminous catalog convinces me that he has a great deal of talent as an artist.

 

Most of the guitarists have learned how to be humble, "real" people while a lot of the frontmen just haven't been able to let it go. They're still playing a character and are often bitter and guarded.

My customers are all musicians and it feels like having thousands of friends because they are wonderful and I love talking to them. Even the famous ones have been great people. I do think super-stardom has a way of warping people though.

Having worked at a nationally known but small-ish music venue for many years and met countless artists I have to say that there were really only just a very few who were not gracious and appreciative with me and the entire staff.
Many of these performers were no longer playing to big crowds as they did in years gone by and as you say, have perhaps been "humbled" with age over time.
And so, I am reminded of the song On Your Way Down, written by Allen Toussaint and performed here by Little Feat.
Sunrise, sunset
Since the beginning, it hasn't changed yet
People fly high, begin to lose sight
'Cause you can't see very clearly when you're in flight
Well, it's high time that you found
The same people you misuse on your way up
You might meet up
On your way down
Vintage wines from the year '62
It's your thing, it's your thing
What pleases you
You got to frown when you cross town
You think it's an honor girl just to have you around
Well, It's high time that you found
The same dudes you misuse on your way up
You might meet up
On your way down (on your way down)
You think the sun rises and sets for you
But the same sun rises, sets and shines
On the folks too
I don't mind you turning round
I myself would even like a little higher ground
It's high time that you found
The same people you walk on, on your way up
You might meet up
On your way down

[Silence Dogood]

It's tough, and my wife really struggles with this. She hates learning about her favorite artists and actors because it's always a disappointment. I tell her not to expect someone to be a "real" person when they are lavished with fame, money, and adoration. The few that somehow remain down-to-earth are exceptions. I've been watching interviews with old 80's hair-metal stars and it's fascinating to see how people come down from celebrity. Most of the guitarists have learned how to be humble, "real" people while a lot of the frontmen just haven't been able to let it go. They're still playing a character and are often bitter and guarded.

My customers are all musicians and it feels like having thousands of friends because they are wonderful and I love talking to them. Even the famous ones have been great people. I do think super-stardom has a way of warping people though.

I can see how rock stars etc start out as regular people and get corrupted, have their egos get out of control etc.  This could easily happen to anyone who becomes surrounded by hangers-on types and has a constant stream of praise heaped upon them. Add to all that the tons of money which opens up options previously only dreamed of.  Many people could not stand the strain (I've never faced the temptation and don't want to).

I'm also an 80s hair metal head.  I usually start my electric guitar sessions off with 80s riffs to get my fingers awake.  Great stuff for that.

If this thread doesn't get duck out of hiding, nothing will...

[mike in lytle]

I'm in my 70s and never followed Dylan. But I never really listened to most of the popular music at the time. Looking him up he has quite an extensive read on Wikipedia. I wonder who these people are that determine who the greatest song writers are. And I listened to some of his greatest hits yesterday some of which I had heard. I wonder if that counterculture and political messaging lyrics has any long-term appeal as time change. As a non-singer but a guitarist, I always look at the melody of a song as opposed to the lyrics for my own use.  I'm thinking this comment "and it hits me more like great literature than it does good music." as far as his song writing goes. I am curious as to the comments of becoming familiar with the artist and then exploring his music has made this harder. I wonder what type of person Dylan is.

You can go and read Dylan's Nobel acceptance speech, it's really good.
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/2016/dylan/speech/

You can also read his Nobel lecture on the same website. It is long and less focused.
Mike

[Silence Dogood]

I'm in my 70s and never followed Dylan. But I never really listened to most of the popular music at the time. Looking him up he has quite an extensive read on Wikipedia. I wonder who these people are that determine who the greatest song writers are. And I listened to some of his greatest hits yesterday some of which I had heard. I wonder if that counterculture and political messaging lyrics has any long-term appeal as time change. As a non-singer but a guitarist, I always look at the melody of a song as opposed to the lyrics for my own use.  I'm thinking this comment "and it hits me more like great literature than it does good music." as far as his song writing goes. I am curious as to the comments of becoming familiar with the artist and then exploring his music has made this harder. I wonder what type of person Dylan is.

You raise a good point about who gets to decide what.  I enjoy literature and I noticed early on that that world is occupied by snobs.  If the right snobs say something is great, the others won't be far behind, and a great book is born.

Same goes for modern art.  I mean, just look at some of the nonsense that passes for greatness.  It's just another insulated world that became an echo chamber at some point, and it seems more about keeping certain types out than letting anyone in.

I'll tread carefully next because I know we don't do politics here.

Another reason I started with old Dylan instead of baby Dylan is because I tend to loathe protest culture and the hippie/60s ethos in general.  It's just something I find entirely off-putting.  If I ever make it that far back with Dylan, I will have to deal with this on some level.  One of the reasons I likely won't ever see the Dylan movie is because it highlights this part of his career and that moment in American history.

[Queequeg]

I'll tread carefully next because I know we don't do politics here.

Another reason I started with old Dylan instead of baby Dylan is because I tend to loathe protest culture and the hippie/60s ethos in general.  It's just something I find entirely off-putting.  If I ever make it that far back with Dylan, I will have to deal with this on some level.  One of the reasons I likely won't ever see the Dylan movie is because it highlights this part of his career and that moment in American history.

I did not find the movie to be overtly political or expressing any political agenda. It's essentially a character study.
While Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie and Joan Baez are portrayed in the film, it is their personal relationships with Dylon, not their political viewpoints that are examined.
(Not my intention to convince you to see the film. You might not like it at all, but the only real protest on screen that I can recall is when Dylan goes electric in 1965 with his Stratocaster and members of the Paul Butterfield Blues Band: Mike Bloomfield, Jerome and drummer Sam Lay, and also Al Kooper on B3.)

[Silence Dogood]

I did not find the movie to be overtly political or expressing any political agenda. It's essentially a character study.
While Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie and Joan Baez are portrayed in the film, it is their personal relationships with Dylon, not their political viewpoints that are examined.
(Not my intention to convince you to see the film. You might not like it at all, but the only real protest on screen that I can recall is when Dylan goes electric in 1965 with his Stratocaster and members of the Paul Butterfield Blues Band: Mike Bloomfield, Jerome and drummer Sam Lay, and also Al Kooper on B3.)

Thanks for the heads up on this.  One of my boys wants to watch it and I might see it with him.  I think it's streaming free now on some kind of service we have (I can't keep up). 
 

[StringPicker6]

I saw the movie and I liked it. I found it historically interesting with little to no spin, just the facts as they happened. No movie magic, no added drama.  I'd recommend seeing it, I think you will enjoy it and find it interesting. I wouldn't even say there was much political stuff in it, more of the folk scene of New York.

[Gill]

I've loved Dylan's music right from his early folky days right up to Blood on the Tracks,and maybe Nashville Skyline,the collaboration he did with Johny Cash,but everything he did afterwards leaves me a bit cold,I saw him live once,in 78,I wasn't impressed,I've tried to read his Autobiography,Chronicles, but find it to be meandering trivia,no timeline format employed in its writing,making it completely ( to me anyway) unreadable,I'm not on a Dylan downer here,as I still love to listen to his early material,and play it with other musicians.