First time replacing nut and saddle

[jweave69]

    I have a new to me 2004 OM-03R. The action was too low for my taste, so I ordered a new saddle and nut from Larrivee with the intention of having someone else do the work. The guitar tech I used  just shimmed the original bridge and didn't do anything with the nut. The action was too low in the lower frets and too high in the upper. To his credit, he didn't charge me, but I definitely have some string buzz when I try to strum moderately. I want to get this guitar as close to original spec as possible. The saddle is pretty straightforward I know I just file it down  but the nut definitely seems tougher with the slots. Any chance I won't need to file the slots at all? I do have feeler and caliper gauges. Any advice or good instructional videos would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
   

[jpmist]

I hope you've factored in the possibility that humidity changes this time of year may be factoring in how your action presents. I mention that because by later next summer the action will change again but your saddle wont? Rereading, since the saddle was just shimmed, then you can always remove it if needed.

Others may pitch in the pros and cons on my next suggestion to consider tweaking the truss rod a bit to see if that doesn't improve things. Loosening it will raise the nut giving you a higher action and slightly more string clearance for the lower frets.

As far as home nut slot adjustments, the dilemma here is if it makes sense to invest nearly $100 in proper nut slot files or go the way I've done and get the cheapo acetylene torch files you can find in any auto parts store for 5 bucks. Not terribly sharp, they will take twice as long to file, which is kind of a mixed blessing making it harder to file too deep. The smaller files for the E and B strings are useless being too thin so that's where a narrow jigsaw blade comes in handy.

I highly recommend checking out this site on checking your nut slots. Plus this is a great site for home luthiers.   http://frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/GenSetup/NutAction/nutaction.html

If you're new to Larrivee, I also suggest reading the Care & Maintence page on Larrivee's web site. It's a great primer on humidity changes and keeping your guitar in good shape  https://www.larrivee.com/pdfs/Larrivee%20Care%20Maintenance.pdf

Congrats and best of luck with your new Larrivee

[jweave69]

If you're new to Larrivee, I also suggest reading the Care & Maintence page on Larrivee's web site. It's a great primer on humidity changes and keeping your guitar in good shape  https://www.larrivee.com/pdfs/Larrivee%20Care%20Maintenance.pdf

Congrats and best of luck with your new Larrivee

Not new to Larrivee, but it has been a few years! Humidity here is not too extreme and I use the humidipacks to keep it close. The guitar did come from Florida, so I'm sure the humidity change has at least been some of the issue. When I press the third fret and check the distance at the first fret, there's practically no clearance at all so I know the nut is too low. The saddle is low because there was previously a crappy piezo pickup that I took out. I really don't love the idea of shims, especially when you go through the trouble of buying an actual bone saddle! Thank you so much for the information, the website and the idea for a cheaper set of files! And yes, I need actual prayers (beyond luck) to make this happen...

[jpmist]

jweave69 -  When I press the third fret and check the distance at the first fret, there's practically no clearance at all so I know the nut is too low. The saddle is low because there was previously a crappy piezo pickup that I took out. I really don't love the idea of shims, especially when you go through the trouble of buying an actual bone saddle!

I have several Larrivee's I've adjusted with nut slots that low and they play fine, but then I have to add, I seldom play without a capo so there's that. EDIT - one thing that occurred to me if you're still on the fence is a sort of patch technique where bone dust (or tusk dust, or plastic dust - whichever is your original nut) is added with a drop of superglue, then shaped, filed and polished. It might seem like a lazy hack but I read of luthiers using it routinely. When all you really need to do to keep the nut functional is touch up one slot 2 or 3 tenths of a millimeter it seems like a reasonable option.  More here - https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415437

Man, am so with you on ripping the piezo out. I loath them and I would have done the same in a heartbeat. You'll do fine on adjusting the new saddle. The Frets.com site likely has pics and info on that. Last time if I recall correctly I was using 80 or 100 garnet type sandpaper (not micromesh or wet sanding stuff) on a glass slab for the bulk of the reduction then a finer grade as I got close to my mark. I assume you got the compensated saddle, because doing intonation adjustments on a saddle is pretty tedious to get correctly.

Best of luck with it!

[unclrob]

Check the relief before you do anything.The weird weather the last few months in fla has done some crazy things to a lot of guitars.In the past few weeks I have adjusted 6 guitars that had the same issue as your guitar.

[jweave69]

Check the relief before you do anything.The weird weather the last few months in fla has done some crazy things to a lot of guitars.In the past few weeks I have adjusted 6 guitars that had the same issue as your guitar.

Yeah the relief is what I checked when it came back from the guitar tech and that's what started me on this journey. It was definitely not at spec and like I said I was starting to get buzzing. Thank you so much and I will keep an eye on it more since starting to get colder!

[jweave69]

jweave69 -  When I press the third fret and check the distance at the first fret, there's practically no clearance at all so I know the nut is too low. The saddle is low because there was previously a crappy piezo pickup that I took out. I really don't love the idea of shims, especially when you go through the trouble of buying an actual bone saddle!

I have several Larrivee's I've adjusted with nut slots that low and they play fine, but then I have to add, I seldom play without a capo so there's that. EDIT - one thing that occurred to me if you're still on the fence is a sort of patch technique where bone dust (or tusk dust, or plastic dust - whichever is your original nut) is added with a drop of superglue, then shaped, filed and polished. It might seem like a lazy hack but I read of luthiers using it routinely. When all you really need to do to keep the nut functional is touch up one slot 2 or 3 tenths of a millimeter it seems like a reasonable option.  More here - https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415437

Man, am so with you on ripping the piezo out. I loath them and I would have done the same in a heartbeat. You'll do fine on adjusting the new saddle. The Frets.com site likely has pics and info on that. Last time if I recall correctly I was using 80 or 100 garnet type sandpaper (not micromesh or wet sanding stuff) on a glass slab for the bulk of the reduction then a finer grade as I got close to my mark. I assume you got the compensated saddle, because doing intonation adjustments on a saddle is pretty tedious to get correctly.

Best of luck with it!

I totally forgot about the bone dust trick I do remember reading that a few years ago! I'll definitely check that out since I'll have bone dust leftover from the saddle. Thank you 🙏🏼

[jweave69]

Started sanding down the new saddle, when I found out I should be working on the new nut first. That being said, jpmist, can you send a link with an example of the acetylene torch files you were talking about? Not 100% sure after trying Google

[jweave69]

Check the relief before you do anything.The weird weather the last few months in fla has done some crazy things to a lot of guitars.In the past few weeks I have adjusted 6 guitars that had the same issue as your guitar.

Adjusted relief to .008 before starting. Just watched your pinned video. Sure wish you were in my area...I wouldn't bother trying to do this myself! Curious about your opinion on testing string height for the nut adjustment. I'm capoing on 3 and checking the string height on 1. Thanks in advance for any expertise you could share!

[unclrob]

I use a credit card both in front and behind the nut this is case you slip and drive the tool into the headstock.On the neck side I file down to just above the card  then check string by string and file as needed always tuning the guitar to check the feel.I don't measure anything its by feel and sight after 58 years it woks for me.

[jweave69]

     So while removing the old nut, I managed to splinter the ebony on the headstock.   I guess either I didn't score it enough before removal, or took some bad advice on how to remove. Either way, I am now sad. I guess there's not much I can do to make it look any better(?). Well, the good news is I have no intentions of saying goodbye to this guitar, so I don't have to worry about losing resell value.
     On another note, the new nut (from Larrivee store) came pre-slotted and the slots look very close to the old one. I think I'll just need to sand down the bottom about .2mm-.4mm taller than the old one, and I should be good. I don't think the old one is original because it looks like a different material and has two holes on bottom. Everything including the bridge pins are colored this dark beige color. Just gotta get white bone bridge pins to match the new stuff!   

[B0WIE]

There are fixes, but I'd let them be as it would take a lot of experience to be able to make it invisible. Learning while you go will leave other issues and then you're chasing your tail.

 Regarding slot height, IF the nut is in the ideal spot, you can use the frets for reference. But, it often isn't, so going by the frets can mess up the intonation a touch. I recommend you reference the tuning as you take it down. Most don't do this but I feel it can help. If you end up with a situation where the ideal tuning has the slot uncomfortably high (because the nut is slightly closer than it needs to be), you can cut the slot back a little (father away from the nut) to make a lower nut without losing pitch.

[jpmist]

jweave69  -  So while removing the old nut, I managed to splinter the ebony on the headstock. Either way, I am now sad. I guess there's not much I can do to make it look any better(?).
 
I don't think the old one is original because it looks like a different material and has two holes on bottom. Everything including the bridge pins are colored this dark beige color. Just gotta get white bone bridge pins to match the new stuff! 

OUCH! That's a heartbreak for sure. I'm sad as well. Perhaps the previous owner glued the nut in, quite unnecessarily. My initial take is a 1" wide sanding block, 200-400 grit initialy to try to lightly bevel out the 1/2" splintered area, then simply get a black permanent marker to stain the wood as dark as it will go. That took about 30 seconds of thought so I'm sure there'll be better suggestions from more knowledgable.

The yellowed nut and bridge pins look to be Graph Tech type "tusq" high density plastic. Their website claims a similar density and performance to bone. However, I hate the icky yellow/brown look of it and have one on my Taylor 322 which I look askance at quite a lot, but not enough to change it out.

Really, really lovely grain & silking of that nicely aged and toned spruce top! Larrivee picks out the prettiest soundboard, IMHO. Live and learn, I guess. Hopefully the end result will be worth it.

[Silence Dogood]

Most anything that's broken can be fixed when it comes to guitars.  If you really want to repair the chip in the ebony, you could get a piece of ebony, sand on it and make quite a bit of dust, and mix it up with some  clear bonding agent to make a repair.  I've seen luthiers do this in person, and we do much the same kind of "feux" work in the shop I work in (not guitars but aircraft).  There are YT videos on doing repairs like this as well.  Best of luck if you decide to repair it yourself.  A good luthier, one who especially excels at finish work, could also fix this with no trouble at all.  Do not despair. 

[jweave69]

jweave69  -  So while removing the old nut, I managed to splinter the ebony on the headstock. Either way, I am now sad. I guess there's not much I can do to make it look any better(?).
 
I don't think the old one is original because it looks like a different material and has two holes on bottom. Everything including the bridge pins are colored this dark beige color. Just gotta get white bone bridge pins to match the new stuff! 

OUCH! That's a heartbreak for sure. I'm sad as well. Perhaps the previous owner glued the nut in, quite unnecessarily. My initial take is a 1" wide sanding block, 200-400 grit initialy to try to lightly bevel out the 1/2" splintered area, then simply get a black permanent marker to stain the wood as dark as it will go. That took about 30 seconds of thought so I'm sure there'll be better suggestions from more knowledgable.

The yellowed nut and bridge pins look to be Graph Tech type "tusq" high density plastic. Their website claims a similar density and performance to bone. However, I hate the icky yellow/brown look of it and have one on my Taylor 322 which I look askance at quite a lot, but not enough to change it out.

Really, really lovely grain & silking of that nicely aged and toned spruce top! Larrivee picks out the prettiest soundboard, IMHO. Live and learn, I guess. Hopefully the end result will be worth it.

Thank you yeah the soundboard has darkened and aged nicely. I think I'm going to let it be and just keep it as a reminder of my stress inducing adventure! I think the new nut is at the perfect height now so I'm happy with that. Still need to lower the saddle a little but I'm going to wait till I change the strings again. Sounds great!

[B0WIE]

Just saw the comment about the old nut not being original. It is. The old graphtec nuts and saddles age to that sort of brown and they have manufacturing marks like the holes in the bottom. Several of my late 90's/early 2000
s Larrivees had nuts that looked like that.

[jweave69]

Just saw the comment about the old nut not being original. It is. The old graphtec nuts and saddles age to that sort of brown and they have manufacturing marks like the holes in the bottom. Several of my late 90's/early 2000
s Larrivees had nuts that looked like that.

Oh ok interesting. Guess I didn't realize my old 04' had graphtec . Of course, I never did any maintenance back then either. I was happy to see that Larrivee had bone in their online shop. Should make it the rest of my life anyway!