Bridge pin question

[teh]

I'm thinking of upgrading the composite bridge pins on my all Mahogany 00-24 to either bone or ebony (which would match the ebony fingerboard and bridge).

I would appreciate any insights, good or bad, from forum members who may have switched out their bridge pins. I value the information and experience that I read about here. Thanks.

[B0WIE]

It CAN make a sonic difference, but won't always. Much of it depends on the fitment of your current pins and the replacements. Some of the finest guitars in the world use bone and ebony so don't feel that you need to buy some exotic material. Also, just because a maker charges a lot doesn't mean that their pins are necessarily going to fit your guitar better. That said, I'd avoid cheap, Chinese made ones as poor tolerances can lead to bad fitment.

Make sure you buy the correct taper. I feel that ebony is a safe bet as it can conform slightly to imperfections. You can use a scrap of fine sandpaper to make the fit perfect if needed.

[teh]

Thanks for the advice Bowie.

I am looking at the bone and ebony pins available on Larrivee's website and will weigh my options. With the combination of the mahogany top, scalloped bracing and short scale, the projection from the 00-24 is as strong as my spruce/mahogany Martin 12 fret 000.

It just occurred to me that my last three acoustic guitar purchases have all been 12 fret with some variation of scalloped bracing. Two with a 24.9" scale and one with a 25.5" scale. Funny how personal preferences can change.

[tiogajoe]

Hi Teh. I just ordered some Graph tech Tusq pins for my oo-40mh.  I have bone on all my other guitars. 
Some guitars had a noticeable improvement in tone and some not so much.  I ordered the white traditional with black dot. They are supposed to fit Larrivee Guitars.  I will let you know when I get them in.

[StringPicker6]

I bought the ebony pins on the Larrivee website. They look nice but I can't tell if there is a significant improvement in tone. The bottom tip of one of the pins actually broke off, but it's still useable.

[jpmist]

Being the cheap SOB that I am, I was very pleased with the "Blisstime" bone/abalone pins I got thru Amazon. It's listed as "cattle bone", appears nicely machined and the greenish abalone button adds a nice bit of bling.

I went down the google rathole on bone pins a while ago and was astonished to see some offered for well over $50 a set. Mastodon, if I recall correctly (!!!) I suppose bone will have a certain amount of density depending on it's mineral content but it's hard to imagine a +/- difference of a few percent and certainly nothing my poor eardrums will discern.

Blisstime offers rosewood and ebony pins as well and I can confirm they fit Larrivee bridges just fine. This might be a fun experiment at the next string change.

[Silence Dogood]

I have to admit that I'm pretty skeptical of pins making any tonal improvements, but I don't know everything about guitars.  That said, the old plastic pins that came on my Larrivee are in sort of sad shape after all these years.  I might get some replacements soon to see what all the fuss is about.  Some ebony pins would look great on my ebony bridge. 

[tuffythepug]

I made two "upgrades" to my LS-03 Forum III guitar soon after I got it.  Swapped out the tuners for Grover Sta-tite open back tuners and swapped the stock bridge pins for ebony from Larrivee.  Neither of these changes made any difference to the sound of the guitar to my ears.  Tuners were a definite upgrade over the Pings but the bridge pins were simply cosmetic. If you change them out expecting to hear a difference you'll probably be disappointed

[B0WIE]

I have to admit that I'm pretty skeptical of pins making any tonal improvements, but I don't know everything about guitars.  That said, the old plastic pins that came on my Larrivee are in sort of sad shape after all these years.  I might get some replacements soon to see what all the fuss is about.  Some ebony pins would look great on my ebony bridge. 

Changing mass in that area affects the sound. Which is why metal pins usually make a noticeably brighter sound and plastic tend to be duller and less resonant. Fitment has a huge influence as they're sometimes barely making contact and other times directly against vibrating surfaces.

 I think the common expectation of a sonic "upgrade" is a mistake as it's mostly a matter of taste and not a matter of how expensive the material is. That says bone and ebony will usually resonate a little nicer than plastic or tusq so they're always a good idea. Nether is likely to create an overly bright tone like metal can.

[StringPicker6]

My larrivee ebony bridge pins aren't overly bright (and neither am I...) 

[Sandstorm]

I treated myself to the bone pins from the Larrivee proshop for my OM40 mahogany.  The cost isn't too much compared to other things you can spend your money on for guitar tone and I figured the more expensive Larrivees often use bone so I figured I'd give it a shot.

I bought two sets of identical strings and was planning to be rather scientific about it but I never ended up doing a really detailed comparison.  I don't think there was much, if any difference or improvement.  The nice thing about the bone is the sides don't get chewed up like plastic, and the bottom isn't tapered or angled so they seem easier to restring, but that's only because of the shape, not the material.

Without the bottom angled, I often install all the strings in the pins before going through the tuners so I can fit my hand inside the sound hole and under the bridge to see the ball end is snugged up to the pin correctly because without the bottom angled it seems it doesn't slip into place quite as easy as the angled plastic ones.

I think a set of strings can make the most noticable differences in tone vs bridge pins.  80/20, silk and steel, phosphor bronze, hex core, round core, flat wound.

[Silence Dogood]

I agree about strings: different brands, gauges, material, etc, makes a noticeable difference. 

[teh]

Today I took advantage of the Black Friday sale through Larrivee's Pro Shop and ordered a set of black ebony bridge pins for my 00-24 more for visual appeal than for any expectation for improvement in tone. I also bought a black Larrivee hoodie and they are throwing in a set of strings.

[StringPicker6]

I like my Larrivee black ebony pins a lot.  Hopefully yours won't break off at the tip like one of mine did.

[eded]

I haven't been here for a while.  It figures when I drop in, there is the perennial question about bridge pins.  My opinion is that *sonically* mass of the piston is what makes a difference.  Change between plastic and wood (which has basically the same mass) and there is little difference in sound.  Change between plastic and brass (where there is considerable difference in mass) and there is likely more of a difference.  The kicker is, whether that change is for the better or worse is very unpredictable.  I have sat and swapped out pins on several guitars with the same set of brass pins.  On some guitars the sound was louder and more definition.  On others those same pins killed the sound... muted and muffled.  I guess the point is, it is an interesting experiment but I'd never spend a lot of money on a set of pins that might or might not be an improvement.  If it's just looking different... stick with a similar mass and go for it.

Ed

[Queequeg]

I haven't been here for a while.  It figures when I drop in, there is the perennial question about bridge pins.[/b]  My opinion is that *sonically* mass of the piston is what makes a difference.  Change between plastic and wood (which has basically the same mass) and there is little difference in sound.  Change between plastic and brass (where there is considerable difference in mass) and there is likely more of a difference.  The kicker is, whether that change is for the better or worse is very unpredictable.  I have sat and swapped out pins on several guitars with the same set of brass pins.  On some guitars the sound was louder and more definition.  On others those same pins killed the sound... muted and muffled.  I guess the point is, it is an interesting experiment but I'd never spend a lot of money on a set of pins that might or might not be an improvement.  If it's just looking different... stick with a similar mass and go for it. 

Ed

Welcome back, Ed.
The two certainties are
(you thought I was going to say death and taxes)
Always threads here on strings and bridge pins.

[StringPicker6]

Don't forget picks!