D70 Radius/tuning problem

[Tim Chipman]

Hi, I'm brand new here, but not new to my Larivee. It has a tuning problem that's driving me nuts right now. I'll tune it up with a Peterson strobe tuner (very accurate) straight tuning, sweetened tunings, and they all come out with the B string being sharp when playing in the open A position. Also the E string is sharp when playing the open D position. This discrepancy holds true all the way up the neck. I'll mention again it is a D70. By the way an open E chord, and the "E" position sounds great all up and down the neck.
My wife bought the guitar for me in Des Moines, Iowa in 1995. It's still beautiful with an eagle on the headstock. Any ideas?
Also does anyone happen to know what the neck radius would have been in the mid 90's?
Thanks for your help
Tim

[B0WIE]

If only the open string is off, the issue is at the nut. You tune it to the open string and the tuning worsens as you go up the neck, you'd want a custom compensated saddle.

Lastly, if there's just a note here or there then it can be individual frets that are high or low.

[Queequeg]

Hi Tim-
Welcome to the Larrivee forum.

I cannot confirm this but I believe that based upon the age of your guitar that it was built with a compound radius [17-21].

[Tim Chipman]

Thanks for the info. All the open strings tune up fine. An open E sounds great. But an open A chord will find the B string sharp. An open D chord will find the E string sharp. In both cases these are fretted notes. So I should take it to a luthier I'm thinking. I was considering putting an Earvana nut on it to correct the problem, but now I'm not so sure.

[B0WIE]

A nut is unlikely to correct the problem, based on what you're describing. The two spots you mention are the 2nd fret, correct? It's possible for a single fret to lift, or for it to wear on commonly played spots. A tech should be able to find the issue quickly.

[StringPicker6]

Good point, Bowie.  With a guitar that old, are there some divots worn into the first few frets after years of playing the standard cowboy chords?

[Tim Chipman]

Good point, Bowie.  With a guitar that old, are there some divots worn into the first few frets after years of playing the standard cowboy chords?

That's a great point. I can at least check that out myself. I do play a lot and of course those frets get a lot of use. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.  The more I think about this problem the more I think you guys are right. When the guitar was newer I didn't have this problem. Lately in the studio it just drives me nuts!!
Tim

[Tim Chipman]

Also I should add that for instance if you're playing something like Black Bird. You go up the neck fret the A string at the 10th fret, pluck the open G,  and fret the B string at the 12th fret. That B at the 12th fret is so sharp it curls your hair!

[Queequeg]

Tim, do the intonation check.
You know, fret each string at the 12th and compare to the harmonic.

How's the action at the 12th fret?
(Can you measure from the top of the fret to the string?)
Do that on the 1st and the 6th string.

How much saddle have you got above the bridge?
Can you post a picture of that?

[unclrob]

Without having in hand find a good tech and have it gone over.If it hasn't been for a visit to a tech it a long time,its time.If you like check the frets for dibits an flat fret tops.

[Tim Chipman]

Tim, do the intonation check.
You know, fret each string at the 12th and compare to the harmonic.

How's the action at the 12th fret?
(Can you measure from the top of the fret to the string?)
Do that on the 1st and the 6th string.

How much saddle have you got above the bridge?
Can you post a picture of that?

I will do that when I get home today, thanks to all for your help!

[Queequeg]

Without having in hand find a good tech and have it gone over.If it hasn't been for a visit to a tech it a long time,its time.If you like check the frets for dibits an flat fret tops.

Right. That's where this will end up.

[Tim Chipman]

Well the intonation is bad!
Fretted E is sharp
Fretted B is sharp
Fretted G is ok ....not terrible
Fretted D is sharp
Fretted A is sharp
Fretted E is very sharp
These are all comparisons to the harmonic on the 12th fret.
The action is 1.50 millimeters for 1st and 6th string at the 12th fret.I took a picture of the bridge to show the saddle but I can't figure out how to get it on here😬. As far as how the action feels I feel like it could be better or lower but I don't want the buzzing. I've cheaper guitars that play or feel better.If it really does have a 17-21 radius that seems very flat!
I have a Strat with a compound neck that is 10 to 16 . I thought that was flat.

[Tim Chipman]

I should have mentioned that the frets are all dented pretty heavily. The Strat neck I was talking about was a Warmouth neck with stainless steel frets, not a mark after years of playing. A PRS DGT is showing wear after 4 years. Do they ever put stainless steel on an acoustic?

[unclrob]

I should have mentioned that the frets are all dented pretty heavily. The Strat neck I was talking about was a Warmouth neck with stainless steel frets, not a mark after years of playing. A PRS DGT is showing wear after 4 years. Do they ever put stainless steel on an acoustic?

Yes they do a few of the members have  stainless frets

[Queequeg]

Hey Tim-
Electric guitar necks will always have a smaller radius than a steel string acoustic guitar. Just as nylon stringed, classical guitars will be flat or nearly flat compared to steel string acoustics.
Yes, I have a couple of guitars with stainless steel frets, however most acoustics' frets are a nickel steel alloy which are easier to file in order to lever, crown and dress.
Stainless are more common on electric guitars.

The action you posted is decimal inches; not mm which is well within the good range (around 4mm).

As unclrob indicated in an earlier post your guitar is overdue for a trip to a tech for a proper setup and fretwork.

As to posting images here...
You can post images from both PCs and Macs. Not much difference between the two.
NOTE: Click on REPLY.
If you simply begin typing in the empty post space at the bottom it defaults to QUICK REPLY. This can make adding images tricky.
So instead,  click on REPLY.
Then you'll see "Click or drag files here to attach them" at the bottom. (You won't see this option if you're in QUICK REPLY mode.)
.jpgs and .gifs only.

[Tim Chipman]

Hey Tim-
Electric guitar necks will always have a smaller radius than a steel string acoustic guitar. Just as nylon stringed, classical guitars will be flat or nearly flat compared to steel string acoustics.
Yes, I have a couple of guitars with stainless steel frets, however most acoustics' frets are a nickel steel alloy which are easier to file in order to lever, crown and dress.
Stainless are more common on electric guitars.

The action you posted is decimal inches; not mm which is well within the good range (around 4mm).

As unclrob indicated in an earlier post your guitar is overdue for a trip to a tech for a proper setup and fretwork.

As to posting images here...
You can post images from both PCs and Macs. Not much difference between the two.
NOTE: Click on REPLY.
If you simply begin typing in the empty post space at the bottom it defaults to QUICK REPLY. This can make adding images tricky.
So instead,  click on REPLY.
Then you'll see "Click or drag files here to attach them" at the bottom. (You won't see this option if you're in QUICK REPLY mode.)
.jpgs and .gifs only.

I will give that a try. Thanks for all the information.

[Tim Chipman]

here's the shot of the bridge and saddle

[B0WIE]

Perhaps my eyes deceive me, but I'm seeing 3 points of concern;
-No compensation = your intonation will be off.
-Poor break angle causes some strings to lie somewhat flat, which can be a source of buzzing and odd harmonics.
-Saddle has become slotted from string wear, which will exacerbate my 2nd point^.

I feel that a new, proper saddle could do wonders.

[Queequeg]

Perhaps my eyes deceive me, but I'm seeing 3 points of concern;
-No compensation = your intonation will be off.
-Poor break angle causes some strings to lie somewhat flat, which can be a source of buzzing and odd harmonics.
-Saddle has become slotted from string wear, which will exacerbate my 2nd point^.

I feel that a new, proper saddle could do wonders.

Good eye, Bowie.
Haven't seen the frets but dressing and/or crowning and a new compensated saddle will likely restore this to a fine guitar as it should be.