NGD: Larrivee 00-40R with moon wood top

[StringPicker6]

I tried an LV-10E at the shop near me, but the strings were very old because no one wants to pay the $7,000! Sounded excellent nonetheless. The Madagascar back and sides were beautiful.

[guitarman001]

I'll bet!!

So. I need a Madagascar rosewood 12 fret OO. Done ! 

[mike in lytle]

Can someone please explain me the "dream tone"?
Used here related to 12 fret guitars.
Mike

[B0WIE]

Can someone please explain me the "dream tone"?
Used here related to 12 fret guitars.
Mike

 I'm not sure who used that phrase but 12-fret tone, to me, is sweeter and richer. 14 fret designs tend to be brighter and more dry, which is perfect for a more aggressive, biting tone. I think strumming classic rock or country songs (which is what I imagine most people do) sounds good on a 14 fretter. But, that's just not my thing and I find 12 fretters to have a more bell-like quality and sound less nasal when I play fingerstyle. More of a piano-like tone.
That's just my tastes though.

[vchizzle]

I'm not sure who used that phrase but 12-fret tone, to me, is sweeter and richer. 14 fret designs tend to be brighter and more dry, which is perfect for a more aggressive, biting tone. I think strumming classic rock or country songs (which is what I imagine most people do) sounds good on a 14 fretter. But, that's just not my thing and I find 12 fretters to have a more bell-like quality and sound less nasal when I play fingerstyle. More of a piano-like tone.
That's just my tastes though.

I think this thread is the first I heard the term, but I knew exactly what was being referred to. The 12 fretters have a more expansive tone that surrounds you rather than the more cutting tone of a 14 fret that punches you in the face. Granted, it's a generalization and there are always some outliers, but it seems to be pretty consistent with the Larrivee 12 fret guitars in my experience.

[StringPicker6]

My assumption is that it refers to the placement of the bridge closer to the center of the lower bout on 12 fret Larry's.  It's like putting the bridge at the center of a speaker cone, vs. off to the side of center, like the bridge placement on 14 fretters.

[William2]

My assumption is that it refers to the placement of the bridge closer to the center of the lower bout on 12 fret Larry's.  It's like putting the bridge at the center of a speaker cone, vs. off to the side of center, like the bridge placement on 14 fretters.

This bridge placement topic and 12-fret sound interests me. My 12-fret Larrivee SD-40R has a quick easy attack but a decay and less sustain than my D-40R. Sustain is more of a priority for me so I prefer the 14-fret instrument. Attached is a fascinating video put out by Alverez Guitars the explores why this is and demonstrates this sustain difference between a 12 and 14 fret instrument. It makes me wonder if some Makers of 12-fret instruments like Martin leave the bridge where it is on their 14-fret instruments and build the upper bouts up to the 12th fret.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU0K7QjD9N4&t=10s

[B0WIE]

This bridge placement topic and 12-fret sound interests me. My 12-fret Larrivee SD-40R has a quick easy attack but a decay and less sustain than my D-40R. Sustain is more of a priority for me so I prefer the 14-fret instrument. Attached is a fascinating video put out by Alverez Guitars the explores why this is and demonstrates this sustain difference between a 12 and 14 fret instrument. It makes me wonder if some Makers of 12-fret instruments like Martin leave the bridge where it is on their 14-fret instruments and build the upper bouts up to the 12th fret.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU0K7QjD9N4&t=10s

 In my experience, 12 frets does not limit the sustain and it's really about the build. It's possible for 12 fretters to sustain for a ridiculously long time. Too much sustain ruins note separation and creates sonic mud so infinite sustain is definitely not the goal. In the video, his point about the "rigidity" is relevant if the builder does nothing to dial in how rigid they want the top. The amount of rigidity (if we're to believe that's what's controlling sustain) is completely subject to the design. Those Alvarez guitars are super cheap instruments, aren't they? I don't think I'd trust that as a guide.

 My longest sustaining guitars have been 12 fretters, but my best guitars have also been 12 fretters so I can't offer a direct A/B.

[vchizzle]

A video comparing 2 guitars doesn't say much to me, especially to make across the board statements/judgements. The total build and design has more impact in my mind. I'll watch the video this weekend before I say anything more but I think you need to get the whole recipe right. Top thickness, rigidity and bridge placement will all play a part.

[William2]

Well, first let me compliment Stringpicker6 on the new guitar. I've always thought the 12-fret look was aesthetically preferable to me especially when it has the bridge moved lower on the top. For me as a fingerstyle player I loke that it gives me more tonal options between the bridge and sound hole. I agree with Mr. BOWIE that builders can do things to accomplish what they want regarding sustain. But I was just wondering if in a mass-produced instrument this is done. And the idea of the bridge being on top of the braces on 14-fret instrument gives the rigidity for sustain and the bridge being lower on the top and not on the braces gives that open sound with less sustain. It just seemed to make sense. I have both 12-fret models, the Larrivee SD-40R and a Martin 000-15SM. I can't really compare them as they are different top woods. I do feel the Larrivee does offer a sweeter tone that for me can almost mimic the quality of a classical guitar. And it isn't that a 12-fret instrument doesn't have enough sustain.

[Gill]

I'm not sure who used that phrase but 12-fret tone, to me, is sweeter and richer. 14 fret designs tend to be brighter and more dry, which is perfect for a more aggressive, biting tone. I think strumming classic rock or country songs (which is what I imagine most people do) sounds good on a 14 fretter. But, that's just not my thing and I find 12 fretters to have a more bell-like quality and sound less nasal when I play fingerstyle. More of a piano-like tone.
That's just my tastes though.

I would agree with you on every point there,something about a 12- fretter that almost defies proper explanation,a friend of mine who is a far better 'picker than I'll ever be,tried it my Larry OM 12 -fretter recently,he's now gassing badly for one of his own.

[StringPicker6]

All I know is that this 00-40r sounds incredible. I'm in love with it. It's a finger style monster!

[guitarman001]

Uuuggghhhhhh now I want one

[StringPicker6]

DO IT! DO IT!!

[B0WIE]

DO IT! DO IT!!

How can you argue with that^?
Dancing bananas don't lie.

[Rockysdad]

How can you argue with that^?
Dancing bananas don't lie.

Correction, dancing bananas playing guitar don't lie.

[guitarman001]

I need video clips :)

Love the banana

I'm dying to try 50/60 series but I know how good moon tops are so I know this oo40r is tops