Learning Jazzy Chords.

[Silence Dogood]

I've been taking lessons via Active Melody and after all these years (30+!) I'm finally starting to really understand and decipher the fretboard.  His (Brian's) main theme is: Learn to jam, not memorize.  I can tell you for sure that this approach works.

At any rate, in many of his lessons he throws in a jazzy chord here and there. They sound very cool and add a layer that's been missing from my playing from the start: but, man, are they a pain to get my fingers around!  I've been wondering to myself if learning first position chords was this hard back in the day for me?  I have forgotten what that was like and now grabbing those chords is like breathing.

Each night I'm plugging away and the jazz chords are coming along, but still they are tough!  Anyone else experienced this?
 

[Queequeg]

Most of us will recall struggling with that awkward and troublesome F chord when we were starting out. Eventually it became as easy as all the others.
And as to the so called "jazz chords" if I struggle with a reach when my fingers just won't stretch that far, I will reduce that full chord to a triad that I can easily manage (maintaining the important "jazzy" elements such as the 6th or 7th or 9th)  and I can always drop the 3rd or 5th without losing the essence of the chord. This is where playing with the fingers as opposed to a plectrum really comes in handy (as well as lots of other occasions).
And if that's cheating then I'm guilty as charged.

[Silence Dogood]

Most of us will recall struggling with that awkward and troublesome F chord when we were starting out. Eventually it became as easy as all the others.
And as to the so called "jazz chords" if I struggle with a reach when my fingers just won't stretch that far, I will reduce that full chord to a triad that I can easily manage.  This is where playing with the fingers as opposed to a plectrum really comes in handy (as well as lots of other occasions).
And if that's cheating then I'm guilty as charged.

Man, I do the exact same thing!  When a chord is too much of a handful, I'll just grab three of the notes I can get away with in order to still make it sound like the chord I need.  Oft times it ends up sounding even better anyway!  Same with some of the faster licks in the lessons: I'll leave out a note here and there and slightly rephrase the line in order to get it under my fingers.  This is one of the brilliant things about Brian's approach: it gets you to think for yourself on the fretboard and therefore "learn to jam" and improvise. 

[William2]

There are many ways to voice a chord. Some artists like Johnny Smith use close voicing where the chord sounds like it would on a piano. This requires 5 and 6 fret stretches frequently. Other players like Joe Pass do the same chord with inversions of the same notes. I wish when I was young, I had studied jazz guitar and would have had opportunities to play with others in an improvisational setting. That said, when I listen to a lot of jazz players, I think it sounds OK but there is nothing that memorable about it. And then there are a few jazz players that I think always come up with something interesting. The jazz guitarist has a wealth of song book material to work with and the great ones always seem to embellish those tunes to a higher level. For me, I like playing those tunes and make no pretense of being a jazz guitarist. There are many really nice arrangements of the American song book with those harmonically rich chords. And these work really well as solos. I didn't do it often but would occasionally sit in for a double-booked friend. He took the better paying gig LOL. If you have a bunch of these tunes along with some of the cliche requests people give you, this kind of music works well at a restaurant where they want live music as a background for the customers. And for me, it was just paid practice.

[B0WIE]

I only recently started getting into more jazzy chords and two things (that I learned from classical instruction videos) help a lot. First being, go slow and don't slop through it or you will develop bad muscle memory and have a hard time ever getting it correct. Second is one that seems so simple but I've been playing for decades and never realize how big an impact it would make. It is shaping your fingers to the chord as soon as you lift off the previous chord and not waiting until you are about to land. I never realized I wasn't doing this until I heard it explained. Now, my transitions are so much cleaner.

[Silence Dogood]

I only recently started getting into more jazzy chords and two things (that I learned from classical instruction videos) help a lot. First being, go slow and don't slop through it or you will develop bad muscle memory and have a hard time ever getting it correct. Second is one that seems so simple but I've been playing for decades and never realize how big an impact it would make. It is shaping your fingers to the chord as soon as you lift off the previous chord and not waiting until you are about to land. I never realized I wasn't doing this until I heard it explained. Now, my transitions are so much cleaner.

This is very good insight, both parts.  Thanks!

[Silence Dogood]

Reviving and older thread, and why not!
😎

I've found myself again leaning more toward jazzy sounds, particularly on my acoustic.  The driving rhythm of jazz chords really appeals to me, and it works very well on my Larrivee dread.  Lots of folks think they need to go out and get an archtop or a Selmer-style to play jazz, but the guitar you have will do just fine. 

Picking out melodies has always been pretty easy for me once I figure out the key, but those jazz chords are way harder than they look.  Still, I plug away!

[B0WIE]

Agreed about not needing a particular guitar for jazz. Most of what I play now would be categorized at classical and jazz and I really have no desire for an archtop, hollowbody electric, etc. I feel like jazz is more in your technique than your guitar. Granted, I don't play traditional jazz so I may be talking nonsense to some.

[Silence Dogood]

Agreed about not needing a particular guitar for jazz. Most of what I play now would be categorized at classical and jazz and I really have no desire for an archtop, hollowbody electric, etc. I feel like jazz is more in your technique than your guitar. Granted, I don't play traditional jazz so I may be talking nonsense to some.

I think you are correct.  From what I understand, Django played Selmer-style guitars because it's what was available to him at the time.  Later in his (short) life he was playing American guitars.  I'm sure he could have started that whole genre using Martin OMs if he'd had one. 

[Queequeg]

I think you are correct.  From what I understand, Django played Selmer-style guitars because it's what was available to him at the time.  Later in his (short) life he was playing American guitars. 
I'm sure he could have started that whole genre using Martin OMs if he'd had one. 

I think you may be onto something there.
CF Martin began building the 14-fret Orchestra Model (OM) to replace the banjo in jazz bands.

[Silence Dogood]

I think you may be onto something there.
CF Martin began building the 14-fret Orchestra Model (OM) to replace the banjo in jazz bands.

I did not know that but it makes sense.  Seems like the dread shape came along even later?  I've heard people play jazz on OM-style guitars (listen to Julian Lage) and it sounds great (sounds great on a dread too, BTW).  A guy came over some years back to tune up my wife's piano.  He saw my Larrivee in the corner and asked to play it.  He then proceeded to melt the fretboard with some killer jazz licks. 

Django being a gypsy was likely never rich (especially when younger) and would have played whatever guitar he could get.  I happen to think the Selmer-style guitars sound pretty good, but something like Larrivee makes (in any shape) is going to be a lot more versatile, and probably a lot better made.

[Silence Dogood]

Check out this dude laying down some Gypsy Jazz on a Martin dread.  Sounds great.  I think I actually prefer the boomy sound of the larger guitar playing this kind of music over the more punchy sound of a Selmer-style. YMMV.

[William2]

Check out this dude laying down some Gypsy Jazz on a Martin dread.  Sounds great.  I think I actually prefer the boomy sound of the larger guitar playing this kind of music over the more punchy sound of a Selmer-style. YMMV.

Nothing beats a dreadnought LOL!!! Now I know what my last guitar will be, another dreadnought.

[fantex]

Never been a jazz guy but I've been learning some cool jazzy sounding fingerstyle songs from Brooks Robertson's True Fire courses. This song is on his Take 5: Boom-Chick course.