Temporary fix for ball ends of strings pulling up into the bridge plate?

[George]

I don't think oversize pins are going to fix this one.  A couple of the ball ends are disappearing into the bridge plate, so I know it has to be reinforced or replaced.  This guitar uses unslotted 5 degree bridge pins.  I have put my thinking cap on and have pondered over many temporary solutions, none of which I am convinced will actually work...

Suggestions?

[ducktrapper]

I'm not quite sure what you're asking? Pictures?

[George]

I have not figured out how to take good pictures inside the guitar.  The bridgeplate has deteriorated with age and three of the ball ends of the strings are pulling up into the bridgeplate itself, causing the bridge pins to lift as well.  I know the permanent solution is to repair/replace the bridgeplate, but am wondering if anyone has figured out a temporary solution?

[ducktrapper]

I have not figured out how to take good pictures inside the guitar.  The bridgeplate has deteriorated with age and three of the ball ends of the strings are pulling up into the bridgeplate itself, causing the bridge pins to lift as well.  I know the permanent solution is to repair/replace the bridgeplate, but am wondering if anyone has figured out a temporary solution?

Wow. Temporary? Lessen the tension and pray? I'm thinking you'd need to remove and either repair or replace the bridge as you say. Sounds like you have/had a problem with lack of humidity. 

[unclrob]

I wouldn't suggest this but in the last few days I've had to do a few repairs from out of the box of crazy.Get a small piece of maple about a 32" that you can glue into place size to just barely cover just the pin holes on the bridge plate.Using wood glue and clamp in place for 3 days.Remove clamps drill thru the pin hole slightly smaller the the original holes restring and play.Best temp fix that come's to mind.


CAVATE:I must restate that this idea is from the crazy box of I have no money but I need my guitar.This advice comes from an old crazy repairperson who may or may not need to be placed in home for the loonie.

[eded]

Have you looked at the bridgeplate (with a mirror) to see if it is really deteriorated?  I have pins that lift with perfectly intact bridgeplates. 

I can't think of a temporary solution...  I'd take it to a tech and have a new plate put in.

Ed

[George]

I wouldn't suggest this but in the last few days I've had to do a few repairs from out of the box of crazy.Get a small piece of maple about a 32" that you can glue into place size to just barely cover just the pin holes on the bridge plate.Using wood glue and clamp in place for 3 days.Remove clamps drill thru the pin hole slightly smaller the the original holes restring and play.Best temp fix that come's to mind.


CAVATE:I must restate that this idea is from the crazy box of I have no money but I need my guitar.This advice comes from an old crazy repairperson who may or may not need to be placed in home for the loonie.

Not so crazy to me Rob.  I have a thin piece of Wenge that I could use to make a temporary bridge plate out of...

[George]

Have you looked at the bridgeplate (with a mirror) to see if it is really deteriorated?  I have pins that lift with perfectly intact bridgeplates. 

I can't think of a temporary solution...  I'd take it to a tech and have a new plate put in.

Ed

Deteriorated may be too harsh a term.  The bridge plate wood looks normal and three of the pins are not pulling up at all and those ball ends are anchored where they should be.  The three ball ends that are pulling up into the wood right by the pin is the only place where I see damage to the bridge plate and that is where the ball ends are going up into the wood.  This is a 1996 blues guitar with a ladder braced top and there is more than normal belly up behind the bridge, but I cannot see any structural damage with the lighted inspection mirror.

[jpmist]

I don't think oversize pins are going to fix this one.  A couple of the ball ends are disappearing into the bridge plate, so I know it has to be reinforced or replaced.  This guitar uses unslotted 5 degree bridge pins.  I have put my thinking cap on and have pondered over many temporary solutions, none of which I am convinced will actually work...

Suggestions?

I like Rob's idea, but I had this problem with an old Taylor and almost pulled the trigger on a brass bridge plate repair that you can get from Stew-Mac. (Sorry I won't give the link as I despise their obscene prices . . .)

Maybe 10 minutes browsing at a hardware store could turn up some washers you might glue that will fit over the damaged area of the bridge plate but still stop the ball end.

[eded]

I like Rob's idea, but I had this problem with an old Taylor and almost pulled the trigger on a brass bridge plate repair that you can get from Stew-Mac. (Sorry I won't give the link as I despise their obscene prices . . .)

Maybe 10 minutes browsing at a hardware store could turn up some washers you might glue that will fit over the damaged area of the bridge plate but still stop the ball end.

The only thing I'd throw out  there with either of these solutions is that the change in mass will likely have an affect on the tone of the guitar.

Of course, replacing the plate would likely have an affect as well.

Ed

[unclrob]

Yes it could change/effect the tone but almost anything can do that also.The fix I'm suggesting is a temporary fix that could also be the easiest and cheapest fix that may last a life time as it can get costley replacing a bridge plate.

[tlp2]

CAVATE:I must restate that this idea is from the crazy box of I have no money but I need my guitar.This advice comes from an old crazy repairperson who may or may not need to be placed in home for the loonie.

This reads much more like a recommendation than a caveat.

Is it just me? 

[ducktrapper]

I'm curious. "1996 blues guitar"? Is it a Larrivee guitar? Could it be a warranty issue?  

[George]

I like Rob's idea, but I had this problem with an old Taylor and almost pulled the trigger on a brass bridge plate repair that you can get from Stew-Mac. (Sorry I won't give the link as I despise their obscene prices . . .)

Maybe 10 minutes browsing at a hardware store could turn up some washers you might glue that will fit over the damaged area of the bridge plate but still stop the ball end.

Actually, one of the solutions I had been considering actually worked.  I took some string thru ferrules, that you would ordinarily hammer into the back of a string thru electric guitar body, an put the strings through one and pulled it up to the bridge plate.  The pin slipped right in next to it and did not push up.  Similar to the washer idea, it gives greater surface area for the ball to seat against and does not pull up into the wood.  Tuned up it worked fine, but as Ed had mentioned it did impact the tone a little, but so would just about anything else that changes the way the top vibrates...

Upon close inspection, with the guitar unstrung and a larger mirror and brighter light inside, the wear on the bridge plate holes was much more obvious.  The real fix is to replace the bridge plate.

Someone asked if it was a Larrivee.  No, it is a 1996 Bourgeois Blues model guitar with a flat fretboard that was designed for bottle slide playing.  Very few of these were made  It is all Koa all around and does not require a slide to play.  Sounds delicious even with the temporary repair.

The attached photo is not very good and was taken before tension had be applied to the strings.  It looks much better when tuned up...

The guitar is a real beauty, and these photos enlarge in a bigger window when you click on them...

[ducktrapper]

So ... any idea what may have caused this and does Bourgeois not have a warranty that might cover it? 

[jpmist]

I took some string thru ferrules, that you would ordinarily hammer into the back of a string thru electric guitar body, an put the strings through one and pulled it up to the bridge plate.  The pin slipped right in next to it and did not push up.  Similar to the washer idea, it gives greater surface area for the ball to seat against and does not pull up into the wood.

I love seeing folks improv on repairs like this.  I missed that a washer would have to fit over the string pin and still be small enough to hold the ball end back. If memory serves I think I tried to shape a brass light switch cover to fit over the bridgeplate which took forever.

A $24 Stew-Mac brass plate plus $8 shipping might add a whole lot more mass to the soundboard than your ferrules, so good call.

Thanks for checking back, and BTW . . .

[jpmist]

So ... any idea what may have caused this and does Bourgeois not have a warranty that might cover it? 

In my Taylor's case it was poor string changing technique over the 10 years I had it. I wondered why I was seeing long wood splinters inside the guitar. The combination of using a slotted pin and letting the flat side of the "ball" end snug against the slot over time gouges in between the bridgeplate hole and the slotted pin. Fret.com has a good picture of a proper placement. http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/SteelStrings/Stringing/ststringing1.html

I imagine it could happen to any guitar and not something a warranty would cover - it being user error. Having seen the error of my ways, I've slotted my guitar's string holes and am very meticulous that the wider round side of the ball face the string pin.

[George]

So ... any idea what may have caused this and does Bourgeois not have a warranty that might cover it? 

Well, I am not the original owner and just purchased this guitar a short while ago.  Bourgeois warranty does not cover this in my case.  The likely cause is this guitar was tuned to multiple different open tunings that would fit bottle slide style playing.  Some of those tunings put a lot more stress on the top.  This top is ladder braced, not X braced so it is weaker, but supposedly more suited to Blues slide playing.  There is a bit more belly behind the bridge as well.

[George]

In my Taylor's case it was poor string changing technique over the 10 years I had it. I wondered why I was seeing long wood splinters inside the guitar. The combination of using a slotted pin and letting the flat side of the "ball" end snug against the slot over time gouges in between the bridgeplate hole and the slotted pin. Fret.com has a good picture of a proper placement. http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/SteelStrings/Stringing/ststringing1.html

I imagine it could happen to any guitar and not something a warranty would cover - it being user error. Having seen the error of my ways, I've slotted my guitar's string holes and am very meticulous that the wider round side of the ball face the string pin.

I am also making the transition to unslotted pins, they will minimize or delay the wear somewhat...

[ducktrapper]

I am also making the transition to unslotted pins, they will minimize or delay the wear somewhat...

Well, that's a cool solution you came up with.