Guitar Store Disappointment

[homme de fer]

Ever walk into a guitar store to try an acoustic only to find out the setup is so poor on it that it renders it unplayable?

I've been wanting to try a 40 series Larrivee for awhile now to see how it compares to my OM-03MT, L-01, and P-03R. I tried an OM-40 at a Long and McQuaid in Guelph and it was really nice considering the strings were almost black. It made me wonder how it would sound with a new set. I like the sound of a Martin OM-18 and 000-18 but for over a grand less, if I can get a Larrivee that has the same kind of sound I'd be happy.

So visited the L&M in Mississauga to try out their OM-40 and was appalled; the action was rediculously high as to make it unplayable. I can't imagine anyone picking that up and getting a good vibe from it. It's a shame really. Usually my disappointment is reserved for every Gibson I pick up (never tried one that didn't sound dead) but this was by far the worst sounding, worst setup guitar ever.

Has anyone else had that experience?

[unclrob]

You can ask them to change the strings and adjust the neck so that you can play it before you buy.When I worked in retail we were always changing strings and adjusting stock,if there was a different guage they wanted to try we would change the strings for them.

[B0WIE]

Sadly, I think Larrivee factory setups tend to leave something to be desired. I've seen it mentioned here many times and I've been unhappy myself. I disagree about the Gibson thing. They seem to average better. Martin setups are almost decent. Larrivee could certainly improve in this area though. Too bad because they're such nice guitars when the nut and saddle are set right.

[ducktrapper]

Ever walk into a guitar store to try an acoustic only to find out the setup is so poor on it that it renders it unplayable?


Has anyone else had that experience?

Many times although not often with Larrivee, if ever. The solution is easy, however. I wouldn't buy the guitar or any guitar that I didn't love and I would keep on searching.  On the other hand if I was to post every time I played a guitar that did less than impress me, I'd have 20,000 posts.   

[Walkerman]

Sadly, I think Larrivee factory setups tend to leave something to be desired. I've seen it mentioned here many times and I've been unhappy myself. I disagree about the Gibson thing. They seem to average better. Martin setups are almost decent. Larrivee could certainly improve in this area though. Too bad because they're such nice guitars when the nut and saddle are set right.

Set ups are very personal thingys.  A generic setup won't please many, especially if you are talking about folks who are used to having their guitars a certain way.

[B0WIE]

Set ups are very personal thingys.  A generic setup won't please many, especially if you are talking about folks who are used to having their guitars a certain way.

I know you tend to be an apologist for the company for whatever reason but blowing smoke isn't going to make any positive changes. I like Larrivee and hate seeing them miss out on sales. I can't count the number of times I've seen threads online about new Larrivees playing poorly. This thread is another example. As are threads on AGF with people saying "I tried both but bought the Taylor because it played much easier".  A couple of mine were just awful and not even close to having acceptable action or intonation. My SD50 even had rubbing compound from the buffing process in every nook and cranny around the bridge and neck.  That's careless.

Set ups are personal but there are certain things that people generally like, such as comfortable action. Martin, Taylor, and Gibson seen to have a good gauge of what a generic setup should be.  As a fan, I've long hoped that Larrivee would address it as I'm sure they'd sell a lot more guitars.

[Walkerman]

Whatever.

[flatlander]

I guess if I went into a store and found a guitar that really sounded great but the action was really high I'd ask them if they had another lower saddle to slip into it, even give the rod a little turn if needed. Not just to see how it "played" but to check that all the notes play clearly. I have no problem with getting my own set-up after I buy and do so on anything I buy right off. But hard to judge a neck I'm not familiar with when it has very high action. If you're dropping a grand or 2, and seriously interested in guitar, they should do that. If not, you are taking a chance. With that said I love Larrivee necks and would feel a little more comfortable saying "I'll fix that later" But I've played Larrivees for  over 35 years and even then, still.....be nice to have action in decent range. Only bluegrassers like action jacked up that high for volume and that 50's mentality is running thin even in their ranks.

[Riverbend]

When I first saw and played my OM-40 in the local shop the action was a tad high. Both store employees (both are also guitar players) mentioned that they hadn't had a chance to tweak the guitar yet, so with a simple loosening of the strings and a truss rod wrench, the guitar's action was significantly improved. Total time lapse less than 5 minutes. It was time I spent with a very impressive L-03W!  I can't imagine Larrivee sending out any guitars needing drastic work on set up unless someone's tastes are really specialized, which is fine and would then be addressed after purchasing...no matter the manufacturer. In reference to the OP's comments, I would say shame on the store for not addressing the situation.    

[Rdodger300]

I agree with a set up being a personal thing but when you walk in to a shop, L&M particularly, I think the guitars should at least have decent strings and be in tune.i have turned away from many guitars for this reason alone, maybe I'm being a little picky but in comparison you don't see too many dirty cars on a car lot and people sitting in the office playing on cell phones.
Just my rant and 2 cents

[baillieul]

We have a couple very good L&M stores in the Halifax area. Unfortunately, they really don't push a lot of Larrivee product, and are much bigger on Taylor and Martin at the higher end. With the current CAD to USD exchange rates, its amazing they are selling any of this product. Add on our 15% sales tax for good measure. And we are not in the richest end of the country.

Larrivee setups of stocked instruments are not too bad. I play a med/low action and always need a setup done anyway. The L&M stores here have some excellent , knowledgeable employees from the Music Stop days. My biggest gripe is that they only stock L, OM and the occasional parlor.

[AZLiberty]

I have never seen a Larrivee in a store where I thought the factory action was bad.   I do think that switching to Mediums a few years back tends to muffle the sound though.   Some of the newer Martins are arriving with the action so low as to be unplayable though.

On the other hand, I have seen an entire high end acoustic room full of cracked and warped guitars when the humidifier went out at the Scottsdale Guitar Center and they took a week to fix it. 

[flatlander]

I have never seen a Larrivee in a store where I thought the factory action was bad.   I do think that switching to Mediums a few years back tends to muffle the sound though.   Some of the newer Martins are arriving with the action so low as to be unplayable though.

On the other hand, I have seen an entire high end acoustic room full of cracked and warped guitars when the humidifier went out at the Scottsdale Guitar Center and they took a week to fix it. 

Wow. AZ no place to leave guitars out in dry air ey? So did they offer them cheap after that or what?

[rockstar_not]

I have never seen a Larrivee in a store where I thought the factory action was bad.   I do think that switching to Mediums a few years back tends to muffle the sound though.   Some of the newer Martins are arriving with the action so low as to be unplayable though.

On the other hand, I have seen an entire high end acoustic room full of cracked and warped guitars when the humidifier went out at the Scottsdale Guitar Center and they took a week to fix it. 

I was at a GC in PHX area last month and saw that they had the new line of basses from Mitchell in the store.  I'm shopping for a cheaper alternative to an Ibanez SR505 right now.  I really wanted to try out this Mitchell 5 string, but it kept popping and it was clear the jack was loose.  The guitar tech on hand proceeded to open up the access plate then try  to tighten the nut on the jack with a pair of needle-nose pliers which repeatedly kept slipping off.  When he felt he got it tighter (after scratching up the threads) I then noted that one of the pups was dead.  I think his mishandling popped a wire off.  Unlike many, I haven't really had major issues with the local Colorado Springs GC or the Denver area stores.  But I would never trust that store.   It was east of town, just south of Superstition.  Don't know the specific town because in that part of PHX I can't tell if I'm in Chandler, Tempe, Mesa, etc.  It just all runs together.

[flatlander]

I was at a GC in PHX area last month and saw that they had the new line of basses from Mitchell in the store.  I'm shopping for a cheaper alternative to an Ibanez SR505 right now.  I really wanted to try out this Mitchell 5 string, but it kept popping and it was clear the jack was loose.  The guitar tech on hand proceeded to open up the access plate then try  to tighten the nut on the jack with a pair of needle-nose pliers which repeatedly kept slipping off.  When he felt he got it tighter (after scratching up the threads) I then noted that one of the pups was dead.  I think his mishandling popped a wire off.  Unlike many, I haven't really had major issues with the local Colorado Springs GC or the Denver area stores.  But I would never trust that store.   It was east of town, just south of Superstition.  Don't know the specific town because in that part of PHX I can't tell if I'm in Chandler, Tempe, Mesa, etc.  It just all runs together.

I don't know but I have a new song to write now. "Just South of Superstition"

[B0WIE]

Wow. AZ no place to leave guitars out in dry air ey? So did they offer them cheap after that or what?

I don't know what they did in that instance but I've bought several scratch n dent guitars at that store at huge discounts.

[AZLiberty]

I was at a GC in PHX area last month and saw that they had the new line of basses from Mitchell in the store.  I'm shopping for a cheaper alternative to an Ibanez SR505 right now.  I really wanted to try out this Mitchell 5 string, but it kept popping and it was clear the jack was loose.  The guitar tech on hand proceeded to open up the access plate then try  to tighten the nut on the jack with a pair of needle-nose pliers which repeatedly kept slipping off.  When he felt he got it tighter (after scratching up the threads) I then noted that one of the pups was dead.  I think his mishandling popped a wire off.  Unlike many, I haven't really had major issues with the local Colorado Springs GC or the Denver area stores.  But I would never trust that store.   It was east of town, just south of Superstition.  Don't know the specific town because in that part of PHX I can't tell if I'm in Chandler, Tempe, Mesa, etc.  It just all runs together.

That's the new one in Mesa.  Opened last year.  New smaller floorplan.  Acoustic selection is poor.

Phoenix (I-17 and Peoria) is one of the older ones and has a nice selection.  I think it's a "platinum" store.   I bought my Larrivee Parlor there 17 years ago.  Takes care of their stuff.  They have some of those all Myrtle Breedloves in stock.

Tempe (Elliot off I-10) is the best for acoustics and tends to have a lot of nicer used stuff that rotates through.  Seen both Collings and Rainsongs there). Takes care of their stuff.

Avondale is the new smaller format and not interesting.

Mesa is pretty much the same

Scottsdale is an older floor plan, but these are they guys who couldn't figure out how to replace a broken humidifier.  And yes they were offering discounts on the damaged guitars, but not enough of a discount once you factored in the cost of repairs.

[strangeman]

Factory setups generally vary a lot from guitar to guitar, and too frequently are lacking. I would suggest Martin, Taylor, Gibson, and Larrivee are no different.

In my experience, Larrivees frequently suffer from marginal setups, maybe 50% have spotty fretwork, and a small-but-noticeable percentage have bad neck sets. The reality is the Larrivee factory has a daily production quota, in the low 20s if memory serves. That means the neck setter has a few minutes (making a few assumptions, 480 minutes/22 guitars = about 22 minutes per guitar, time multiplied by the number of neck setters) to set a neck, the two setup techs have a limited amount of time to do their thing. All production facilities are this way, the variable being the amount of time allocated to each guitar. Time = money.

In my view, guitar shops have a responsibility to make guitars "presentable" prior to sale. In addition to the issue of production standards, guitars are not static. Wood moves. Tops gain their initial belly after being strung up, environmental conditions cause movement. There is no way to eliminate this. Thus no production techniques or process can relieve shops of the responsibility of inspecting and setting up their stock. A good guitar shop will do an initial inspection and setup on each and every guitar before putting it on the floor. Sadly many shops don't, relying on the factory setup.

When I go to a shop, I check for three things on any guitar in which I'm interested:

(1) Basic Tone: This is, of course, personal reference. In my opinion, most factory guitars...even high-end brands...are overbuilt, and the finish applied too heavily (especially on gloss models, loving the new trend to open pore oil finishes). Granted I'm a picky consumer.

(2) Construction: Neck set, glue joints, neck/fretboard "trueness", fret seating, finish etc.. A good shop will send back guitars with any of these issues. A lesser shop will often hang it for sale, essentially passing the issue(s) to the buyer (often to be dealt with under warranty).

(3) Setup: Nut, saddle, action height, neck relief, fret work, etc. A good shop will correct these issues as part of the initial setup. A lesser shop will hang it for sale, essentially passing the issue(s) to the buyer.


There is a local Larrivee dealer here in the Reno area (the Reno GC does not stock Larrivee) which does not do initial setups. They have an impressive stock of Larrivees, and these guitars present with the typical assortment of issues described above. So do their Martins, BTW. GC's Martins, Taylors and Gibsons are the same way. Though not Larrivee dealers, three examples of shops which do the initial work needed are Gryphon Strings, Harried Music (a local in Chico and Redding, Ca), and Nicholson Music (Folsom, Ca). Rarely a fret buzz, poor action, or construction issue to be found among their stock. If there is an issue found by a customer taking a test drive, they pull it off the floor.

Caveat emptor, YMMV.  

[rockstar_not]

That's the new one in Mesa.  Opened last year.  New smaller floorplan.  Acoustic selection is poor.

Phoenix (I-17 and Peoria) is one of the older ones and has a nice selection.  I think it's a "platinum" store.   I bought my Larrivee Parlor there 17 years ago.  Takes care of their stuff.  They have some of those all Myrtle Breedloves in stock.

Tempe (Elliot off I-10) is the best for acoustics and tends to have a lot of nicer used stuff that rotates through.  Seen both Collings and Rainsongs there). Takes care of their stuff.

Avondale is the new smaller format and not interesting.

Mesa is pretty much the same

Scottsdale is an older floor plan, but these are they guys who couldn't figure out how to replace a broken humidifier.  And yes they were offering discounts on the damaged guitars, but not enough of a discount once you factored in the cost of repairs.

Good to know for future visits to PHX

[mike in lytle]

 
All posts noted.
I hear the thing about factory set ups. Not consistent.
The two L-40M and R I played recently, at the dealer on the same days, had two different setups, the l-40m was a bit higher than the R.
Should not have been that way. Neither was unacceptable, but both would have turned me off if I were not a Larrivee freak.
The L-05 I purchased as my first Larrivee turned out to be a used guitar, with an outstanding set up. The sound and playability sold me right there.
Since I  am a Larrivee freak, if I were a dealer, I would subject every Larrivee to a "house set up", and every guitar would have the same string height at nut and saddle. I think it would give the Larrivees an advantage they deserve.
Just me.
Mike
L-05