For those of you who play/lead worship - music likes/dislikes?

Started by Mikeymac, August 15, 2014, 10:09:04 AM

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I've lead worship or played on worship teams for over 15 years - I just got tossed back into the ring because our young, but very good, worship leader is headed off to college in Chicago. I have a line on someone to fill the position, but I'll be leading the worship team again for a few weeks.

My questions to those of you who play on worship teams:

What styles (go ahead and name songs and artists) of music do you do?

What are your likes and dislikes?

How many of you are doing "freshened up/modernized" older hymns/songs/carols?


Maybe it's my age (56), but I'm pretty weary of a lot of the "Jesus 'n' me, Tee hee hee" songs; I like lyrics that have some depth, content and imagination to them.

I've grown to love a lot of stuff by Stuart Townend (and by extension, his co-writer on many songs, Keith Getty). From Ireland, I believe, and writing some great "new hymns" that I think will stand the test of time. In this clip he talks about the power of telling a story with a song - I think he's onto something. One of his tunes I just discovered that we're going to do this Sunday is "O Church Arise". Nearly every line makes some reference or is a direct quote from scripture - love it! And what a great guitar intro (also used between verses) which just about anyone can play (hint: dropped D).

A couple others - also Irish - who I like are Robin Mark and Cathy Burton. We've been doing her "under the radar" song "The Light of the World" for a couple years now - would that we had the players she does (yes, that's Stuart Townend next to her playing the Bouzouki or Cittern)! I try to add some of the flavor with a ukulele of all things - it actually works!

Too many of todays songs seem to have a short "shelf life" - or maybe that's backward - they seem to end up shelved after strong popularity, then flaming out... tunes like "I Could Sing of Your Love Forever" or "There Is None Like You." Haven't heard those in worship recently, yet they're not THAT old!

More later, but what are some of your preferences/likes/dislikes?  :thumb

2021 C-03R TE left-handed
Larrivee owner since 1992

Mikeymac,

I am 60, have been playing since I was 16.  Got into the "jesus music" of the 1970's with Maranatha Music etc.  After taking off quite a few years to raise 5 kids, I got back into a worship band at my large church 10 years ago.  I will say that the overall quality of worship songs is way better than the old days.  There are a lot of great writers with very good, biblical lyrics now.  We play a large variety of songs, including some of the re-worked hymns.  David Crowder has some great stuff, including a re-do of "Oh For a Thousand Tongues".  Another that comes to mind is "Thou Lovely Source of True Delight", and Chris Tomlin's "Amazing Grace/My Chains are Gone."
Here are some of my favorite artists and some of the songs we do:

Phil Wickham-     1) You're Beautiful   2) Cannons   3) True Love   4)  This is Amazing Grace   5) Divine Romance
Aaron Keyes -     1) Sovereign Over Us
Matt Redman-     1) 10,000 Reasons (Bless the Lord)    2) Holy   3)  Never Once   4) Your Grace Finds Me
Matt Maher_       1) Lord, I need You    2) Your Grace Is Enough  3)  Christ is Risen   
Chris Tomlin -     1) Our God Is Greater    2) Everlasting God    3)  I Lift My Hands   4) I Will Rise    5)  Here I am to Worship
David Crowder-   1) How He Loves Us    2) Oh For 1000 Tongues   3) Glory of it All   4)  You Alone
Jesus Culture      1) Your Love Never Fails   
Brenton Brown-   1) Adoration    2)   God My Rock
Third Day-          1) Your Love Oh Lord     2) King Of Glory  3)  By His Wounds
Jeremy Riddle-    1) Furious    2) Love Came Down
Shane And Shane 1) Before the Throne of God   2)  Yearn
Revelation Song  ( Various Artists)

Hope this helps.  God bless as you rock out for Him.
https://soundcloud.com/247hoopsfan

1971 Yamaha FG200 (My original guitar)
1996 Yamaha DW5S
2002 Yamaha LL500
1990 Goodall Rosewood Standard
2007 Larrrivee JCL 40th Anniversary
1998 Larrivee OM5MT
1998 Larrivee D10 Brazilian "Flying Eagle"
1998 Larrivee D09 Brazilian "Flying Eagle"

Good list there ^^

A couple others - I'm really digging All Sons & Daughters.  Heartfelt lyrics, theologically sound.  Jeremy Riddle is in the Bethel Live worship band - they have some good stuff.  Some other bands to pay attention to:  Desperation Band and Jared Anderson (both from Colorado Springs)

There's several flavors of 'Hillsongs' bands these days.  I like the 'Live' and 'United' versions.  Many times you need a couple of electric guitars to cover their sound.

Here's an invaluable resource for modern worship leading/guitar playing:

www.worshipartistry.com  Spot on lessons which use the actual recording as reference for both acoustic, and lead/rhythm electric guitars.  It's a subscription service 8$ a month, but Jason has a few freebie songs there as well.  He's very much on top of excellent new worship band music.  You could use his site for what's the latest as well typically spiritually deep songs which have legs to them, I think you know what I mean. Here's a full sample lesson: https://worshipartistry.com/sample-lesson

I started a blog on playing as a side-man in worship bands earlier this year - you might find it useful, you might not.  I cover topics from effects order to putting too much value in our instruments to what the purpose of worship music is.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me - I post to start conversations:

www.worshipbandwingman.wordpress.com
2000 L-03-E
2012 Epiphone Nighthawk Custom Reissue
1985 Peavey Milestone
2004 SX SPJ-62 Bass
2008 Valencia Solid Cedar Top Classical
2015 Taylor 414ce - won in drawing
2016 Ibanez SR655BBF
???? Mitchell MDJ-10 3/4 scale dread
???? Squier Danocaster

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By the way, I think it's o.k. for songs to 'flame out' after a period of time, as long as they meet some minimal criteria:

1.  Theologically sound with lyrics that could at least stand the test of time.
2.  Musically easy to sing as a congregation both in range as well as topic.  That means not too much 'me'/'I', and more 'we/us' in the lyrics in my book.  As for range, Chris Tomlin songs, well, they normally have to be transposed down a couple whole steps to get into the range for congregational singing.  This is actually true for most modern worship songs.  We like to hear higher singers on ye olde radio.

There's no harm if you and your congregation aren't singing the same songs 5 years from now.  We need a refresh to have a new appreciation for the gospel and the overall story.  Look at it this way, all of the Psalms were apparently songs - and yet we don't sing from all of them, rather a fairly small number from the 150 - whether in Hymns or in modern worship music.  Many of the Psalms declare to sing new songs, I take this to mean that we should also be creating them, not just copping them from somewhere else.

I find that lyrically, the best modern worship songs follow Pat Pattison's idea of 'the boxes', that is, most songs can have about 3 main ideas in them, with the first idea presented, being able to fit into the 'box' of the 2nd idea, and the first and second ideas being able to fit into the box of the 3rd idea - or are completed in the 3rd idea. 
2000 L-03-E
2012 Epiphone Nighthawk Custom Reissue
1985 Peavey Milestone
2004 SX SPJ-62 Bass
2008 Valencia Solid Cedar Top Classical
2015 Taylor 414ce - won in drawing
2016 Ibanez SR655BBF
???? Mitchell MDJ-10 3/4 scale dread
???? Squier Danocaster

My Sound Cloud

Quote from: rockstar_not on August 15, 2014, 12:52:08 PM
By the way, I think it's o.k. for songs to 'flame out' after a period of time, as long as they meet some minimal criteria:

1.  Theologically sound with lyrics that could at least stand the test of time.
2.  Musically easy to sing as a congregation both in range as well as topic.  That means not too much 'me'/'I', and more 'we/us' in the lyrics in my book.  As for range, Chris Tomlin songs, well, they normally have to be transposed down a couple whole steps to get into the range for congregational singing.  This is actually true for most modern worship songs.  We like to hear higher singers on ye olde radio.

There's no harm if you and your congregation aren't singing the same songs 5 years from now.  We need a refresh to have a new appreciation for the gospel and the overall story.  Look at it this way, all of the Psalms were apparently songs - and yet we don't sing from all of them, rather a fairly small number from the 150 - whether in Hymns or in modern worship music.  Many of the Psalms declare to sing new songs, I take this to mean that we should also be creating them, not just copping them from somewhere else.

I find that lyrically, the best modern worship songs follow Pat Pattison's idea of 'the boxes', that is, most songs can have about 3 main ideas in them, with the first idea presented, being able to fit into the 'box' of the 2nd idea, and the first and second ideas being able to fit into the box of the 3rd idea - or are completed in the 3rd idea. 

Rockstar, these are my thoughts exactly.  The Psalms tell us numerous times to "sing a new song" to the Lord.  This is what keeps our worship fresh.  Plus, as a guitarist, I like the musical challenge of figuring out the songs. I checked out your link to worship artistry.  I have been figuring out all that stuff on my own.  It's nice to see a resource like this.
https://soundcloud.com/247hoopsfan

1971 Yamaha FG200 (My original guitar)
1996 Yamaha DW5S
2002 Yamaha LL500
1990 Goodall Rosewood Standard
2007 Larrrivee JCL 40th Anniversary
1998 Larrivee OM5MT
1998 Larrivee D10 Brazilian "Flying Eagle"
1998 Larrivee D09 Brazilian "Flying Eagle"

Quote from: 247hoopsfan on August 15, 2014, 02:55:51 PM
Rockstar, these are my thoughts exactly.  The Psalms tell us numerous times to "sing a new song" to the Lord.  This is what keeps our worship fresh.  Plus, as a guitarist, I like the musical challenge of figuring out the songs. I checked out your link to worship artistry.  I have been figuring out all that stuff on my own.  It's nice to see a resource like this.

Worshipartistry.com is great and Jason seems like a nice guy.  If you don't mind, take a peek at my blog for worship band guitarists, Worship Band Wingman and let me know what you think.
2000 L-03-E
2012 Epiphone Nighthawk Custom Reissue
1985 Peavey Milestone
2004 SX SPJ-62 Bass
2008 Valencia Solid Cedar Top Classical
2015 Taylor 414ce - won in drawing
2016 Ibanez SR655BBF
???? Mitchell MDJ-10 3/4 scale dread
???? Squier Danocaster

My Sound Cloud

Just getting back into playing myself last year, I asked for some help with worship music ideas. This forum's fine members came through for me admirably with many great ideas and suggestions. Our church is what could generously be called "aging". At 57 years old, my wife and I are in the younger age group. But that hasn't stopped our music from voyaging into some newer offerings, though we do mix in some old tried and true. Two weeks ago it was myself joined by a fiddle playing friend and fellow congregant, my son, and a friend in town for our annual party. We played "I Saw the Light", "Calling All Angels" (Train) and "Finally Home" (Mercy Me) at our summer in-the-park service. Really fun stuff that was received very well. Last week three of us from church did "10,000 Reasons." This week our self appointed summer music director (who only schedules) will play songs on the keyboard that are mostly 300 years old and nobody knows, nor can they sing. We have a serious problem with music direction at our church. We have a new pastor who's musical and will hopefully take the lead, because music can be such an important ingredient to worship. What's a little scary is that our new pastor also supposedly plays...God help us...the BANJO!   
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I've debated whether or not to post in this thread, whether it would be helpful or not, etc.  But the title is about likes and dislikes.

I want to chime in on this because I know I'm not alone here.  I've played in church for the past 15 years or so on and off, and I'm currently the main music guy in our congregation.  And I don't like any worship music.   None.  To me the entire genre is bland and anything but inspiring.   Musically, it usually just cops whatever sound is popular at the moment; but the lyrics are usually what I find so uninspiring.   Words like "holy" and "worthy" are scattered in almost every song.  I get it.  But it's almost like filler at this point.  To me it's as predictable as it is dull.  

But most of all, as a man, I find it to be very feminized and, well, "sappy."  That's not a jab at women, but I'm a man and I just don't think the same or relate to the idea of deity the same as a female.   That's ok, but it seems that the worship genre leans more toward the feminine side.  That doesn't leave much room for men who want to feel and think like men in such a context.  

Please don't think I'm just slamming the genre.  I'm not.  I realize there are some very talented people involved, etc.   It bothers me that I dislike it all so much.  I've tried to like it, but I just don't, and I've given up the fight.  I show up and play, but I don't enjoy it.  Haven't in many, many years.   I know a lot of other men must feel like this too.    

My only experience with playing "worship" music goes way back to late 60s, early 70s when, as a young teen I played in our local catholic parish "folk masses".  There were very few songs to choose from back then.  It was something new and fresh, at least for the Catholic Church.  I quit attending formal  church or worship services of any kind many, many  years ago.

Both my daughters and their families are very involved in today's worship services, however, and they typically have their car radios tuned to the stations that play worship music.  I'm like you, creature, in that I don't find any inspiration from the music in a religious context.  I do appreciate some of the instrumentation, recording and production values of the recorded songs I've heard on the radio.  After awhile, they all sound the same to me though.  Good old gospel music, which has a much longer history; now that's something I could get excited about.  Again, not so much for it's inspirational or religious value, but for the music itself and the enthusiasm expressed and inspired by the performance.

Probably another topic, but I don't get why all this seeking of perfection in the music being performed during an actual worship service, church service, or whatever you want to call it, has so much importance.  Isn't the worship service itself and the message of the sermon or whatever that is really important?  Maybe that's why I've become so disillusioned with formal religion and church-going in general.  It's almost like you have to have the best music, and sound system to attract more people to come to your congregation over another???

I mean no disrespect, just my observations.
"Badges?  We don't need no stinkin' badges."

Became a Shooting Star when I got my 1st guitar.
Back in '66, I was 13 and that was my fix.
Still shooting for stardom after all this time.
If I never make it, I'll still be fine.


:guitar

Quote from: the creature on August 15, 2014, 08:05:56 PM
I've debated whether or not to post in this thread, whether it would be helpful or not, etc.  But the title is about likes and dislikes.

I want to chime in on this because I know I'm not alone here.  I've played in church for the past 15 years or so on and off, and I'm currently the main music guy in our congregation.  And I don't like any worship music.   None.  To me the entire genre is bland and anything but inspiring.   Musically, it usually just cops whatever sound is popular at the moment; but the lyrics are usually what I find so uninspiring.   Words like "holy" and "worthy" are scattered in almost every song.  I get it.  But it's almost like filler at this point.  To me it's as predictable as it is dull.  

But most of all, as a man, I find it to be very feminized and, well, "sappy."  That's not a jab at women, but I'm a man and I just don't think the same or relate to the idea of deity the same as a female.   That's ok, but it seems that the worship genre leans more toward the feminine side.  That doesn't leave much room for men who want to feel and think like men in such a context.  

Please don't think I'm just slamming the genre.  I'm not.  I realize there are some very talented people involved, etc.   It bothers me that I dislike it all so much.  I've tried to like it, but I just don't, and I've given up the fight.  I show up and play, but I don't enjoy it.  Haven't in many, many years.   I know a lot of other men must feel like this too.    

I sing to the Lord for His pleasure, it's for His pleasure and honor.  I truly hope you can find a place and way to worship and praise the Lord.  Singing and worship should be a joy.

I sincerely wish I could help you in some way...

Please remove my post if you feel you must, Mods...


I get what's being said about lots of uninspiring music in the worship genre. But I personally also have been able to find a lot of really great music as well, old and new. From the pure fun of playing "I'll Fly Away", to the more somber "By the Mark", or "Three Rusty Nails", to some of the newer stuff by bands like Need to Breathe and their song "Multiplied", my music partner and I are having a difficult time choosing which songs to play when it's our turn. And most importantly, the songs are doing what they're supposed to do, which is to bring people to a good place through song. And without all the "thee-ing" and "thou-ing" and other ancient wording that fills the traditional hymnals. We attend a Methodist church mostly because we don't have many choices where we live, and so I can only speak towards the Methodist hymnal when I say that I don't really understand the sacred status they give some of the songs. Absolutely horrible stuff, musically and lyrically speaking, but it's as though they are supposed to be above reproach because they're in a hymnal and are thought of as traditional. But it does give me at least a bit of appreciation for how difficult it is to become a NEW traditional song, because there's also a ton of crap being turned out these days, as well, and it'll never make it into some hymnal someday. It's not like there was a top 40 of puritanical worship music in the 1700's-1800's to choose from, like there is today, but it's almost as if the covers of the hymnals are sealed shut against any updates. I'm very thankful that I'm at least given free reign to choose music when my turn rolls around, and the vast majority of folks in our small church have expressed a desire to move away from the old hymnal music. We're waiting to see what the new pastor has in mind, but I'm guessing things will stay pretty much the same.           
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Larrivee A-33 (8/21/2009)

rockstar_not sent me a heartfelt PM about this, which I appreciated. I'll respond here and also to the post directed at me above.  It's not that I'm hard-hearted toward modern worship music: I just genuinely believe it sucks, stylistically.  I didn't have to warm up to the Bible or the Gospel; I was drawn to it.  It had nothing to do with relevance (a weary concept at this point) or my tastes.   And I'd take old music with Thees and Thous any day over a prom song to Jesus with all the typical emotional musical trappings.  I just don't get how the answer is to encourage people to embrace mediocrity.  I understand that it's "not about me."  That's obvious.  If it all comes down to preference, which I guess it does, any discussion on the matter is really pointless.  Just realize that modern worship music is a fad that will pass like all other fads. The superior attitudes I've seen by those who enjoy it towards anything "old" will also be held about the current crop of "standards" one day.  I don't believe as a Christian I'm obligated to enjoy modern worship. And I stand by the charge that it's unmanly and overly feminine.

Music is always subjective, whether pop, folk, rock, or worship.  Everyone has different tastes, that's why there are so many different genres.  Few things get the old saints riled up more than choice of music.  Since I helped usher in the guitar to my old church when I was a teen, I have tried to appreciate all kinds of worship music.  To Creature's comments about overuse of words like holy, and worthy, I don't notice that in most of the songs we do.  We do sing Revelation Song, which does use "holy" a lot, but the living creatures in Revelation say "holy, holy" 24/7/365, along with "Thou art worthy".  I do agree that some songs can be lyrically/theologically vapid...songs like "I Could Sing of Your Love Forever" come to mind.  Repeating the same phrase over and over gets pretty boring. 

Creature, you may like some of David Crowder's songs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvLl9rSHga0
"He came here for the rescue of us all".  I find a lot of his songs refreshing and different with well thought out lyrics.
https://soundcloud.com/247hoopsfan

1971 Yamaha FG200 (My original guitar)
1996 Yamaha DW5S
2002 Yamaha LL500
1990 Goodall Rosewood Standard
2007 Larrrivee JCL 40th Anniversary
1998 Larrivee OM5MT
1998 Larrivee D10 Brazilian "Flying Eagle"
1998 Larrivee D09 Brazilian "Flying Eagle"

Tried to like Crowder but couldn't connect with it.   I also don't see how the words "holy and worthy" being used in the Bible give license for songwriters to toss them in anywhere a word is needed.  This is the opposite of creativity.  And whether the creatures in Revelation use the ACTUAL words Holy, holy, holy over and over again is highly debatable.  We are talking about a realm where human words fail and the ones used to describe it fail as well. Same goes for thrones and crowns and all the other imagery there.  We can go back in the world's history and see where such things have their earthly origin. I don't believe it's literally true in the scriptures but it's the best our imagery can do. That's not really about worship music but it's one of the reasons I don't buy the idea of tossing in those words when it's really just a license for laziness, IMO.

I appreciate the time everyone has taken to reply here, and I appreciate EVERYONE's thoughts and points of view - I want to respond them over the next few days - however, being a pastor, I'm spending some time today finishing up getting ready for tomorrow ... and as I mentioned, I'm also filling in as "worship leader" for a few Sundays, which has created some extra responsibilities...

But thanks for everyone's input, song suggestions, and even the more critical feedback - I can agree with most of it, and want to explore it some more.

Keep the conversation going, and I'll be back at it on Sunday or Monday (my usual "day off").

BTW, our worship set for this Sunday/August 17:

Cannons (Phil Wickham)
Joyful (Brenton Brown & Jason Ingram)
Jesus Messiah (Daniel Carson, Chris Tomlin, Ed Cash, Jesse Reeves)
O Church Arise (Keith Getty & Stuart Townend)

Oh, and I'll be leading worship with my Larrivee C-10.

:donut :coffee :donut2 :coffee
2021 C-03R TE left-handed
Larrivee owner since 1992

Whether or not modern worship music is a fad is a matter of debate.  When did this era start?  I remember when our church started to combine 'choruses' in with hymns.  That would have been in the mid-late 1980's, or nearly 35 years ago.  Some argue that it started in the 70's with the Jesus People movement in the late 1960's when the burgeoning folk scene birthed a whole bunch of copycat folk-inspired worship choruses and songs.  That's 45+ years ago.

Some argue that it goes back over a hundred years, maybe longer than that, when songs like "We Praise Thee O God" was actually supposedly a Dutch tavern song,  song to which spiritually inspired lyrics were adapted years and years later.

I love hymns that translate well to modern times for the not yet believers in our congregation.  Just a couple of weeks ago, we did a hymn but I had trouble with some of the lyrics because they just have no meaning in today's vernacular.

"My anchor holds within the veil" was one of the lines - taken from Hebrews 6:19, but quite a bit out of context and incredibly confusing to one without a Bible history degree to understand the origins.  There's another line in the song, "I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus' name".

To use this song, should actually require a sermon on it - to explain both of these lines, in context of the theology behind them - because they cannot stand on their own.  They are as a result empty, although perhaps familiar and as a result comforting words.

This is from the hymn, The Solid Rock.  It's also found it's way into a modern worship song, Cornerstone.

I don't think we should sing either one - old or modern - without explanation of these confusing phrases.  If you just type in "I dare not trust the sweetest frame" into Google, you will find pages of links to people trying to explain these words.  Our songs should have timeless lyrics which are clear and do not need a lesson in theology to explain some fine point of Christian theology.  They should also be easy to sing from a range and rhyme standpoint.  I have trouble with some Crowder songs because he can stray from these well established group-singing rules of thumb to phrases which do not roll off the tongue easily by groups of singers.

-Scott

2000 L-03-E
2012 Epiphone Nighthawk Custom Reissue
1985 Peavey Milestone
2004 SX SPJ-62 Bass
2008 Valencia Solid Cedar Top Classical
2015 Taylor 414ce - won in drawing
2016 Ibanez SR655BBF
???? Mitchell MDJ-10 3/4 scale dread
???? Squier Danocaster

My Sound Cloud

Quote from: 247hoopsfan on August 15, 2014, 11:35:31 AM

Here are some of my favorite artists and some of the songs we do:

Phil Wickham-     1) You're Beautiful   2) Cannons   3) True Love   4)  This is Amazing Grace   5) Divine Romance
Aaron Keyes -     1) Sovereign Over Us
Matt Redman-     1) 10,000 Reasons (Bless the Lord)    2) Holy   3)  Never Once   4) Your Grace Finds Me
Matt Maher_       1) Lord, I need You    2) Your Grace Is Enough  3)  Christ is Risen   
Chris Tomlin -     1) Our God Is Greater    2) Everlasting God    3)  I Lift My Hands   4) I Will Rise    5)  Here I am to Worship
David Crowder-   1) How He Loves Us    2) Oh For 1000 Tongues   3) Glory of it All   4)  You Alone
Jesus Culture      1) Your Love Never Fails   
Brenton Brown-   1) Adoration    2)   God My Rock
Third Day-          1) Your Love Oh Lord     2) King Of Glory  3)  By His Wounds
Jeremy Riddle-    1) Furious    2) Love Came Down
Shane And Shane 1) Before the Throne of God   2)  Yearn
Revelation Song  ( Various Artists)

Hope this helps.  God bless as you rock out for Him.


Thanks for this list, hoops. I'm familiar with many of these, of course, I'll check out the others soon.

Quote from: rockstar_not on August 15, 2014, 12:07:39 PM
Good list there ^^

A couple others - I'm really digging All Sons & Daughters.  Heartfelt lyrics, theologically sound.  Jeremy Riddle is in the Bethel Live worship band - they have some good stuff.  Some other bands to pay attention to:  Desperation Band and Jared Anderson (both from Colorado Springs)

There's several flavors of 'Hillsongs' bands these days.  I like the 'Live' and 'United' versions.  Many times you need a couple of electric guitars to cover their sound.

Here's an invaluable resource for modern worship leading/guitar playing:

www.worshipartistry.com   

Here's a full sample lesson: https://worshipartistry.com/sample-lesson

I started a blog on playing as a side-man in worship bands earlier this year - you might find it useful, you might not.  I cover topics from effects order to putting too much value in our instruments to what the purpose of worship music is.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me - I post to start conversations:

www.worshipbandwingman.wordpress.com


Thanks, rockstar_not - checked out your blog - well written. I'll check back in there, and hopefully comment occasionally. I'll check out the other site soon as well.
2021 C-03R TE left-handed
Larrivee owner since 1992

Quote from: rockstar_not on August 15, 2014, 12:52:08 PM
By the way, I think it's o.k. for songs to 'flame out' after a period of time, as long as they meet some minimal criteria:

1.  Theologically sound with lyrics that could at least stand the test of time.
2.  Musically easy to sing as a congregation both in range as well as topic.  That means not too much 'me'/'I', and more 'we/us' in the lyrics in my book.  As for range, Chris Tomlin songs, well, they normally have to be transposed down a couple whole steps to get into the range for congregational singing.  This is actually true for most modern worship songs.  We like to hear higher singers on ye olde radio.

There's no harm if you and your congregation aren't singing the same songs 5 years from now.  We need a refresh to have a new appreciation for the gospel and the overall story.  Look at it this way, all of the Psalms were apparently songs - and yet we don't sing from all of them, rather a fairly small number from the 150 - whether in Hymns or in modern worship music.  Many of the Psalms declare to sing new songs, I take this to mean that we should also be creating them, not just copping them from somewhere else.

I find that lyrically, the best modern worship songs follow Pat Pattison's idea of 'the boxes', that is, most songs can have about 3 main ideas in them, with the first idea presented, being able to fit into the 'box' of the 2nd idea, and the first and second ideas being able to fit into the box of the 3rd idea - or are completed in the 3rd idea. 

Good perspective in your comments, here - thanks.

I guess I agree that it's okay for songs to flame out / come and go. Some may end up being classics that have staying power. Others, while popular for a season, won't.

I'm curious as to what results in the staying power of some songs... I suppose part of it is the song's ability to transcend "styles" or "generation specific imagery" or language that might soon render it either anachronistic or irrelevant. (See the thread about political songs that last versus those that don't.)

I think there are some great worship songs - I'd prefer to think of them as "new hymns" or "new Psalms" - being written today that never gain widespread use or popularity, and that's a shame. Because without widespread use or familiarity, I doubt they'll become the long-lasting classics they deserve to be.

On another forum, someone asked why Strats, Tele's and Les Pauls (and even 335's) are the most copied guitars today. And the bottom line really is the success of the original instrument - everyone copies success; no one copies failure.

So ... what is it about worship songs/hymns/psalms that have staying power that might be "copied" by others in order to write powerful, lasting worship music?
   
2021 C-03R TE left-handed
Larrivee owner since 1992

Pierce Pettis has some great songs that would work very well in worship settings. And of course. Pettis' main inspiration, Mark Heard. Also a lot of Dave Carter and Tracy Grammer's stuff would be perfect. Great songs as well as great inspirational songs.

http://www.mmreview.com/ronsfolkchords/daveandtracy.htm

CROSS OF JESUS - Dave Carter

Capo II

(C)He's a motor(F)cycle (C)preacher, he's a seeker (F)and a (C)teacher
And he says the faithful shall not want for (G)anything
When the (Dm)good lord come to (G)take us where the (Dm)big sky meets the (G)Pecos
And the flowers bloom and grow in ever(C)lasting spring

And he's (F)bustin loose and breakin even
Glory-bound and true-believin
Ridin down the edge of a switchblade (G)knife
And he (C)speaks the (F)truth that (C)frees us
And he moves on (F)when he (C)pleases
And he wears the cross of (Am)Jesus as he (G)wanders through this (C)life

She's a (C)waitress (F)and a (C)mother, she the keeper (F)of her (C)brother
She's a patient force of nature livin in a (G)double-wide
And she (Dm)used to be a (G)dancer, now she (Dm)says she knows the (G)answer
'Cause she loves the lord and she keeps the cove(C)nant inside

And she's (F)bustin loose and breakin even
Glory-bound and true-believin
Dancin down the edge of a switchblade (G)knife
And she (C)speaks the (F)truth that (C)frees us
'Cause she knows us (F)when she (C)sees us
And she wears the cross of (Am)Jesus as she (G)wanders through this (C)life

Now I'm (C)only (F)a be(C)ginner, I'm a helpless (F)mortal (C)sinner
I'm a self-reflectin derilectin (G)also-ran
But I'm a (Dm)tender of the (G)fire, and I'm (Dm)merciful with (G)liars
And I think I've had a vision of the (C)promised land

And I'm (F)bustin loose and breakin even
Glory-bound and true-believin
Livin on the edge of a switchblade (G)knife
And I (C)keep the (F)truth that (C)frees us
And I (C)deal with (F)my di(C)seases
And I wear the cross of (Am)Jesus as I (G)wander through this (C)life
Yes I wears the cross of (Am)Jesus as I (G)wander through this (C)life

I think it's really funny (not) how the mods jump in within seconds if a thread drifts towards politics....even when we all agree that our formative music from the 50s and 60s was very politically oriented.  But let the thread be overtly religious...opps, it is hands off.


6.  Political and Religious Discussion - This is a guitar forum and although we have a Non-Guitar discussion area, Political and Religious discussion is not welcome here.  These topics seem to always lead to problems that this forum does not need or want.  There are many places on the Internet where these topics are welcome.  The LarrivĂ©e Forum is not the place for these subjects.  Posts containing Political or Religious topics or references will be deleted without notification.


Can we get some evenhandedness from the mods.

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