Wide Grain In The Spruce Top

[guitardave]

I have noticed that there is some variability in the "lines per inch" in Larrivee guitars, I assume mainly on the less expensive ones.  I recently bought an L-03R which has, for most of the top, only eight lines per inch.  They are pretty straight, with moderate and consistent silking, but the wide spacing is noticeable.  The wide grain covers probably 80% of the top, and the tightest grain on it is 11 lines per inch, which actually is about an inch wide on each side.  The guitar sounds fine, but I bought it online and am left wondering if a tighter grained top would likely sound better.  Any thoughts on this?  Should I just send it back and get an L-09?

[SongMan]

Hi,
I really don't think grain plays  much factor in overall tone of a guitar. But given a choice, i would choose smaller grain width. FOr the reference, I just counted grain on my L-05. It had over 30 grain per inch on average. I have played few L-03's with much larger grain spacing and didn't think my guitar was too much better if any. If you are very curious, Bring your guitar into a shop with L-09 and compare the two.
I believe it's more guitar to guitar than wood pattern.

[HangFire]

I don't think it matters 09 or 03, I've got two L-03's my main guitar #1 has the wider lines while #2 has a tighter grain pattern with more silking.  They both sound great, my Parlor has the tightest grain pattern with silking throughout.  I don't think ordering an 09 will insure you get the tighter grain pattern, not sure if it makes that much of a difference.

[jwieties]

Generally, in grading woods, the tighter the better.  I am not certain that Larrivee uses grain per inch as criteria for their "premium woods" but I bet they do.  I only say this because most other builders do.  I just counted on my L-09 and it averaged 20 grains/inch with the largest spacing being near the edge at 10 grains/inch (man are we a bunch of geeks or what ;))

That said, I would in no way use that to judge your guitar.  You could easily find an L-09 with 30 grains/inch that would sound like crap next your current L-03.  There have been some pretty cool discussions about similar topics over at APM.  There are a handful of very first class luthiers over there.  They often talk about how some of their best guitars were woods that they had considered sub-par.  If you were building a guitar and had to choose between 2 tops, go with grains/inch.  Now that the guitar is built, go with how much you like the sound and feel of the guitar.  
-josh

[el guitana]

It is true that some consider tighter as better, or that wide gives better bass while narrow gives better treble. My belief is that its more looks and fussiness than anything else. FRETS.com has a section on that:

FRETS.COM IF ALL OTHER THINGS ARE EQUAL, that is, if we're talking about guitars of the same model, size and detail of construction, by the same maker, with the same neck angle, bridge height, top thickness, species of top wood, age, then it appears:

A wide grain top will tend to produce stronger bass response:

That's because there are fewer stiff grain lines so the top is more flexible. From the flexibility comes a lower natural resonant frequency and more easily produced bass notes.

A narrow grain top will have comparatively stronger treble and more subtle bass.

Medium grain top:
Yes, it will tend to have a tonal response that's intermediate as well. Notice also that this particular top has "stripes" of dark and light grain lines. Most of us agree that color uniformity has no real bearing on the "quality" of the top wood. Just a matter of appearance and personal taste.

What should you look for? Take your pick. Play lots of instruments and judge the tone you like for yourself. Bear in mind that business of "all things being equal." If you're going to try to predict the tone based on appearance you'd better be talking about the same model made by the same manufacturer.

Here's the link- it has some goos pictures: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/G...tonewoods1.html

[Ratishna]

Some of the finest sounding acoustic guitars i have ever played had wide-grain and not particularly attractive tops.  Tight grain looks good and generally sounds good.  But that doesn't mean that wide grain sounds bad.

E. Shoaf

[el guitana]

Yeah, my experience also. Did you look at the mandolin picture on the bottom of that FRETS page? He says it sounds great.

[guitardave]

This guitar sounds extremely loud, very open, and pretty bright through the midrange.  I was actually expecting it to be darker.  It sounds huge.  There is no feeling at all of sound coming out of a sound hole, just radiating from the whole body.  It is extremely resonant, with vibrations present all over the body.
I like it a lot.  In fact, I like it so much that it makes me think I should have gotten an L-09 since I think it is going to be a lifetime guitar.
The only thing I don't like is the wide grain cosmetically, although for all I know that is part of what makes it sound huge.  

[el guitana]

That might go with what Frank Ford said at Frets - about the wide grain adding bass presence. You have to be happy with yopur guitar - I get the impression the sound is definately there, so - get used to the wide grain?

[trailboss800]

A wide grain top will tend to produce stronger bass response:

Folks they are right on here. This has been common knowledge in stringed instrument building for more than 4 centuries. Wide spacing is used in tops where a strong bass response is desired and narrow where a treble response is. Many violins, cello and basses have wide spacing near the outer edges of the top and narrow spacing under the bridge. This gives balance in tone.

[jmhyer]

In fact, I like it so much that it makes me think I should have gotten an L-09 since I think it is going to be a lifetime guitar.

The problem with that is that if you had gotten the L-09, it may not have sounded as good to you!  It sounds like you've got your hands on a good one, regardless of what it looks like.  Plus, the L-03R can still be a lifetime guitar.  You can always Orsino-ize it and dress it up with other appointments.

[D4ve]

he grain on mine is wide and it sounds awesome.
The silking throughout is very subtle but uniform .

[JohnM2001]

Mine has 8 lines per inch on the outside, 17 lines per inch near the middle.  Sounds heavenly, and as many have mentioned, great bass response.