Vocal Reverb - on stage solution

[Tio Kimo]

I know there is vast knowledge regarding live sound on this forum. Hoping to gain some of it from you(all). forgive me that this isn't guitar centric.

Is there a way that a vocalist could control reverb on stage in a live situation? For pro's with a dedicated sound guy, the guy knows the set, and the different settings for different tunes. Not so for us little guys rolling into a tavern. Shield your eyes and peer back to the board, only to find that its cigarette break, or bathroom break, or the guy is schmoozing the hippie chic who's swirling away in front of the board....

So if you had that 'verb heavy tune come along...what's an onstage solution that the vocalist himself could employ?

One idea I had was to use a quality acoustic amp as a vocal DI box, and have the ability to add whatever onboard effects are available on the amp (most have an XLR mic input with reverb, and sometimes other effects). Position the amp like a monitor, and control the effects there, but leave the output level stationary, for the sound guy to manage house levels.

Thoughts? Suggestions? alternatives?

I'll be the lead singer for an evening of Pink Floyd. We're doing Meddle in its entirety, followed by Wish You Were Here in its entirety. There will be occasions where adjustments could stand to be made.

Keep in mind, I'm no too long in the tooth from a sound engineer standpoint...so speak english!

[unclrob]

So I'm guessing that there won't be a sound person.The amp idea sounds like a cool thing to try but do it at rehearsal and see how it works.You can also try using a second mic with a 1/4 inch jack run thru a reverb pedal then the pedal goes to a DI box,this will allow you control over the reverb.Again try it at rehearsal first.The best thing over all is to get someone to run sound for you.

[rockstar_not]

So I'm guessing that there won't be a sound person.The amp idea sounds like a cool thing to try but do it at rehearsal and see how it works.You can also try using a second mic with a 1/4 inch jack run thru a reverb pedal then the pedal goes to a DI box,this will allow you control over the reverb.Again try it at rehearsal first.The best thing over all is to get someone to run sound for you.

Do you have a PA or not?  Keyboard amplifiers and 'acoustic' amps do count in that category.  They are full-range amplification systems.

There are vocalist 'pedals' just like guitar pedals, which allow you to do this kind of a thing hands free. 

-Scott

[Tio Kimo]

I wondered if just running the mic through a pedal would work but thought it may adversely affect a vocal sound. Plus I use a SM86, which requires phantom power, didn't know if that would work. I could go with a 58, not that big a deal.

there's gotta be precedent for this.

There WILL be a sound guy, but I wonder about his willingness to mess with affects on the vocals, beyond initial set up. And as I say...with the length of the set and the songs within the set, I can see him wandering off/losing focus. Echoes and Fearless would sound lousy dry.

[Tio Kimo]

Do you have a PA or not?  Keyboard amplifiers and 'acoustic' amps do count in that category.  They are full-range amplification systems.

There are vocalist 'pedals' just like guitar pedals, which allow you to do this kind of a thing hands free. 

-Scott

Right you are....should have started there. TC Helicon jumps right out. They have a series of vocal pedals that take XLR in/out. $130.00 +/-

seems pretty straighforward.

Figures, a rockstar should know this.

[rockstar_not]

I don't know if the TC Helicon unit here:  http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VTR1/

will pass phantom power through successfully or not.  Might want to ring up Sweetwater and ask that question.  But this seems like probably the most direct control you can have for the lowest outlay.

I'm finding that with the style of electric guitar I'm asked to play (modern worship music like from Bethel Church, Hillsong United, Tomlin, etc.) that direct manipulation of reverb is what I'm most often modulating live other than delay.  I wouldn't have thought this before I bought my Zoom G5, but in listening to music from these folks it is what colors the sound more than just about anything other than amp selection in these types of songs.

I don't know the same is true for vocals - but if your venue is acoustically dead enough, you can use vocal reverb to great effect.  If the venue is a big gymnasium with reflective surfaces all over the place, then not so much.

[unclrob]

I should have said that what I was thinking is using two mic's,one just for use with the reverb.If your hiring a sound person then he needs to work with you as that is his job.See if he can come to a rehearsal so he can learn what your looking for at what points in the tune's.

[headsup]

unless you are super fussy about changing the reverb settings for each song, keep in mind reverb can muddy up o vocal track very quickly.
most pro's I know simply run a kill switch to the mixer, (most mixer have a reverb foot control bypass jack.
simply put, for talking, introducing songs, etc. you leave it off, and for singing, just step on the switch and it's on.
Certainly lately (in the past few years) reverb has become a lesser used effect that in the past.
just my 2 cents.

[unclrob]

Have you considered using a delay?

[Tio Kimo]

excellent input guys. Lots of info for me to explore.

We won't be hiring a sound guy, limited to the house guy. Again, this is primarily a music venue, and of course the songs are so widely known, it could well be that a brief discussion will suffice, and he can go a little deeper on a couple of tracks.

re: delay...I had not. I think I may try run a mic though my delay pedal and into my AS50D, and mess with those two effects and see what gets me where I need to be.

Rockstar.....If I understand this correctly....the TC pedals DO accommodate phantom power demands...

[rockstar_not]

unless you are super fussy about changing the reverb settings for each song, keep in mind reverb can muddy up o vocal track very quickly.
most pro's I know simply run a kill switch to the mixer, (most mixer have a reverb foot control bypass jack.
simply put, for talking, introducing songs, etc. you leave it off, and for singing, just step on the switch and it's on.
Certainly lately (in the past few years) reverb has become a lesser used effect that in the past.
just my 2 cents.

Verrrrrryyyyyyyttttrrrrruuuuuueeee.

That's why I asked about the types of venues you are in.  Even with our carpeted, padded seat 250 person auditorium at church, we rarely run more than a 10-20% mix on reverb on vocals because of the muddy factor.

-Scott

[Tio Kimo]

http://www.martyrslive.com/tech

[rockstar_not]

http://www.martyrslive.com/tech

What does the venue look like in the audience area?  Looks like a cool venue that has plenty of outboard gear for reverb and the FOH mixer has plenty of aux channels.  Any way you can work with the FOH engineer ahead of time?  Here's why I say this - I would be kind of ticked off as a sound engineer if someone comes in and had their own reverb control.

Why get angry?  If it ended up being too much, so that the vocals did end up muddy in the auditorium, then the sound guy is going to get blamed and receive the angry stares.  I have been on the receiving end of those stares more than I would like.

-Scott

[Tio Kimo]

that's a great point. I run a PA in a small tavern regularly, and I too have often received glares for sounds I had no part in generating. I definitely would not seek to do anything in a stealth mode.

I appreciate you offering that perspective.

"ahead of time" may be limited, I don't know if we'll have a significant sound check opportunity or not.

I think my best bet will be to really be organized and let him know what I want to accomplish and when, and hope that he's as interested in executing as we are.