New OM 03e ribs scrapes

[agemaia]

Hi friends,

I'm currently in the buying process. I want a Larrivee OM 03E and have found one in my usual shop in Madrid. There is only one Larrivee guitar in that shop. I have played it and I really love it. But I have found a high number of very little white scrapes or scratches (perhaps hundreds) in the upper zone of both ribs, those besides the heel (about 4.7" long, complete rib width). I'd like to know if that is a result of the satin finish that sometimes can't hide all little imperfections in wood materials. Or perhaps that could be a real imperfection in the instrument that I could call for a discount or just look for another guitar.

I'm looking forward for your answers as I'm very excited about this guitar model and I want to have it at home as soon as possible...

Thank you very much for your attention.

Regards.

[Parlor Picker]

This is difficult to answer without seeing pictures of the condition you are describing. It sounds like somebody has done something to the guitar - you are highly unlikely to find a Larrivée with inferior wood.

At the end of the day, whilst appearance does matter, the most important factors are that the guitar sounds great and is easy to play. Perhaps you can negotiate a reasonable discount with the shop because of these imperfections. Make a big thing about it and go for the best reduction you can get. You can then live with it or try and find a trustworthy luthier who can refinish the bad areas (tell the shop the repairs will cost you a lot of money!).

[agemaia]

Thank you very much. I thought when I left the shop but I considered embarrasing taking a picture of the rib in the presence of the owner who told me those scratches were common at that satin finish. I have downloaded a very similar photo from the Internet (just click on the link). Just imagine mahogany color as the one in OM 03E model instead the wood in the picture. But those are the scratches I noticed in the guitar (those little ones in horizontal direction). In the Internet picture you can see all them kind of black color but they were white at ribs mahogany wood.

If I could ask for a discount what do you think it would be a fair request?

I'd appreciate your feedback after this. Thanks again for your attention.

Regards.

[Mr_LV19E]

Are you talking about the wood grain? What do you mean by ribs?

[agemaia]

I'm meaning the sides of the guitar. The scrapes are in both sides near the heel.

If it's the wood grain, why is that pattern only visible in those areas near the heel? And why it's never visible in other than satin finishes?

Thanks a lot.

Regards.

[Parlor Picker]

The photo looks like damage inflicted by some person. Satin finish guitars per se are not subject to strange effects like this.

[agemaia]

Thanks Parlor Picker. But the photo is one from the Internet that shows a similar pattern. And it's not about the great scrape (vertical) crossing the little wood drawing I describe (horizontal). It's just that the Internet photo shows another issue. But I'm refering to the horizontal little scrapes. Do you think that is wood grain or perhaps a wood or sanding imperfection?

Thanks a lot.

Regards.

[jeremy3220]

Are you talking about mineral deposits in the grain?

That's normal btw.

[agemaia]

That's it, jeremy3220!!!

Could you explain it further, please?

Thank you.

[brandon]

Jemy can probably answer you better but basically it's just mineral deposits that get in between the wood grains and in the crevices of the wood. It's nothing to worry about and as Jeremy stated, is completely normal.

If I look closely t the finish of all of my guitars I can see these deposits under the finish. I would not hesitate buyingr the guitar if that is what you are seeing.

[agemaia]

Thanks brandon,

do you know why that is never visible in gloss finish? Is about using a different sanding process?

Regards.

[carruth]

Interesting thread. Always wondered what caused that.

[jeremy3220]

The mineral deposits come from the tree taking up nutrients from the soil over its life. They should be dispersed through-plane so sanding technique shouldn't matter. Gloss vs. satin shouldn't matter either. If the Larrivee gloss models tend not the have these noticeable mineral deposits, it may be due to wood selection. Staining or colored pore-filler during the finishing process can cover these up.

This is one reason I prefer skillful staining+dark pore-filler on mahogany versus unstained. Plus it makes the grain visually 'pop'.

[brandon]

Jeremy is correct about gloss be unglossed. All 3 of my larrivees are gloss 2 rosewood and 1 mahogany. I can see these deposits on my guitars as well. I have to look closely but they are there nonetheless.

Let us know what you decide!

[Danny]

   Both of my Larrivees are mahogany, one is gloss and one is satin. Neither has the mineral deposits visible. But I have owned a Larrivee that had a small amount of these deposits showing.
    I like the unstained mahogany look that Larrivee puts out.

[agemaia]

Thank you everybody. All your answers have been so meaningful to me. I'll tell you what I will eventually decide. I'll visit another music store to have a look at their Larrivées so I can see the differences. But I got a real good price at first one. I'll ask for a price at second shop and make up my mind (if the OM 03E model in second shop hasn't got same pattern...).

Here I write down a link to a mahogany picture as the unstained wood Larrivée uses in their mahogany satin finish guitar sides: mahogany

I've always prefered satin finish as I can guess woods get a better breathing and can release a better sound. But that is only my grasp. What do you think about it?

Regards.

[jeremy3220]

I've always prefered satin finish as I can guess woods get a better breathing and can release a better sound. But that is only my grasp. What do you think about it?

As far as I know, there is no basis for this idea that satin finishes inherently sound better. I'm not sure where this started; maybe because people think it looks more like unfinished wood that it must be less constricting. I don't know precisely what Larrivee uses but generally speaking the difference between a satin finish and a gloss finish is that a flattening agent is added to the gloss finish (basically all finishes are naturally gloss). There's also no inherent property of satin finishes that makes them thinner. Thickness is mostly determined by the person doing the finishing. Larrivee has said they apply twice as much finish to the gloss models but that doesn't tell you at all how the final thicknesses compare. It's possible, although unlikely, that the gloss end up with a thinner finish. In other words, forget the preconceived notions and just follow your ears.

[Danny]

As far as I know, there is no basis for this idea that satin finishes inherently sound better. I'm not sure where this started; maybe because people think it looks more like unfinished wood that it must be less constricting. I don't know precisely what Larrivee uses but generally speaking the difference between a satin finish and a gloss finish is that a flattening agent is added to the gloss finish (basically all finishes are naturally gloss). There's also no inherent property of satin finishes that makes them thinner. Thickness is mostly determined by the person doing the finishing. Larrivee has said they apply twice as much finish to the gloss models but that doesn't tell you at all how the final thicknesses compare. It's possible, although unlikely, that the gloss end up with a thinner finish. In other words, forget the preconceived notions and just follow your ears.

I have had a whole lot of gloss and satin Larrivees and the way I see it is the gloss models have a more thick finish, which in some cases dampens the sound. My gloss model has some finish issues on the back of the neck where it was put on too thick and has broken it's bond with the wood in the slanted crevices on the slothead. It is a very thick plastic like finish.
    I've seen it before on other gloss models, ie being too thick in some areas. I also prefer the sound of satin models in general, they do sound more open to me. After thirteen Larrivees I do have some experience with both styles and think I can say this without resertvation.

[brandon]

I've never been able to tell a difference between the two. As Jeremy said, follow your own ears. Some people can detect minute differences better than others. Danny appears to be one of those people and the OP as well. Buy what sounds best to you and you'll be in good shape.

For me, I can't handle the way the satin feels. It slides toô easily on my łeg when played seated. But that's an entirely different discussion.

[unclrob]

Brandon my I suggest some Velcro,works with Ovations for me...