Why Do Larrivee Guitars. . .

[Dotneck]

Not many people can tell, with any certainty, a 180 gram difference between two things that weigh about six pounds by merely picking something up and then picking something else up or picking one thing up with one hand and one in the other. While it makes a difference, there's also no way that you can say with certainty that the perceived differences in sound are entirely due to weight differences   

I agree with most of your assertion. Its not the actual weight that is the issue...its the perception of the weight. When I pick up my rosewood Forum III it feels heavy to me compared to my other guitars. My 00-70, OTOH, feels like a featherweight compared to the FIII.

I tend to prefer lighter guitars.

[Queequeg]

If a guitar weighs too much for someone then they shouldn't buy it as it will be unconfortable.

[Queequeg]

I agree with most of your assertion. Its not the actual weight that is the issue...its the perception of the weight.
I tend to prefer lighter guitars.

But of course this is precisely why I asked for those with scales to weigh them. Is it our perception that the Larrivees are heavier or is there really something to it? The perception seems to be borne out by the results on the scale.
What does it all mean?
(Not for me to say.)

[Mr_LV19E]

I guess the real question is ..........  If you line up 10  OM-03's will they all weigh the same?  
or     How many donuts would it take to balance the scale with a L-03?   And are we talking plain, sugar coated or filled donuts?    

[ducktrapper]

But of course this is precisely why I asked for those with scales to weigh them. Is it our perception that the Larrivees are heavier or is there really something to it? The perception seems to be borne out by the results on the scale.
What does it all mean?
(Not for me to say.)

I hate to keep harping but I get tired of folks making such a BIG deal out of small things. 180 grams? The weight difference between a Les Paul and a Stratocaster is significant, as it comes down to several pounds but it's still a matter of opinion whether a Les Paul or a Strat is a better  guitar let alone attempting to say for certain that it explains the difference between Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix.
This is a fool's errand but I'll repeat, for the record, that, regardless of weight, a good Larrivée is as good as it gets. YMMV.  

[jeremy3220]

Not many people can tell, with any certainty, a 180 gram difference between two things that weigh about six pounds by merely picking something up and then picking something else up or picking one thing up with one hand and one in the other.

While they probably have little idea how big the actual difference is, I think everyone can tell which is lighter.

While it makes a difference, there's also no way that you can say with certainty that the perceived differences in sound are entirely due to weight differences and lastly, no way other than opinion that the one guitar is better  than the other merely due to this difference.  

I agree. I rarely comment on which is better. The total weight for sure doesn't account for all the difference in sound, otherwise simply making a really light guitar with no regard for design or craftsmanship would yield a better guitar. The differences come from mass, stiffness, where the mass is and what shape, etc; but a change in mass alone will make a difference and if we know where that mass difference occurs we can make a prediction as to how the guitar will differ in tone. If the mass difference comes from an important sound producing part then... the more mass the more energy is required to move it... or with energy(energy in) constant the less movement you'll get.

Like I said, 180g is more than the soundboard weighs. So yeah, 180g depending on where it comes from could be a very big deal, actually 10g of wood removed from the right spot will make a noticeable difference in tone because it's not just weight that changes but stiffness.

[ducktrapper]

Well, I've always agreed that every guitar is different and always disputed whether, when it comes to decent instruments, merely different makes them better or worse. And as always, it's up to the buyer to determine what guitar is better for his purposes, whatever they may be. My reference to two guitar greats who preferred quite different guitars is my vain and perhaps in vain attempt to say that in the end it's the musician and the music that is made that really matters. Whether it's made on a pre-war D-28, a "pre-war" SCGC, a Larrivée, a red tag Yammy or a new Esteban is not really the issue.           

[GGJaguar]

FWIW, here are some real weights that are accurate (measured with a scientific balance, rounded to 2 significant figures):

Martin D-35 14-fret EIR/sitka                                          4.9 lbs (2.2 kg)
Martin custom 12-fret D-28 Marquis EIR/adi                       4.4 lbs (2.0 kg)
Martin custom 12-fret D-18GE  Mahog/adi                         4.3 lbs (2.0 kg)
Martin D-15SM 12-fret Mahog/mahog                               4.1 lbs (1.9 kg)
Osthoff 12-fret SD Khaya/adi                                          4.8 lbs (2.2 kg)
Larrivee SD-03 12-fret Mahog/sitka                                  4.3 lbs (2.0 kg)
Larrivee BT-03 12-fret baritone Mahog/sitka                      4.4 lbs (2.0 kg)

Larrivee 000-50 12-fret Mahog/sitka                                4.1 lbs (1.9 kg)
Santa Cruz 000  12-fret EIR/sitka                                    4.1 lbs (1.9 kg)

I don't think any generalizations can be made on this small data set, but it doesn't appear that the Larrivee's are out of line.

GG

[ducktrapper]

FWIW, here are some real weights that are accurate (measured with a scientific balance, rounded to 2 significant figures):

Martin D-35 14-fret EIR/sitka                                          4.9 lbs (2.2 kg)
Martin custom 12-fret D-28 Marquis EIR/adi                       4.4 lbs (2.0 kg)
Martin custom 12-fret D-18GE  Mahog/adi                         4.3 lbs (2.0 kg)
Martin D-15SM 12-fret Mahog/mahog                               4.1 lbs (1.9 kg)
Osthoff 12-fret SD Khaya/adi                                          4.8 lbs (2.2 kg)
Larrivee SD-03 12-fret Mahog/sitka                                  4.3 lbs (2.0 kg)
Larrivee BT-03 12-fret baritone Mahog/sitka                      4.4 lbs (2.0 kg)

Larrivee 000-50 12-fret Mahog/sitka                                4.1 lbs (1.9 kg)
Santa Cruz 000  12-fret EIR/sitka                                    4.1 lbs (1.9 kg)

I don't think any generalizations can be made on this small data set, but it doesn't appear that the Larrivee's are out of line.

GG

Out of line? I would think you've added to my argument that, weight-wise they're in line  with most other high end guitars and the differences, whatever they are, are impossible to attribute to weight alone. Play what you love. 

[GGJaguar]

Out of line? I would think you've added to my argument that, weight-wise they're in line  with most other high end guitars  

I think that's what I said.   

GG

[ducktrapper]

I think that's what I said.  

GG

Doh! I misread.  

[hadden]

FWIW, here are some real weights that are accurate (measured with a scientific balance, rounded to 2 significant figures):

Martin D-35 14-fret EIR/sitka                                          4.9 lbs (2.2 kg)
Martin custom 12-fret D-28 Marquis EIR/adi                       4.4 lbs (2.0 kg)
Martin custom 12-fret D-18GE  Mahog/adi                         4.3 lbs (2.0 kg)
Martin D-15SM 12-fret Mahog/mahog                               4.1 lbs (1.9 kg)
Osthoff 12-fret SD Khaya/adi                                          4.8 lbs (2.2 kg)
Larrivee SD-03 12-fret Mahog/sitka                                  4.3 lbs (2.0 kg)
Larrivee BT-03 12-fret baritone Mahog/sitka                      4.4 lbs (2.0 kg)

Larrivee 000-50 12-fret Mahog/sitka                                4.1 lbs (1.9 kg)
Santa Cruz 000  12-fret EIR/sitka                                    4.1 lbs (1.9 kg)

I don't think any generalizations can be made on this small data set, but it doesn't appear that the Larrivee's are out of line.

GG

The two OOOs: the Rosewood is a lot heavier than the mahogany (as has been pointed out already),  so lack of weight difference is significant actually. However I prefer the sound and play of my Lv03r to the two Santa Cruz rosewoods I've auditions (only 2, granted).

[ducktrapper]

The two OOOs: the Rosewood is a lot heavier than the mahogany (as has been pointed out already),  so lack of weight difference is significant actually. However I prefer the sound and play of my Lv03r to the two Santa Cruz rosewoods I've auditions (only 2, granted).

Significant in what way, however? You prefer rosewood so you actually like the heavier guitar. I prefer mahogany. Due to the tone or the weight or an X factor, I can't say. Therefore the question remains. So what? 

[JOYCEfromNS]

A quality is  quality. The weight, significant or otherwise ( tho the figures provided seem insignificant) has always been irrelevant in my assessment in consideration to taker home

[hadden]

Significant in what way, however? You prefer rosewood so you actually like the heavier guitar. I prefer mahogany. Due to the tone or the weight or an X factor, I can't say. Therefore the question remains. So what?  

I was just commenting on that there was a difference in build weight between the two (OOOs: sc rosewood should be heavier) when it was indicated they were the same, more or less. Nothing more. I wasn't making a comment on quality due to that. Well actually I stated when making a comparison myself I prefered the heavier Larrivee in rosewoods to the SC rw in the couple I tried. Which also means nothing.

[Michael Solo]

 

I think Larrivee is lighter and better built than most guits..

[ducktrapper]

I think it doesn't matter unless you're marketing guitars to people with more money than common sense.   

[evensteven]

in the spirit of this debate, and i hope this holds some weight, may i say that my cat can eat an entire watermelon. 

[L07 Shooting Star]

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks how much a guitar actually weighs has much significance or is a determining factor in terms of how good it sounds or how long it will last is misguided in my opinion.

[jeremy3220]

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks how much a guitar actually weighs has much significance or is a determining factor in terms of how good it sounds or how long it will last is misguided in my opinion.

Basic physics dictates that mass has significance.

KE=.5mv^2

If velocity is held constant and mass increases, energy will have to increase. The more mass there is the more energy will be required to move it. Since we are talking about sound and guitars it will also change the vibrational patterns depending on where that mass is. Luthiers and scientist know mass is important.