Splintered bridge pins

[rikstar]

I just changed the strings on my new L10e. I was prompted to do this because there was a buzz in the bridge when I played certain notes on the 4th, 5th and 6th strings- it was very intermittent but very real. So I thought I'd change strings to see if that might help. Well in the process, I found 2 badly splintered bridge pins and one cracked . One of these 3 actually had 2 string grooves cut in it instead of one...weird. Luckily I had some extra TUSQ pins as replacements. It worked- the buzz is gone- thank goodness . It must have been those splintered tips vibrating at certain frequencies. I emailed Larrivee- I hope they will replace them. If not, I guess I'll call Bob C. and buy the $45 buffalo pins with abolone inlay- OUCH!! By the way, when I was changing the string, I took a peak under the saddle. Instead of the saddle sitting on wood, it looked like it was sitting on a strip of nylon string. Is that part of the pick-up? On Bob C.'s site his saddle installation instructions say that it should rest on a peice of ebony to maximize tone. Do all Acoustic /Electrics have this nylon strip ? If so, does that sacrifice a bit of tone?  Any thoughts?

Rick

[abalone at last]

By chance would that strip of nylon ....be the undersaddle accoustic electric pickup. Believe it or not this is all those pickups are..a little strip of something with piezo crystals attached to a wire that goes through the bridge. If thats not it someone used something other than ebony to shim your saddle...........

[rikstar]

Yeah. I'm pretty sure it is part of the pickup.
Rick

[rikstar]

I learned alot about bridge pins from Bob C. 's web site today.  Apparently stock black bridge pins are usually made of ebony ( I assume that is what mine were made of -it certainly explains the splintering).  This must be a common occurrence... Although nobody commented on it. My solution was to put white TUSQ pins on my L10 tonight  and I think it looks better than the original pins even without the abalone inlay. I wonder why Larrivee doesn't just use TUSQ as the stock pins.  It would be inexpensive and much better than wood.  After looking at the prices of bone, ivory, and buffalo horn, I certainly don't fault them for not using those materials.
Rick

[Danny]

I learned alot about bridge pins from Bob C. 's web site today.  Apparently stock black bridge pins are usually made of ebony ( I assume that is what mine were made of -it certainly explains the splintering).  This must be a common occurrence... Although nobody commented on it. My solution was to put white TUSQ pins on my L10 tonight  and I think it looks better than the original pins even without the abalone inlay. I wonder why Larrivee doesn't just use TUSQ as the stock pins.  It would be inexpensive and much better than wood.  After looking at the prices of bone, ivory, and buffalo horn, I certainly don't fault them for not using those materials.
Rick

This is a some good information for someone trying to run down a buzz.  Larrivee does use tusq on 03 models. At least that's what we were told was on our Forum III's. The ebony ones go on the more expensive models.
   Were the ones that split on the heavier wound strings? I have always taken a small file and made the pin slot match the string on the larger strings. They will seat better and won't split at the end. Lot's of little things go into getting a guitar "set up" right.

[Zohn]

Hi Rick
I believe it could be the result of a string ball pinching inbetween the pin-slot and the hole in the bridge plate.
It is quite common to find plastic pins that are distorted along its length because of that very reason, and as a result are sometimes sticky when one removes them as shown on Brian Kimsey's web-site.



Wood tends to splinter, nick and even break because it is harder and/or more brittle.
I have found that ebony works well as bridge pins though because it is dense and resistant to wear.

I prefer using un-slotted pins with the slots cut into the holes in the bridge through to the bridge plate instead. I had my OM's bridge built that way and use solid (ebony) pins with it.
That ensures better stringball-to-bridgeplate-contact and the tendency of the balls from biting in at the hole is reduced, extending the life of the bridge plate as shown on the shots of this spent bridge.

[rikstar]

 
   Were the ones that split on the heavier wound strings?

Yes, the splintering tips were on the low 4,5, and 6 string pins. Luckily Cherokee Guitars has replacement TUSQ pins at a good price. I just wish they had black TUSQ with abalone inlay...that would match the original pins.

[Danny]

Yes, the splintering tips were on the low 4,5, and 6 string pins. Luckily Cherokee Guitars has replacement TUSQ pins at a good price. I just wish they had black TUSQ with abalone inlay...that would match the original pins.

If you get a new set of ebony pins, just take some time to enlarge the slot for the heavier strings. I have even matched each pin to the size string. It works well as long as you remember to put them back in the right order when you change strings. It also will help to enlarge the slot on tusq pins in the same way to allow them to seat down well, if the slots are too thin to begin with.

[Mr_LV19E]

  Larrivee does use tusq on 03 models. At least that's what we were told was on our Forum III's. The ebony ones go on the more expensive models.
 

This has never made any sense to me, you can buy Ebony pins at LMII for way less than what the Tusq pins go for.

 I have even matched each pin to the size string. It works well as long as you remember to put them back in the right order when you change strings.

I took a small block of scrap oak and drilled holes in it, took a permanent marker and drew a saddle on it for orientation and put my pins in it when I remove my strings. Makes a handy little tool for your bench.

[Danny]

This has never made any sense to me, you can buy Ebony pins at LMI for way less than what the Tusq pins go for.

I took a small block of scrap oak and drilled holes in it, took a permanent marker and drew a saddle on it for orientation and put my pins in it when I remove my strings. Makes a handy little tool for your bench.

Sounds like a neat tool. I could practice making a few bridges from oak and try to get the spacing right etc.
      This is the kind of stuff I'd enjoy doing most of the time. I'm a bit burnt out on A/C work after 36 + years now. But the economic downturn and a few other events put me back to work again.

      I did set up one guitar today. (thoroughly) And started on another. Both are for friends so I'll make about $5 an hour, but I enjoy watching a Dirty, messed up guitar come back to life. When I gave the completed one back he said, "It looks new".
                      Of course to my eyes it didn't, but it looked nice.

[AZLiberty]

I wonder why Larrivee doesn't just use TUSQ as the stock pins.  It would be inexpensive and much better than wood. 

Rick

No it wouldn't.  Most of us see TUSQ as "fancy plastic" and would replace them with ebony or bone.

[Danny]

No it wouldn't.  Most of us see TUSQ as "fancy plastic" and would replace them with ebony or bone.

Definitely true. But the standard Larrivee pins are just fine.

[rikstar]

No it wouldn't.  Most of us see TUSQ as "fancy plastic" and would replace them with ebony or bone.

I will defer to those who know more about these materials than myself, but please explain how wood pins can be better than a substance that approximates the density and acoustic qualities of ivory. My ebony bridge pins were new and 3 out of 6 were splintered. To me that says wood bridge pins are not such a great idea.

[rikstar]

  Definitely true. But the standard Larrivee pins are just fine.

What are standard Larrivee pins made of on an L10?
Rick

[Danny]

What are standard Larrivee pins made of on an L10?
Rick

By standard I meant the 03 series tusq pins. The 10 series are ebony. I have had many sets of these and never had them splinter. But I did have trouble with them fitting correctly, until I filed each larger string slot correctly.
      Such is the nature of factory produced guitars. Sometimes little things don't get close enough attention.

[Mr_LV19E]

I will defer to those who know more about these materials than myself, but please explain how wood pins can be better than a substance that approximates the density and acoustic qualities of ivory. My ebony bridge pins were new and 3 out of 6 were splintered. To me that says wood bridge pins are not such a great idea.

I've never had ebony pins splinter but I have had the tusq pins get frayed on the edges of the groove and speaking of grooves, that is what the strings do to the tusq saddles. I don't change out pins and saddles for tone difference, I change them out for materials that last longer.

[Danny]

I've never had ebony pins splinter but I have had the tusq pins get frayed on the edges of the groove and speaking of grooves, that is what the strings do to the tusq saddles. I don't change out pins and saddles for tone difference, I change them out for materials that last longer.

Also the tusq nut slots cut down and will cause the strings to lay on the first fret eventually. My D-09 was like that when I bought it. But it was nine years old.

[cke]

I have never had problems with bridge pins,other than when I popped one out too vigorously  and it sailed up to the ceiling and hid itself in the room.It took me an hour to to find it  I changed how I was doing thing,and always keep extras around now 

[Matthew Larrivee]

Also the tusq nut slots cut down and will cause the strings to lay on the first fret eventually. My D-09 was like that when I bought it. But it was nine years old.

This isnt always so much a factor of the nut itself, but rather the fact that nut slots are often cut with a "V" shaped file. The round string wears in the bottom of the "V" causing it to get lower. Once it is at the bottom of the "V" it doesnt move too much. Today some makers (including ourselves) are switching over to "U" shaped files. Stewart mcdonald makes a get set of individual gauge round bottom files. They make a really nice nut slot that doesnt get lower.

The tusq product is nice, but expensive.

[Danny]

This isnt always so much a factor of the nut itself, but rather the fact that nut slots are often cut with a "V" shaped file. The round string wears in the bottom of the "V" causing it to get lower. Once it is at the bottom of the "V" it doesnt move too much. Today some makers (including ourselves) are switching over to "U" shaped files. Stewart mcdonald makes a get set of individual gauge round bottom files. They make a really nice nut slot that doesnt get lower.

The tusq product is nice, but expensive.

Nut slot files and a diamond fret crowning file are next on my list of set up tools.