Larrivee should slightly change bracing on higher end models

[JOYCEfromNS]

The #sold in itself is meaningless as GA-ME stated tho what Lefty states most of us take to be implied when discussing the subject topic & players is most meaningful. The Esteban reference is an attempt of a contrarian view. A most interesting thread  

[jeremy3220]

Yes, perhaps too strong.    By "self-destruct" I really meant deform to the point where it needs warranty repair work, and that's obviously what factory builders want to avoid.    A neck reset is simply a work-around for structural deformation, and I think Larrivee is on record as stating that neck resets are fairly uncommon for their guitars.

Like I said, I think it makes sense for the builder to let the player decide on that trade-off between structural robustness and tone (for a premium price).

Fair enough.

The number of times a particular type of guitar design has been completed bears nothing in regards to the validity of the design.

And in this particular case it doesn't make them lighter. You don't get mass(weight) credits for experience.

[unclrob]

Having played/handled hundreds of guitars from custom one off's to mass produced the one thing that I've found for me and only me if a guitar can't handle being used as a workimg tool,if I can't use the guage of strings and handle the changing enviroments I have to play in then its useless no matter the price or name.I have always found "lighter built" means couch guitar and "overbuilt" means working guitar.I have played a guitar of the high end value,lightly built and was told if I string it up with my 14-58's I would void there warranty.
Now I know this will make no sence to most but I don't find Larrivee's or Guilds to be overbuilt.Too some I'm sure they seem that way but again being as I use them for work I have no problem.As for the term "lighter built" I prefer the term "couch guitar" and the term "over built" to be "working built".So slam away.
To Jean,Matt and John there is no reason to change anthing there your guitars,your design and I'm happy with what you've done both as a player and a repairperson.

[GA-ME]

Having played/handled hundreds of guitars from custom one off's to mass produced the one thing that I've found for me and only me if a guitar can't handle being used as a workimg tool,if I can't use the guage of strings and handle the changing enviroments I have to play in then its useless no matter the price or name.I have always found "lighter built" means couch guitar and "overbuilt" means working guitar.I have played a guitar of the high end value,lightly built and was told if I string it up with my 14-58's I would void there warranty.
Now I know this will make no sence to most but I don't find Larrivee's or Guilds to be overbuilt.Too some I'm sure they seem that way but again being as I use them for work I have no problem.As for the term "lighter built" I prefer the term "couch guitar" and the term "over built" to be "working built".So slam away.
To Jean,Matt and John there is no reason to change anthing there your guitars,your design and I'm happy with what you've done both as a player and a repairperson.

Rob, you have to admit, your choice of string gauges falls outside the range of normal. Your argument simultaneously and effectively illustrates that Larrivee guitars ARE OVERBUILT and why it is necessary for manufacturers TO OVERBUILD!

[abalone at last]

 I really........agree with Matt L...... and don't understand how some people are calling Larrivee's overbuilt. I find their guitars very light and fragile and would recommend that owners handle them with care. Some of you are also comparing apples with oranges here as well which is doing a great job of muddying the waters. For the sake of comparison I would concentrate on Larrivee, Taylor, Gibson, Godin , Martin, Takamine, and maybe a few others based on similar market share, cost ,and value. Getting back to the original topic..................... Larrivee could use adi spruce bracing on some of their high end models similar to what Taylor did with the 2008 fall limiteds..BTW If anyone thinks maple binding is over building ....they are just jealous  

[unclrob]

GA-ME I know my string guage is outside the norm.Still I don't find the guitars "over built".Yes I agree that there not light and fragile as some want but again I don't think that some of these other brands that fit that mold work as gigging guitars.Whats funny is I have a few clients with these lightly built guitars and they never leave the house but these same players have Larrivee's,Guilds,Talemine and a few with Martins that are there gigging guitars.
I guess I can't understand buying a $4K guitar that is lightly built to the point that your afraid to play it hard for fear it might impload.

[gitnoob]

I have always found "lighter built" means couch guitar and "overbuilt" means working guitar.

Good point, but I suspect that the couch-guitar market is bigger than the working-guitar market.

Personally, I think Larrivee makes some of the best couch guitars too.     I don't need a loud booming guitar for the couch.

But this thread is really about what Larrivee can do to maintain their margins on their higher-end guitars while making them "worth" the higher price (and increasing their sales volume for those models).     I think that given their build quality and quality of materials, they could go after the "boutique" buyers.   But that would mean making them more responsive IMO.

[Walkerman]

It is interesting to me that Martin and Taylor use many different bracing patterens. X, forward shifted X, A bracing, CV bracing etc. Perhaps Larrivee puts it's best bracing in all it's offerings

winna, winna, chicken dinna

[Walkerman]

"Rob, you have to admit, your choice of string gauges falls outside the range of normal. Your argument simultaneously and effectively illustrates that Larrivee guitars ARE OVERBUILT and why it is necessary for manufacturers TO OVERBUILD!"

Actually, I believe he is saying that they are properly built, NOT overbuilt. IOW, if you can't gig with your guitar because you are afraid it will fall apart, it is inadequate.  Taking your argument, one might say that a car which stands up to the rigors of everyday commuting is overbuilt.  I would say, it is properly built, because I EXPECT my cars to hold up to daily driving.

[Flake]

Ditto from me.  (That was the point I was trying to make in my last post).

So I am very thankful it is built the way it is whether one cares to call it "overbuilt" or not.

Kurt

This thread seems to have hypered down to being a place where we can disagree agreeably.  After reading all the postings thus far it seems the consensus is that Larrivee's are built more robustly than some other guitars in their price range.  If we look at it from a standpoint of what constitutes overbraced vs underbraced vs "just right".  I mean no offense at all when I say unclrob easily qualifies as Papa Bear.  To be able to string a guitar up to pitch or even half a step down and leave it there on a permanent basis with no ill effects suited up with 58-14s sure does not place it in UnderbracedVille.  From the perspective of the man utilizing that guitar it seems just right.  Strung with lights or extra lights that guitar is more than adequate.  Some would say overbraced.  If it were braced more sparsely (how much?-a little, a lot?) at some point there would be structural failure.  I LIKE the fact that I can put mediums on my 000.  After playing it for about a year (and it was new-old-stock so it was about 3 when I got it) the thing has opened up noticeably more than when I got it.  I have never tried extra lights on it because I never go that light and because while it sounds okay with lights it is not nearly the tone king as with mediums.  I tune it 1/2 step down because it is easier to play for me.  Full pitch with lights. To those who judge Larrivee's as the standard it is just right.  I like mine.  There are other guitars that are more responsive in the price range and some are scalloped or more lightly braced.  A few can still handle mediums and some are right at that point where I am too nervous to leave mediums on.  I do not mind having a guitar that I would call-not-disrespectfully-overbraced.  I am among those who would be inclined to buy the same model braced a bit lighter and warranted for "lights only" if it were available.  I regret that I did not use a more acceptable term to describe the bracing in my earlier post.  It was from a perspective that could have been worded more respectfully I guess.   

[GA-ME]

  Taking your argument, one might say that a car which stands up to the rigors of everyday commuting is overbuilt.  I would say, it is properly built, because I EXPECT my cars to hold up to daily driving.

I never stated that a lightly built guitar isn't capable of being an every day gigging guitar. Someone else may have asserted that, but that is not my argument. In fact, I argue the EXACT OPPOSITE point of view. A well cared for, lightly built guitar, will gig everyday as well as a  guitar built like a tank. My friend Junior has been playing his lightly built SCGC OM at 4-5, gigs a week for nearly 17 years and its none the worse for the wear.

[Walkerman]

I never stated that a lightly built guitar isn't capable of being an every day gigging guitar. Someone else may have asserted that, but that is not my argument. In fact, I argue the EXACT OPPOSITE point of view. A well cared for, lightly built guitar, will gig everyday as well as a  guitar built like a tank. My friend Junior has been playing his lightly built SCGC OM at 4-5, gigs a week for nearly 17 years and its none the worse for the wear.

You said Rob...who said his guitars should be a working guitar, strung the way he liked, (everyday gigging guitar).. proved his was OVERBUILT.  Move on.
OTOH, I NEVER said that you said "that a lightly built guitar isn't capable of being an every day gigging guitar"...now, did I.

[jeremy3220]

I never stated that a lightly built guitar isn't capable of being an every day gigging guitar. Someone else may have asserted that, but that is not my argument. In fact, I argue the EXACT OPPOSITE point of view. A well cared for, lightly built guitar, will gig everyday as well as a  guitar built like a tank. My friend Junior has been playing his lightly built SCGC OM at 4-5, gigs a week for nearly 17 years and its none the worse for the wear.

Perhaps the most famous 'working guitar', the Clarence White 1935 Martin D-28, is also a very lightly built guitar. That one has certainly left the couch and so have many early Martins, Santa Cruz, Collings, etc.

[abalone at last]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97czMjuAnSA&NR=1     why exactly were we changing again?

[unclrob]

Flake have you been talking to my son he calls me papa bear....

I'm not putting down any of these guitars that are "lighter built" and I'm sure there are lots of players that gig on them.All I'm saying is for me I will never own a guitar that can't handle med or heavier guage strings.As for older Martins back in the ole days string guage's were heavier a set of 12's were concidered light 13's med. and 14 heavy's.I had a older jazz player that played arch tops his high E was a 16 and his B string was a wound 20 and what an amazing tone  and volumn he got.
I understand what players are going after with the lighter builds.I just don't think that Larrivee needs to move in that direction.I mean heck they're the first company I came across that stepped out of "lets make a Martin".I love how there bracing system holds up over the years,no behind bridge bellying.I got more balance tone and better volumn from them then any of the Gibson,Martin or even Guld.Now my oldest is a 94 that I got used and its out in anywhere from the 80's to under a cover outdoor gig that got up to 112 with 80 to 90% humity.Indoor gigs that that the AC was set at 60 degrees and humity in the 20% range.So again please Larrivee do no harm to your guitars by changing anything there perfect{IMHO}as they are.

[leftync]

It's true that the Clarence White-Tony Rice Martin D-28 is lightly built. It's also true, according to numerous articles I've read, that it receives almost constant attention. I doubt many of us could, or would, maintain it sufficiently to gig with it.

[hadden]

My goodness, did everyone miss Matthews' last post.  With the nugget about changes coming? We'd rather do the overbuilt debate for the 9000th time then.

[hadden]

Ultimately, I do agree that more should probably be done to differentiate between the -03 and the -10.


We do have some game altering changes that we may be making to the high end guitars in the next five years that will definitely add to the differentiation between satin and gloss – and they will not be just cosmetic changes.

[flatlander]

GA-ME I know my string guage is outside the norm.Still I don't find the guitars "over built".Yes I agree that there not light and fragile as some want but again I don't think that some of these other brands that fit that mold work as gigging guitars.Whats funny is I have a few clients with these lightly built guitars and they never leave the house but these same players have Larrivee's,Guilds,Talemine and a few with Martins that are there gigging guitars.
I guess I can't understand buying a $4K guitar that is lightly built to the point that your afraid to play it hard for fear it might impload.

I think mine is a prime example. 30 years with a more normal medium sting choice. No adjustment rod and no neck problems. A slight hump where it joins body more not enough that it couldn't be kept in check with a little fret work. It also sounds dang good and super versitile. Not a full time pro but it's done a couple hundred gigs over the years I'd guess and tons of playing in all kinds of conditions. Jeremy I'm glad you backed-off of self destructing comment because the way I see it, neck resets are pretty much a result of that in my mind. Unless you just want to blame the strings and thier tension seperately from guitar. 
That being said I love my super lightly built Gallagher too. Different thing. But it did require a neck reset and I'm afraid to take it out much. I swear it wieght half of what the L does. It's Mahogany B\sides, but still. Feels like a feather after playing L.