Question about Forum Guitars

[teh]

I love my two Larrivees (One Spruce and Flamed Maple and one all mahogany) and my two Martins (Both Rosewood). I have been poking around with the idea of buying an all mahogany 6 string to fill a gap in my lineup and I see a lot of Forum Guitars come up for sale (8 since mid September). With the hundreds of posts written and the thousands of times the threads were read on the Forum III and IV versions, I find myself asking 1 (actually 2) questions.

1) How many were purchased new and subsequently sold by the original purchaser and

2) What was the motivation to sell? (i.e. a lot of sellers report that they their Forum guitar just isn't getting any playing time).

I am not in a hurry to buy nor am I experiencing insufferable gas pains but responses would be appreciated in influencing my decision as to whether I should consider a used Forum model. Thanks for any insights.

P.S. My dread is getting some warranty work done and my son borrowed my LV-03MT 12 string so my playing time has been split between my parlor (in Open C) and my OM-35 (in Dropped D)

[ST]

Hi Teh,

See Forum Guitars

This will give you the original production/sales numbers and the specifications for each of the Forum Guitar Series'

[Randy_R]

I doubt there's any way to determine how many have been sold and why.

[Danny]

   Hard to say what the facts are.

  As an example for you of the opposite to your question I will use myself. I only own two Larrivees, both forum guitars.
  I have zero plans to sell either, take the F-IV with me everywhere, just came home from a 2 1/2 week road trip and couldn't wait to get my hands on the F-III.
  I've owned 8 other Larrivees and they are all in others hands now. The Forum's are mine.

   Both of them are aging well as they get played and the compliments are endless about either one from all levels of players. Including "studio musician".

    Maybe someday I'll sell one of them, or even both. But I can't see that happening in my situation.

[broKen]

This is in no way a put down or insult toward anyone here, but humans (that includes myself) have the tendency to be fickle.  I am. Good thing guitars don't have feelings.

[tadol]

I can only speak for myself, but I bought 3 of the Forum 3s - IS/RW, IS/Mah, and Mah/Mah - why? 'Cause I knew I'd love the size, and couldn't decide which one I'd love the most -

The IS/RW was the one that I ordered first, and has been the one I'll most likely keep forever. But with all the interest in the IS/Mah, I thought I should probably get one of those as well. But I prefered the tone of the RW over the Mah -

Once I saw the beautiful Mah/Mah ones, I had to have one of those - but after it got here and I played it a bit, I realized that my F1 was everything it was and then some, and the reality of having 3 F3s ( and still having GAS ) made me realize I should sell one, and then I sold the other. I still have the IS/RW - but as I play more and other guitars, I realize that for me, the 1-3/4 nut on these is tight, and the saddle spacing is tight as well. I love it, but given a choice, I always grab the wider neck guitar -

The F3s were much hyped, and very special guitars - once they were built, the LS model was picked up by others, and its a proven great guitar. But like many Larrivees - they built alot of them, and it is very playable and affordable.

So -  a high percentage of them get turned over, and are available for a good price - for a little while. But as time goes by, they'll be harder to find, and if you want one, you should grab it while you can - 

[sgarnett]

I've never purchased a Forum guitar new. I did buy a used Forum I, and liked it so much I bought another (and ended up with consecutive serial numbers). In the cold, clear light of morning, I don't really need two of them. I've intended to sell one for at least a year now, but haven't been anxious to see it go, and never seem to get around to listing it.

The Forum guitars have to be ordered "in the dark", and there's a short window for placing the order. While there are some options, they are mostly specified by consensus. I believe the order process involves placing a (relatively painless) deposit, but sooner or later the payment comes due.

For many (all?) people, there can be a difference between what you think you will or should like, and what you actually enjoy. Tastes and needs change too, especially as our playing evolves.

The Forum guitars have all been 12 fret models. That has a significant effect on the sound. Many consider it to be an improvement, but I suppose that some may not. Certainly, some people may find that a 12 fret neck hinders them more than expected. Others never miss "the dusty frets", and find the shorter neck MORE comfortable.

And of course, there's alway the next temptation.

I don't see many Forum I/II guitars for sale any more. I think there's an inevitable shuffle that happens in the first year or two, as some of the guitars drift from the people who were willing to to front the capital on speculation, to those who just want to try one for a while, before eventually finding the home they'll never leave.

Plus, there is the harsh economic reality of unplanned expenses and/or loss of income, or maybe just the credit card bill that won't go down without some belt tightening.

[bluesman67]

I have sold many outstanding guitars that didn't get playing time, that's just the way it is with a lot of guitar junkies.  The FIII I sold was nothing short of spectacular, IS/RW.  Forum guitars are affordable examples of the very best Larrivee offers, IMO.  Any Forum guitar order was first approved by Jean Larrivee to be built and the folks on the shop floor are aware they are creating something special, I'm not implying that they aren't always doing a quality job.  There was a facebook page for the FIII and some of the shop workers contributed to the FB page and it seem they all took a great sense of pride and care in their work.  Forum III and IV guitars were all ordered during the worst depression in 80 years and that must impact resales?  Personally, I found my FIII sounded amazing but also discovered I am unable to coax it's wonderful tone with my style and skills and that mahogany is my tone.  I sold mine to commission a Green Mountain guitar.

[JOYCEfromNS]

Yup I think in general Sgarnett nailed it. My view as well anyway

[broKen]

For many (all?) people, there can be a difference between what you think you will or should like, and what you actually enjoy. Tastes and needs change too, especially as our playing evolves.


And of course, there's alway the next temptation.

I don't see many Forum I/II guitars for sale any more. I think there's an inevitable shuffle that happens in the first year or two, as some of the guitars drift from the people who were willing to to front the capital on speculation, to those who just want to try one for a while, before eventually finding the home they'll never leave.

Plus, there is the harsh economic reality of unplanned expenses and/or loss of income, or maybe just the credit card bill that won't go down without some belt tightening.

That is well said.  Especially the part about what you think you will like and what you find you enjoy, and the changes we make on our journey of making music. That's been a lot of my experience.

Ken

[teh]

Thanks for the insights and thanks Randy for the link which indicates a total of 135 guitars (Forum I - 17, Forum II -9, Forum III 78 and Forum IV 29). Does not include overruns plus 1 made in Forum II run to replace a Forum I that was damaged.

My son had my 12 string tuned to Open D tonight and I played it for about 30 minutes. I am going to let him change the strings before he returns it to me but it responded nicely to the open tuning and I can capo up with my Shubb 12 string tuner and use the cutaway to get to the higher frets. I would be curious to get some feedback from the owner of an all hog venetian cutaway 6 strings that my be floating around out there in OPen D.

[Dotneck]

I would be curious to get some feedback from the owner of an all hog venetian cutaway 6 strings that my be floating around out there in OPen D.

There are not too many of those out there....if I remember correctly there are two.

[Jagadis]

I don't think I'm every going to sell my Forum III guitar.  In fact, I ended up selling my other two guitars after I got the Forum III because I wasn't really playing anything other than the Forum III.  Even today...almost two years later...I still don't really feel like buying another guitar.  I will admit that spend quite a bit of time watching all the custom build threads on the Acoustic Guitar Forum site and I certainly admire the craftsmanship and care that goes into producing these one of a kind guitars....but I still feel like I have some kind of special attachment to my Forum III.  I think part of the reason is that we were all so heavily involved in the creation and production of these guitars from the point that they were just an ongoing discussion thread on this website, until they were shipped to our homes.  There were only 78 Forum III guitars built and mine is only 1 of 14 all mahogany guitars.  I believe that my Forum III is only 1 of 6 all Mahogany guitars with the herringbone purfling around the outside of the guitar so that makes it even more special.

Just for old times sake...here is a slideshow of all the photos documenting the production of the Forum III guitars.  For those of us who have a Forum III, this will bring back some smiles to your faces.

Forum III Guitar Production Photos

Jordan

[mcclurew]

Forum III @ 78 units seemed particularly popular.

[Danny]

Forum III @ 78 units seemed particularly popular.

We were struggling at first to just get 5 members on board. After 5 though it snowballed and in the end over a hundred LS-03 models were made.
    Only 78 Forum "numbered models" though. I was playing mine tonight. I still say, as at the beginning it is the best Larrivee I have ever played. Some say that's hype.

  Well, say on.

[tuffythepug]

    We were struggling at first to just get 5 members on board. After 5 though it snowballed and in the end over a hundred LS-03 models were made.
    Only 78 Forum "numbered models" though. I was playing mine tonight. I still say, as at the beginning it is the best Larrivee I have ever played. Some say that's hype.

  Well, say on.

My feelings about my Forum III are very similar to your own.    Even though yours is Italian spruce and I opted for the all mahogany, it seems like we were both very pleased with the end result. 
 
78 orders for the Forum III was a huge step up from previous forum guitar offerings.  Those are very much coveted here too of course
There was enormous amount of energy and planning by you and Ricky among many others which prompted a lot of interest in that project once it got rolling.  There was a lot of member participation in spec'g it out. Also, there seemed to be more options, such as special woods and trims that weren't normally offered in 03 series guitars.    I feel I've got a guitar that is worth double what I ended up paying for my FIII / LS-03 all hog with herringbone rosette and purfling.   

Like you said, Danny, some may call it hype;  but I have 4 Larrivees and I know a gem when I play one

[Denis]

The specs on the FIII were pretty varied though...all hog, hog/spruce, rw/spruce...there are some pretty big differences.  The FIV, each and every one of them have identical specs.  I know Danny loves his FIII more than any other Larrivee but for me, the FIV is my favourite.  Don't get me wrong, I love my FIII as well and I think it has a more complete tone, bigger dynamic range but the FIV is really the one I like to play the most. 

[Danny]

I don't think I'm every going to sell my Forum III guitar.  In fact, I ended up selling my other two guitars after I got the Forum III because I wasn't really playing anything other than the Forum III.  Even today...almost two years later...I still don't really feel like buying another guitar.  I will admit that spend quite a bit of time watching all the custom build threads on the Acoustic Guitar Forum site and I certainly admire the craftsmanship and care that goes into producing these one of a kind guitars....but I still feel like I have some kind of special attachment to my Forum III.  I think part of the reason is that we were all so heavily involved in the creation and production of these guitars from the point that they were just an ongoing discussion thread on this website, until they were shipped to our homes.  There were only 78 Forum III guitars built and mine is only 1 of 14 all mahogany guitars.  I believe that my Forum III is only 1 of 6 all Mahogany guitars with the herringbone purfling around the outside of the guitar so that makes it even more special.

Just for old times sake...here is a slideshow of all the photos documenting the production of the Forum III guitars.  For those of us who have a Forum III, this will bring back some smiles to your faces.

Forum III Guitar Production Photos

Jordan

Jordan; Thanks for the link to the pictures of the production of the Forum III. I am really glad you saved those. I was just looking at them and remembering the trip to Vancouver. What a "trip" the entire F-III experience was. Johnny Larrivee was so involved in this build and with us during the visit to the factory. ST showed up as well. OK I'll stop there.
   Except for one more note. When you look at all those pictures, the ones with people in them are happy and you see their "hands" involved in the build process. I know some would say these are NOT hand built guitars. But there is so much about them that is "hands on". As mikeymac said about his newest Larrivee recently, there were minor imperfections but that was what made it a hand built guitar. Something like that.
    The wood used on my F-III would not have been used on a 05 series or above. But it made my particular guitar very special to me. From the neck with the look of planets and the milky way in it (ebony) to the rippling mahogany "river" running across the back crosswise to the center seam making it look like one piece it is so well matched.
     The Italian spruce top is top quality with slight streaking and herringbone trim. It makes this simple understated LS model look very special with those 3 micro dots at the 12th fret.
     
       I was playing my jumbo 615ce Taylor last night and just put it back in the case after a few minutes. I wanted a "fuller sound". Which the F-III delivers. Yes "fuller" than a jumbo. A friend of my son's had dropped by and was in another room as I played the F-III. My nails were striking some of the treble strings and they rang out as I played my version of a Jackson Browne tune (Opening Farewell). He walked into the living room and said "Oh, I thought someone was playing a piano."
      That'd be the IS top. It will mellow over the years, but I enjoy the crisp, distinct ring of this little "gem" as TtP put it so well.
       Denis, I like my F-IV very much as well. Maybe I would like it more if I had the same experience in the build/receiving process. But that's water under the bridge. I do have it playing very well now and only need to make a bone saddle and nut for it.
        I remember the first time I played a Forum guitar. It was at Tad's house. He handed me a all hog OM. At that time I was all about rosewood so I wasn't open to hearing it's qualities. I'd like a chance to play a Forum I or II again someday. My F-IV has shown me just how sweet a tone an all mahogany guitar can produce.
     
           Maybe it's time to sell my Taylor Jumbo and order a Forum V.
       

[bluesman67]

 ....    The wood used on my F-III would not have been used on a 05 series or above. But it made my particular guitar very special to me. From the neck with the look of planets and the milky way in it (ebony) to the rippling mahogany "river" running across the back crosswise to the center seam making it look like one piece it is so well matched.
    The Italian spruce top is top quality with slight streaking and herringbone trim. It makes this simple understated LS model look very special with those 3 micro dots at the 12th fret.      
      I was playing my jumbo 615ce Taylor last night and just put it back in the case after a few minutes. I wanted a "fuller sound". Which the F-III delivers. Yes "fuller" than a jumbo. A friend of my son's had dropped by and was in another room as I played the F-III. My nails were striking some of the treble strings and they rang out as I played my version of a Jackson Browne tune (Opening Farewell). He walked into the living room and said "Oh, I thought someone was playing a piano."
     That'd be the IS top. It will mellow over the years, but I enjoy the crisp, distinct ring of this little "gem" as TtP put it so well...              

Now your just making me miss my FIII IS/RW!  I have no doubt that the FIII sounded fuller than the 615ce.  Mine sounded amazing and "piano-like" comes to mind.  Those FIIIs are gems for sure.  I would still have mine if I ordered a IS/hog.  As much as I love the tone of RW, I am unable to coax the best out of RW when I play one.