Larrivee vs OM-21 - similar or different?

[frankhond]

I have been thinking of getting a Martin OM-21. I have an LV-09 and I would like something to complement it with a "bluesier" sound, whatever that may be. I have seen several people here who own(ed) an OM-21. So I would appreciate some input.

Is an OM-21 fairly similar to the Larri, in which case I should consider, say, a Gibson instead? Or is the OM-21 different enough to stand up to the LV09 with a voice on its own?

Reason I'm asking is that where I live, there are many shops, but they all have the OM-21 special. This is a very nice guitar but supposedly sounds different from the regular OM-21. I have no way to try a regular OM-21 at this time.

[ducktrapper]

I recently compared a D-21 special with my 1975 L. I thought the Martin (which I liked a lot) was the most Larrivéesque Martin I've ever played. The owner of the store liked my guitar better, if that means anything. Happily, my cousin ended up buying it so I have visiting rights. If you like Larrivées but want a Martin, you could do a lot worse than the 21 series.   

[Denis]

The 21 series guitar are amazing.  I've played several OM-21 in the past and they were all good sounding guitars.  I think they're every bit as good as the 28s to be sure.  I would think an OM-09 would compare well to the Martin however, in general, Martins do have more bass but this isn't written in stone or anything.

[Pilgrim]

I've played both, but not side by side.  The OM-21 and OM-21 special have most of the major things in common (manufacturer, body size, woods, scale, bracing) and differ in mostly minor things (fingerboard material, bridge shape and spacing, and trim), and I would expect them to sound more similar than different.

I usually associate blues guitars with mahogany (B&S or all over) and/or a 12 fret body.  The best blusey Martins are argueably the 15 series.  But then again, Mr. Clapton did just fine with a short scale 000 14 fret rosewood Martin (an 000-42 or 000-28 IIRC) on Unplugged.

I wouldn't call my OM-05 a very bluesy guitar, but some of the Larrivees are worth a look as well.  Perhaps one of the limited run all Mahogany models, or possibly a 12 fret small body.

[pigtown]

I had an OM-21, and wouldn't call it a blues guitar at all.  It was clear sounding, with good sustain for both strumming and finger picking.  Perhaps you may want to consider something with a hog top??

[teh]

I have an OM-35 for fingerstyle and was able to play it next to two OM-21 standards, one OM-21 Special, and an OM-28V as well as several Larrivees. When my son comes to the house to play blues, he always grabs my Larrivee Parlor. Several around here don't like maple but I do.

If you want blusier, I would check out a mahogany topped Larrivee OM, Parlor or L or the new Martin 00-15M and 000-15M which have a modified oval neck. List price is higher than the standard 15 series but I would like to try one. Lots of goods reports on the 15M series 

[jeremy3220]

The OM-21 is plenty different. To me you get more variation with the OM-21 than you would with most Gibsons. The OM-21 has a similar bracing philosophy to the pre-war Martins played by many original blues recording artist. So it works well for a blues guitar if that's the sound you're going for. 

[AZLiberty]

If you want something "bluesy" sounding I'd look at a -15series Martin like the 000-15.  Possibly one of the old all mahogany Guilds like the D-25M.

The OM-21 sounds a lot like my OM-03R Larrivee, only not quite as responsive and "tighter".

[Danny]

The OM-21 is plenty different. To me you get more variation with the OM-21 than you would with most Gibsons. The OM-21 has a similar bracing philosophy to the pre-war Martins played by many original blues recording artist. So it works well for a blues guitar if that's the sound you're going for.  

I agree with this post more than all the others. Having owned an OM-21 for a few years (it left the house Tuesday) And many L model Larrivees. LV-03R, LSV-11, LSV-11e and a LS-03 MH/IS. I had many opportunities to play them side by side. Also I have many guitars in house all the time. Some are mine and some may be mine .
      The OM-21 that I had was nothing like a Larrivee sound whatsoever. Neither did it sound like any Gibson I have played. I have two here now. It also sounds different than Taylor, Lakewood,red label Yamaha's and just about anything else I've played.
 
       I have said a few times that I never played a Larrivee OM that sounded as rich and full as the OM-21 that I had. But mine was made in 1993 and well played in through lot's of gigs and I played it a lot in the time I owned it. The rosewood fretboard was beginning to show divots form all the play time.

      So I say go for the OM-21 in this case. I would still have mine if I was not asked to trade it for a much more expensive guitar. I believe a person can be very happy with just an OM-21. Including for playing blues. It's no bluegrass guitar but it does have a lot of bass and the rich overtones coming from the rosewood/sitka combo with the Martin scalloped X bracing. Which I know for sure does help give it that extra nice tone.

     I do not believe that a Martin 00 or 000-15 series will be anywhere as satisfying to you tone wise. They are subdued by the A modified bracing and are very low in "projection strength". The OM-21 has that in spades for a smaller bodied guitar. ( OM is the same basic size as 000 in Martin sizes)

     OK, nuff said. It's your choice now.   OM-21  

[Danny]

  I'd like to add a shorter post as well. I always enjoyed playing my OM-21 and my Forum III side by side. The OM-21 is 14 fret RW/Sitka. The F-III (LS-03) is 12 fret Mahogany/ Italian Spruce.

 They were both so distinctive in their tones. TOTALLY different from one another. One was like flowing water with lots of bubbling and resonating sounds all running over each other. The other was like a dry breeze blowing and whistling one distinct note after another. Both had lots of bass and high trebles.

 They were the best two ''distinctly different" guitars I've had at the same time,yet both fine examples of the builders, the tonewoods and they were so close to being the same size. Like a man and a women who really complimented each other.


                      OH GREAT... I think I miss my OM-21

[frankhond]

Thank you everyone for a very informative thread. I guess the blues connection comes from the youtube clips with Mississippi John Hurt and Stefan Grossman & Co playing some kind of OM guitars. The problem is as always that there is a guitar one might buy, but it's long distance - has to be shipped, and if no good, shipped back. On the other hand, a Gibson has manifested itself nearby. I don't normally go for Gibsons because they sounds dead to me, not at all responsive like Larrivees. But this one seems to be different. I'll make some kind of decision soon - will let you know.
 

[obe-wan]

If you want something "bluesy" sounding I'd look at a -15series Martin like the 000-15.  Possibly one of the old all mahogany Guilds like the D-25M.

The OM-21 sounds a lot like my OM-03R Larrivee, only not quite as responsive and "tighter".

Hey AZ, I agree with you about the -15 series being great Blues guitars, they've got that dry woody tone that you hear on the old recordings. Gotta disagree about the OM-03R - OM-21 comparison though. I used to own an OM-03R and now own an OM-21. My experience is the opposite, the Martin is more responsive and resonant, with a deeper bass. The Larrivee was more balanced (well, we all know that dont we) but didnt have the vibrant tone of the Martin.

As for a Blues tone? depends what you consider "The Blues Tone". Alot of guys from the 60's blues revival era played mahogany b&s spruce topped Gibsons, some played all mahogany Guilds, others Rosewood b&s spruce topped Martins...... Im very happy with the sounds Im getting out of my OM-21, and Im predominantly a blues player.

As for the original question, Is the OM-21 alot different than your Larrivee? Yep.  

Heres me playing my OM-21.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PnV_Gpa06o&feature=related

Cheers, Scott.

[Danny]

  I happened to play some 15 series Martins today and as every other time I was under impressed with the 14 fret models. The 000-15S was nicer in tone but I truly believe the F-IV beats it by a country mile in bass and full sound range. It did have old strings though.
  I guess if you mean the ole Harmony style bluesy sound the 15 series probably is similar. Harmony made a huge amount of small bodied all mahogany guitars. Ladder braced, inexpensive and durable. Still a lot of them around today. 99% of them need a neck reset though, and the tops are imploding due to the ladder bracing.

[AZLiberty]

Gotta disagree about the OM-03R - OM-21 comparison though.


Cheers, Scott.

It's probably not a fair comparison, since every OM-21 I have played was brand new, and my OM-03R is around 12 years old, but all of the -21s I have played seemed tight, and you had to really dig in to get them to sound good.  (I have been told repeatedly that the -21 really opens up after a year or two of playing though)

[obe-wan]

It's probably not a fair comparison, since every OM-21 I have played was brand new, and my OM-03R is around 12 years old, but all of the -21s I have played seemed tight, and you had to really dig in to get them to sound good.  (I have been told repeatedly that the -21 really opens up after a year or two of playing though)

Hey AZ, yeah fair enough call. Theres also the "not every guitar, even if its the same model sounds the same". I played 4 Martin OM-21s before I found "The One".

My Martin started opening up within a few months and now after just over a year its sounding glorious! (sorry about the bragging, I really love this guitar).

I do miss the OM-03R from time to time though. 

Cheers, Scott.

[teh]

To determine which you like better, you have to find a way to play an OM-21 against your LV-09 and have a friend play both of them for you.

I attended a clinic at Trinity Guitars yesterday with Martin Guitar clinician Richard Starkey who played a variety of Martins including a custom "0" model and he finished with a comparison between a used OM-28V and an OM-1 (With stratabond neck) which comes in well under the price point of many competitor's guitars in it's price range, a Full sized HPL Dread and a little Martin. During his performance/presentation, he explained that his favorite guitar is his 1976 Martin HD-28 but he reiterated that every guitar has it's own voice. As an example, he compared a standard D-18 against a D-18VS (12 fret slotted headstock) and an D-18 Golden Era.

[frankhond]

I fully agree with the try before you buy principle. I tried Larrivees for 2 years before I found mine.

I have decided to postpone the OM quest until I can try some OM-21's.

In the meantime, I have been secretly sneaking into the local Gibson dealer trying and comparing the brown guitars. Yesterday, I did something I thought would never happen. I walked out with a used L-00 Blues King - it's a reissue from 1995 and this is the deep body and long scale version with spruce/mahogany which they made for a few years but now is discontinued. It's almost as deep as my LV's but from the front it has the small L-00 body. I have been playing t now and then for the last year, not really believing my ears, how good sounded. I have tried many blues kings and they basically have a nasty plonk-sound, because they have a shallower body, shorter scale, and bubinga body. Not this one, warm, shimmery, smokey.... A more different guitar than my Larris I can't imagine.

I'll post pictures in a new thread when I get a chance.

[Danny]

Hey AZ, yeah fair enough call. Theres also the "not every guitar, even if its the same model sounds the same". I played 4 Martin OM-21s before I found "The One".

My Martin started opening up within a few months and now after just over a year its sounding glorious! (sorry about the bragging, I really love this guitar).

I do miss the OM-03R from time to time though.  

Cheers, Scott.

I can't believe it's been a year already.

I fully agree with the try before you buy principle. I tried Larrivees for 2 years before I found mine.

I have decided to postpone the OM quest until I can try some OM-21's.

In the meantime, I have been secretly sneaking into the local Gibson dealer trying and comparing the brown guitars. Yesterday, I did something I thought would never happen. I walked out with a used L-00 Blues King - it's a reissue from 1995 and this is the deep body and long scale version with spruce/mahogany which they made for a few years but now is discontinued. It's almost as deep as my LV's but from the front it has the small L-00 body. I have been playing t now and then for the last year, not really believing my ears, how good sounded. I have tried many blues kings and they basically have a nasty plonk-sound, because they have a shallower body, shorter scale, and bubinga body. Not this one, warm, shimmery, smokey.... A more different guitar than my Larris I can't imagine.

I'll post pictures in a new thread when I get a chance.

That's the size of Gibson I like. Similar to a Nick Lucas deep body. A little note about one early Gibson model that size. They made the body depth almost the same from the end pin to the neck, very little taper to it.
  I have a hand made guitar that is made to those similar specs. But the neck is a tragedy.

[teh]

Congratulations on a nice guitar. Sounds like it hung on the wall for a while and found a good home. A reissue gives you the benefits of new technology coupled with a time tested design.

I just learned yesterday that I can order a Martin 0-16NY or a 12 fret slot head D-35 (Both discontinued models) from their custom shop.

[frankhond]

Thanks, this is possibly the nicest gibson I ever tried. It took some time to figure out what it was though.

The guitar is black, so you don't see the woods (I had to peek through the soundhole and it took some figuring that the back was mahogany), and the long scale and deep body was a mystery for a long time. So this one got me on the basis on sound and feel alone. "Pure attraction"or something like that.