Forum V Cedar top and walnut b/s.

[jamesb1101]

Thanks Mikeymac, I got sidetracked as well...

-James

[AZLiberty]

Well maybe they're moving the Oxnard plant to Tacoma so they can pick from the best workers from the old Guild factory and be closer to the Vancouver plant. Its a long way from Oxnard to Vancouver and Jean goes back and forth between plants, I hear.
Just a thought, we did have that member/employee awhile back that said they were closing the Oxnard plant.

There would be some short term pain, but long term that would be a pretty keen business decision IMHO.

[Danny]

As I've shared before, I don't get real excited about walnut. I might be more tempted if it were something different, like an LS, LJ, or Jumbo body size in an 09 walnut. Or, if there are enough orders, maybe we could have a choice between walnut b/s or flamed maple b/s (as was done on the Forum III - choise of woods; same model) ... now flamed maple - THAT would tempt me in any of the above body sizes (or even a regular L).

Did I pull this thread back on track, after the hijack? 

If this does result in a forum guitar this thread will meander like the Mississippi running across the northern states and finally tuning south until it dumps into the gulf.
                Check out the book(s), called the F-III threads.

[dermot]

  Webber makes some nice cedar topped round bodies. Like a custom Larrivee.

If a cedar top is absolutly key, and Larrivee is not going to build with it, then i would be looking at David Webber, not alot more cash than an 09 either.... i have mine already tho ;-)

d.

[Stephen Basil]

   If this does result in a forum guitar this thread will meander like the Mississippi running across the northern states and finally tuning south until it dumps into the gulf.
                Check out the book(s), called the F-III threads.

Well, with Larrivee putting the kibosh on the cedar top... and a line of L-03's with walnut bodies in the works, it looks like this F-V configuration is dead in the Mississippi mud.  I'm listening to what Dermot has to say!

[Danny]

Well, with Larrivee putting the kibosh on the cedar top... and a line of L-03's with walnut bodies in the works, it looks like this F-V configuration is dead in the Mississippi mud.  I'm listening to what Dermot has to say!

I was the one to mentioned to try Webber for a cedar top. Simply because d. is one of the coolest forum members I have ever met and he lent me his Webber round body while I was in Vancouver to pick up my F-III last year.
                Webber is clearly a disciple of JCL.

[Denis]

  I was the one to mentioned to try Webber for a cedar top. Simply because d. is one of the coolest forum members I have ever met and he lent me his Webber round body while I was in Vancouver to pick up my F-III last year.
                Webber is clearly a disciple of JCL.

Yeah, if a cedar top is what you're looking for, then Webber would seem to be a great choice as builders go. 

That all mahogany parlor I owned years ago..I got that from a fellow forum member, Pjmsj21.  He was getting a custom mahogany/red cedar roundbody made.  It wasn't fancy but it was probably a great sounding instrument.  I dream of trying a Webber one day.

[norton]

I wonder if they had some bad experiences with cedar?  My second Larrivee was a stunning rosewood dreadnought with a cedar top.  It turned out to be way more than I wanted as I had to palm damp it all the time.  I don't ever remember another guitar building up rolling sound like that one.  I suppose to the right person it would have been spectacular?  The only bad thing I've ever heard about cedar was that it can burn out over time and lose tone.  If true, I didn't have mine near long enough to comment on that.

[jamesb1101]

If this doesn't work out, I am still a Larrivee fan, but may have to start looking at Webber's, Anybody have anything to say negative about them.

-James

[Danny]

If this doesn't work out, I am still a Larrivee fan, but may have to start looking at Webber's, Anybody have anything to say negative about them.

-James

Maybe ducktrapper will.

[Mikeymac]

I wonder if they had some bad experiences with cedar?   My second Larrivee was a stunning rosewood dreadnought with a cedar top.  It turned out to be way more than I wanted as I had to palm damp it all the time.  I don't ever remember another guitar building up rolling sound like that one.  I suppose to the right person it would have been spectacular?  The only bad thing I've ever heard about cedar was that it can burn out over time and lose tone.  If true, I didn't have mine near long enough to comment on that.

I don't think they had any 'problems' with cedar...and to say that wood 'can burn out over time and lose tone' goes against the logic that as wood ages, and it matures and hardens, it actually sounds better - I would assume this is true of cedar as well as spruce.  The properties of the woods, and the aging and physical/biological changing of each species would be similar (cedar and spruce are similar woods).

I think Larrivee just found that spruce is a better tonewood for what they want to hear from their guitars, and I look for the same thing. Sure, cedar can be 'warm' right away, but to my ears, it does give up some of the clarity and power of spruce (as you mentioned - the ability to overdrive the top of your cedar dread).

Even on a classical, I much prefer spruce - it just maintains clarity and can handle being driven harder for more volume. And over time, spruce does mature and sound wonderful, especially on a well designed, well built guitar - steel or nylon string. I find it instructive that Larrivee even prefers spruce for his classicals (when he builds them) and has for years.

[Mikeymac]

Off topic - so, did David Webber work for Larrivee at one time? It's been sorta implied here, but not said outright... 

[Danny]

YES

[tadol]

Cedar is also softer, and shows marks and scrapes easily, making it a more difficult wood to work with in a production environment. I would bet that they felt it didn't add enough benefit for the hassles it added. Just my guess -

[Denis]

Off topic - so, did David Webber work for Larrivee at one time? It's been sorta implied here, but not said outright... 

YES

And I seem to remember reading somewhere that JCL was a major supplier of cedar even though he doesn't use it for his own guitars...

[LawDogStrgsAttach]

If this doesn't work out, I am still a Larrivee fan, but may have to start looking at Webber's, Anybody have anything to say negative about them.

-James

I have nothing negative to say, but I think this got offtrack.  If you like Larrivee, but want a custom/boutique grade guitar or want more wood options, then you need to think MORGAN GUITARS!...not webber.

David Iannone's guitars (Morgan) are spec'd after Larrivee, and he was a long-time employee.  Tops are planed to specific thickness, forward-shifted bracing, and a few aesthtic differences, but otherwise a thoroughbred Larrivee.  Prices are excellent considering boutique.

I own both Morgan and Webber, and I think Morgan is a cut above anyway.

Call Jason at NOtable. 

[Stephen Basil]

Morgan guitars are definitely a must see, as are Northwoods.  Both build with cedar/redwood and are within the Larrivee "family."  I have a cedar topped classical that I really like.  If it were a matter of settling on one guitar, I would go with a spruce topped guitar, but I'm looking at getting a third one and have two Larries.  I have a sitka OM that I love, and it is very different sounding from my Italian topped F-III, which is less comfortable for me to play because of its smaller size.  I'm looking to add an L body in the future, and because I'm learning to play strictly finger style, I think a cedar topped L-size (or the Morgan Concert) would be distinctive enough from what I already have.  I spent a long time playing a ten year old O sized Lowden recently and could really appreciate why that manufacturer favours cedar/walnut... Interestingly, Lowden built two models for Bensusan, one with a cedar top, the other with spruce.  The spruce topped guitar was picked even though it was replacing a very old cedar Lowden:

http://en.audiofanzine.com/lowden/medias/a.play,m.1663.html

[JOYCEfromNS]

http://en.audiofanzine.com/lowden/medias/a.play,m.1663.html

Nice link Stephen. Great detailed interview. The Devil is in the Bevel - wish there was more beveling

[Stephen Basil]

I loved that quip too, Joyce... it smacks of Irishness!

[alvinlam]

Don't mean to sidetrack this thread but why wouldn't JCL want to build cedar top guitars?  Was it due to bad experiences from cedar supplier (I know, it sounds so naive), or this particular wood isn't able to withstand the bracing pattern that made his guitars famous?  Don't mean to imply anything; just asking. 

I'd be interested in an L-09 with cedar top/walnut (actually wouldn't it be great to have rosewood as alternate choice?).