Has anyone got a really worn Larrivee?

[obe-wan]

Gday folks,

Markyboys post got me thinking, I was really hoping it was ugly!

Yep, we've all seen pics of our pride and joy guitars, all polished and shiny. You know how it goes "its got a small ding in the top where I bumped it one time, but other than that its mint".

I want to see a pic of a really road worn Larrivee with lots of character, does anyone have one or have a pic of one?

Cheers, Scott.

[GA-ME]

Mine is getting pretty beat up. I don't have a camera that is good enough to pick up all the fingernail scratches around the soundhole and above the low E from thumb-pick snapping(ala Sam Chatmon) and diggin in and such. The frets are just about shot. I leveled them again, a few string changes ago, and the next time they get pitted they will need to be replaced. The ebony fingerboard is actually starting to wear in with divots from the second fret up to about the ninth and she has lots and lots of battle scars. The back of the neck has a long spot where the finish has worn down and sweat and oils are staining it nicely. There are countless marks and dings along the back of the neck as well. I estimate she has between 3000- 3500 hours of playing time on her and she has provided untold hours of enjoyment. In short, she is used to make music and she is loved for what she is: an instrument.

Here is a thread with a couple of picks of some of her lumps:  http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=29665.0

[obe-wan]

Thats cool GA-ME,  

I must have missed that thread, thanks for the link!

I um'd and are'd about putting a pick up in the Martin.....I see now why you made the comment "I dont understand the concept of a gigging guitar". 

There all gigging guitars, arent they...use it or lose it. 

Cheers, Scott.

[leerichards]

GA-ME, at what point do you decide that your frets are too pitted and need levelling? Is it when they begin buzzing? And now that you've taken them down so far, do you adjust the action at the saddle or just leave the extra action height as it develops? And what are your thoughts on fitting stainless steel frets which would never pit? I've often wondered why they aren't fitted as standard in steel string guitars or at least some alloy which is a lot harder than the steel strings are. Are they just too much trouble in the fitting process? Lots of questions there, so I hope it's not overwhelming. Thanks, Rick. 

[Parlor Picker]

Scott - are you hoping somebody will have an old Larrivée for sale at a really cheap price because of the condition, so you can come back into the Larri fold?? 

[obe-wan]

Scott - are you hoping somebody will have an old Larrivée for sale at a really cheap price because of the condition, so you can come back into the Larri fold?? 

Im tipping there will be a post from me around half way through next year saying "Obe-wans new P-03!!!".

All things going to plan of course!

Cheers, Scott.

[GA-ME]

GA-ME, at what point do you decide that your frets are too pitted and need levelling? Is it when they begin buzzing? And now that you've taken them down so far, do you adjust the action at the saddle or just leave the extra action height as it develops? And what are your thoughts on fitting stainless steel frets which would never pit? I've often wondered why they aren't fitted as standard in steel string guitars or at least some alloy which is a lot harder than the steel strings are. Are they just too much trouble in the fitting process? Lots of questions there, so I hope it's not overwhelming. Thanks, Rick.  

Rick, when the divots in the frets get to the point that fretting those particular notes cleanly gets difficult is when I clean them up. For instance, say you have a substantial amount of pitting in and around the first three frets, and in particular, lets say the D note at the third fret of the B string is getting deep. When you go to fret an A form, B-minor barre chord, and all the strings fret easily and cleanly, at a given pressure, except that D note. When the pit is deep, you will have to push extra hard, in comparison to the other strings, to get it to fret cleanly. At this point, it needs to be addressed for me. It's a matter of looking at the frets and playing the guitar to see how it feels to determine whether it's time to bring the frets down and level them. It is also an issue of playability in regards to bending, sliding, especially with the pinky, and vibrato when you start getting deep divots in the frets.

Now as far as height for action, you aren't exactly talking about removing a lot of material from the frets. They are only in the neighborhood of .035, or roughly 1/32" +/- when they are new, depending on the particular fretwire on an individual guitar, so it's not exactly an issue with leveling the frets and ending up with substantially, or even noticeably, higher action. As you level, you are removing material in the thousandths of an inch. The last time I leveled, I did finally have to adjust, very slightly, at the nut, as the strings were high enough, in comparison to the lowered frets, that they were going sharp when fretted in the first position though.

As for stainless frets, I imagine they would be really great, but I don't know as I haven't played any guitars with them installed. What I do know is that re-fretting with stainless requires expensive, specialized, diamond impregnated files as the stainless eats up regular tools like they are candy. I used to work with stainless sheet metal and we always had to buy very high quality aviation nips and titanium drill bits when working with it because it really eats an edge on a tool up. My hands still carry several scars from working stainless sheet metal and not wearing my Kevlar gloves! A re-fret in stainless would take longer to complete, I am sure, as it would be much harder getting the stainless frets cut, installed, and properly dressed and leveled. You might want to ask Unclerob about re-frets in stainless as I seem to remember him posting that he was currently doing them and he would be better able to tell you about the differences as I haven't used them before.

[flatlander]

My old L-10 isn't beat to pieces but it's got quite a few knocks. But I thinks it exudes mojo. From just the guitar itself. then the pretty deep darkening of it. I'll post pictures later that I already have but right now it's getting all these things your talking about addressed, actually it's ready, but I won't be able to get it probably til after xmas.
My take on the frets wearing may be a little different, which kinda scares me cause I know GA-ME knows a a lot about guitars. But for little ole me it's like this.
The fret need attention when that note buzzes. Make sure everything else is ok, like the saddle and neck adjustment. If the problem is the fret, it doesn't seem any harder to play, and even if it does pressing harder isn't going to make it fret cleanly. It's buzzing because it's not clearing fret(s) above it. So those frets need to come down, or raise (replace) the offending fret. Then probably dressing the next 2 or 3 up from that. At some point they all need dressed as they get out of whack and uneven across the neck.
I have long sworn by stainless steel frets. Iv'e had them on L-10 for over 20 years. And for most they will last forever. I managed to go thru 1 set after over 10 years, but a lot of that was playing as the only acoustic in an otherwise electric band. Rockin sweating ect. The ones that I've had since then for 10 years or more are fine. Just getting a touch up now. Yes harder for tech to shape for sure. Worth it to me.
Can't stand annoying buzzes cropping up every 6 months. I'll post pictures later.

[GA-ME]

Flantlander, I agree with what you are saying but you are talking about leveling for a different reason than wear divots. If there is a high fret yes there will be buzzing which may require a fret to be reseated or perhaps the frets might need to be leveled and dressed. Conversely, there could be a low fret in front of other frets that results in the need to bring the other frets in level with the low point due to geometry changes in the instrument. You know, like the dreded 12th or 14th fret hump which requires the extension frets be brought down so playability is maintained in the upper register. That is where making up a couple of fret rockers and putting them to use comes into play.

I was just speaking about the need for leveling resulting from wearing divots into the frets from playing which is what Rick was asking about in regards to my original post. How ya like that, two, or more, different problems that have the same solution! Yikes, that just reminded me of those extraneous solutions, in mathematics, that need to be plugged back into the equation to test if they are correct or not. It is way to early to be thinking about math!

[ducktrapper]

Well, I used to. My 1975, being my only acoustic for 25 years, was dinged, scratched and cracked, aged and somewhat battered. It went to the spa in Oxnard a couple years ago and came back all shiny and like brand new. The only things not changed or redone were the old Grovers. I lost all the groovy aging and that's too bad, so much for the original patina, but I like it better now. Here's before and after shots. The centre crack is repaired but I waited too long and they couldn't make it disappear. That's what happens if you don't humidify kids! 

[flatlander]

She's a winner Duck. The before picture and the pickguard suprised me. I guess it had that originally and they didn't switch to clear til a couple years later?
Ditto on the humidity. Mine held up great without paying the attention it deserved early but later developed a couple small hard to see cracks, which are repaired. I think probably the older guitar gets, the more you have to pay attention, because I'm sure it was exposed to dryer conditions when it was young, than it was when it cracked.

[flatlander]

Well Mr GA-ME I'm still confused, but this is all I'm gonna say cause I'm not an expert and that's why I let my guy analyze and fix stuff. Often he see's things just by looking that I don't see.  So last comment on the frets thing. We're talking about have a guitar that's fine. Then the fret gets worn,flattened down. (divot makes me think of fingerboard, but we're talking fret) That lowers that fret causing it to lower string when fretted hence not having the clearence over frets above it. String buzzes of the fret it doesn't clear well enough.
The the 12th fret scenario I'm wondering about too. I'll just speak of how mine was. The strings or a couple, were buzzing off frets where hump is. The solution was to bring the frets down where hump is, not the extension frets of over the body.
Enough about that. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance, and when I get L-10 back from getting fixed up on these exact issues we're talking about, I'll make a point to grill Mark about what he did. It's basically getting an all emcompassing set up. New saddle, nut tweaked, frets leveled, fret board smoothed out from some pretty deep worn spots. He said it's playing like butter again.

[ducktrapper]

The pickguard is a long story. The guitar originally had a clear pickguard which started peeling up (should have alerted me that the humidity was a problem) and getting dirt under the edge, I removed it without difficulty and used it without p.g. for a while. Then my room mate's friend scratched the crap out of it one night while I was sleeping. Very ugly, long, arcing, pick marks. I put the p.g. on to cover them up. Then it cracked and things got worse but I've learned and all's well that ends well. Humidity in the guitar room as of ten minutes ago, 45%.

[leerichards]

Thanks, GA-ME and others who contributed. A good set of answers that adds to the stock of shared knowledge. Rock on Forum.  My L03R is less than two years old and even though I play with a light touch and play all over the board, there is some denting under 2,3,4 on B & e. I'm miles away from a dressing yet, but more knowledge is better. So thanks, guys.  Rick

[dave42]

What?? No cool worn Larrivee pics????

[flatlander]

Well here's some pics. I left them big to try to show dings (wierd) but they really don't show that well except headstock.  The worst ones are along the edge of lower bout. The fingerboard was quite pitted too but that's been fixed in the last couple weeks. I replaced the original case and it went to the dump, but it told a story in itself. Too bad strawintogold doesn't seem to be around, she could have a nice little stroke.  So not super beat up but really puts out the vibe. Always did really but the darkening sweets it up. 1980 model, bought it new.

[GA-ME]

Flatlander, that case was the bombdiggity!

[flatlander]

So you noticed to "no bombs" sticker. My favorite was the OLD mescal label with the worm. That was some good stuff too that friend found that he had brought back from Mexico forever ago and forgot about.

[Walkerman]

Flatlander...that is one of the finest sets of bookmatched rosewood I have ever seen.  Just hellaciously awesome.

[flatlander]

Flatlander...that is one of the finest sets of bookmatched rosewood I have ever seen.  Just hellaciously awesome.

Thanks, That's a real compliment coming from someone with as fine a collection as you.