Botched saddle ideas

[Gregg E]

Hi All,

I just installed a Colosi bone saddle for my OM-03 this weekend.  I've done this successfully for other guitars, but I botched this one.  Without going into the bone-headed (pun intended) details, the high E string is sitting too low. This is causing a pretty shallow break angle, and the low tension on the string is such that I can almost slide it off the fretboard when doing a pull-off. The B string seems to be OK and the rest are also.  Has anyone tried shimming an individual string, not from under the saddle, but by putting a small shim between the top of the saddle and the string?  Seems like if I try to put a small shim just at the end of the treble side under the saddle I'll mess up contact between the rest of the saddle and the bridge and defeat the whole purpose.  (I also don't have any bone shims, so this is going to be a wing it job no matter what I do.)  Lost cause?

Thanks,

Gregg

[jeremy3220]

Glue a shim to the bottom of the saddle and sand at an angle... or if you need to you can glue the shim on the bottom and lower the string contact points individually. Use a piece of hardwood as the shim.

[Gregg E]

You're right Jeremy.  Using a proper shim and starting over with the sanding is probably the proper fix.  Thanks for the dope slap!   

Gregg

[Richard III]

without starting a new thread, here is a similar problem.  I bought my Larrivee on EBAy.  I like this guitar a lot--plays easily, good mid-tone, sustain, all the usual I love my Larrivee stuff.  However, it is an 0m-05 and the  low E buzzes a moderate amount, my A buzzes a little, and my high E also can be pulled off the fret. 

I'm hesitating on attacking these problems, but is this a job for a luthier and a new set-up? 

Suggestions gladly welcomed.

richard III

[unclrob]

Richard get the guitar setup.


Gregg E get a new saddle and when working out hieght DON'T sand the bottom with that stupid angle down on the high E side try and match the radious of the finger board,there is NO need for this drop down of the saddle.

[Richard III]

OKay. Will do.  I don't feel confident attacking this myself.  It's too good an instrument to mess with.

[unclrob]

As I tell all in if you feel shakey at all have a trusted pro look it over and if the work is needed do it ,well worth it in the end.

[Gregg E]

Yes sir unclrob SIR!!!   

[unclrob]

My father was the "Sir" in my house I'm just plain ol'e unclrob.......

[jeremy3220]

DON'T sand the bottom with that stupid angle down on the high E side try and match the radious of the finger board,there is NO need for this drop down of the saddle.

I recommend you do because the lower strings will buzz easier than the higher... most people have the treble side lower than the bass because if you make the string height for each string low as possible without buzzing that's what you'll probably end up with. I make my own saddles these days and set up each string to whatever height I want, I don't follow any strict rules. What works for one person or guitar may not work best for another.

[leerichards]

Gregg & Richard, I do exactly as Jeremy does so that the higher strings have a proportionately lower action. Unclrob, can you clarify what you are getting at - are you suggesting that you make your saddles of uniform height all the way across? Wouldn't that make your action at 12 the same on every string, as Jeremy implies? BTW for finishing the bottom of a saddle, I place a flat file (no handle) on the bench and run the saddle along the file taking care not to rock the saddle from side to side. It ensires a perfectly flat bottom on the saddle. I also check the bottom of the saddle for square to ensure that it makes full contact with the bottom of the groove. Lee.

[unclrob]

I shape my saddles to the radious of the neck,this way I don't need to have one side lower/higher.I can get very low action without any buzzing



but hay what do I know.

[Richard III]

Uncle Rob,
I emailed a well known guitar store in NYC about a set-up. TOld them the problem, the make and model and asked for a px quote on a set-up.  Ya know what they said?  "We don't work on foreign guitars as they are usually so poorly made as to make it not worth our while."  Swear to God. 
I've got some other responses for a set-up, tho.
richard III

[unclrob]

Richard I'd love to hear/read them,PM me or email me,I love to know.

[jeremy3220]

I shape my saddles to the radious of the neck,this way I don't need to have one side lower/higher.I can get very low action without any buzzing

I guess my reasoning is if you set the Low E as low as it will go with out buzzing... let's just say .100" in theory, the High E can be set even lower with out buzzing like around .075" probably. So it's not that you have to have one side lower but that you can.

[leerichards]

Thanks, Unclrob. I misread your post and interpreted it as saying "don't sand the bottom....OR match the radius of the fingerboard". So in fact we work the same way. After preparing the blank to thickness etc I shape the top to the correct radius THEN file the bottom of the saddle to achieve my desired height ie the bottom of the saddle remains straight and true throughout its length although it will have less height at the treble end than at the bass end when it is finished as Jeremy says. Then as Jeremy also says, there is still work to be done up top to tweak each string. If we were working side by side, there'd be no arguments between us (not about that anyway) - maybe the occasional donut might get thrown, but that's it .....   Come to think of it, I suspect that you might, like me, be a man of mature years - so maybe we'd just roll the donut along the benchtop to save throwing our shoulders out.  Lee

[unclrob]

Lee why waste a donut rollin back and forth,we need to just eat it and drink coffee.

What I was saying is most everyone I know sands the high "E" lower,you don't have to if the top of the saddle is radious correctly.Matching the fingerboard radious automatically sets both "E's" lower.This allows bar chords to be played move evenly because the barring finger has a natural radious press down that if the High"E" sits lower you can get a buzz due to uneven preasure.Now I can't tell you what my stuff measure's out at as I don't really care because every guitar sets up different.If a client wants action as low as possible thats what I'll give them,beleive me I like very low action.No argument here its just that I'm really trying to get people to look at this with a different eye.Yes I understand what Jeremy is saying,I just saying you don't have to if you radious the saddle.


I just read this and notice I just keep repeating myself repeating myself repeating myself repeating myself.I need a drink back in ten.