Tell me about playing a hog top

[AZLiberty]

All right, I didn't want to hijack the F-IV thread.

I've never owned a hog top guitar, and I've never seen a Larrivee hog top.  The only all 'hog guitars I've seen or played has been the Martin 15 series, and I've never been that big a fan.  They always seem kind of dead compared to a spruce top or (my favorite) cedar.

Now, I never did learn how to use a flat pick, and I haven't used a thumb pick since I can't recall when, just fingers.  So my question is, do these smaller mahogany toped guitars respond well to playing with bare fingers, or are they something that really shines with a flat pick?

[Zohn]

Yeah, I'm very curious too about the qualities of especially Larrivee MT-models - I have actually played Martin 15-series before, but I must say I wasn't too impressed. In their defense they were brand new, and that could've been a reason...
The 05-MTs look very appetizing indeed!!

[AZLiberty]

What, all the hog top lovers on here and no one actually plays them?

[tuffythepug]

AZLiberty

I do play my Larrivee hogtops but I'm not sure how much help I would be to you.   I'm terrible at describing tone and nuances of one guitar over another.  Let me just say this:  I am not necessarily a hogtop lover in every case.   I too had a Martin hogtop that I never bonded with and I didn't care for the sound much at all.  After a few years of hoping in would improve I just sold it.   Never thought about hogtops again for a long time until I got the urge to try a 000-50MT.   It turned out to be a monster of a guitar (you can see it in the photo section, and it will be the GOTM in Dec. I guess)   Then I got involved in the Forum III project last year and opted for the all mahogany version like several others.   I can only say that I've really fallen for the sound of these hogtops.  Can I explain it ?  no probably not very well.  Others, I'm sure will give you their take on it.    Bluesman67 is a big hogtop lover;   (his band is hogtop charlotte)  he may chime in on this thread.

Small bodied hogtops just work real well for me.

I also have two spruce-top Larrivees that are very nice as well.  I just prefer the hog.

T

[Denis]

I've had two and the were completely different.  One was an OM-05MT that I kept for only a few months.  The other was an a lively little all mahogany parlor.  No overtones and not as bright as a spruce top but surprising bass and sustain, very warm. 

The FIV will have a full scale and a 12 fret neck.  I've had a P-03MT and a OO-50...I'm kinda hoping this new 00-03MT will be the best of both worlds.  And I'll still have my FIII...  

[Mikeymac]

Think about the tone of mahogany sides and back versus rosewood...it's usually more focused on the mids...not as much of a smiley curve to the eq of the tone..it will still have nice highs, but they won't be as sparkly or open sounding as on an rosewood guitar.  Add a hog top, and it adds more of this element over a spruce or cedar top, but certainly not overkill when done right, in my opinion.

You said you didn't like the Martin 15 series guitars you tried, and I think part of it is that they do need more force - either from a pick or fingerpicks - to get the top moving.  I've played a variety of the Martin 15 series, and liked quite a few, but some were certainly much better than others.  My favorites were the larger bodied ones, like the slope shoulder dread and J model (don't know what it is, actually, but it looks like an oversized OM) and the slothead models...some nice sounding dreadnaughts, too.  I almost bought one at Southpaw Guitars in Houston back when they first came out.

Another tone that hog tops remind me of is Gibson J-45's with hog back and sides...the shorter scale of the Gibsons makes them almost sound like they have a hog top, even though it's really spruce. It's kind of that boom-chucka - boom-cucka sound...it has more thump to it than sparkle.

I think Larrivee's hog tops are more refined than the Martins, so the sound will be easier to pull out of them...but YMMV.

[prof_stack]

I've had three hog-tops and now have none.  The F-IV will likely be my last attempt to bond with a MT.

The L-03MT had a brighter tone than the cult classic 000-15S I had.  I preferred the Martin and sold the Larrivee.  The Martin left the house later when the tone just didn't work with my ears.  I didn't lose any money selling the Martin after a year.

I think string changes are more important on the hog-tops.  Tusq saddles might work better, too.  YMMV.

[Mikeymac]

I think string changes are more important on the hog-tops.  Tusq saddles might work better, too.  YMMV.

And also possibly going up one string gauge, as someone metioned...to help drive the top.  With a good set-up, medium strings aren't that much harder to play than lights (depending somewhat on your technique, of course). 

[AZLiberty]

I think the Martin -15s are probably a bit overbraced.  They can sound really nice when played with a flatpick, with a lot more clarity than a spruce top, but as a result they seem kind of dead when played with bare fingers.

So my real question is how well does a small bodied hog top Larrivee respond to playing with bare fingers as opposed to fingerpicks or a flatpick?

[Mr_LV19E]

I sent you a PM.

[Vancouver Southpaw]

Well, as someone who wound up with two F-III's, one all-hog and one IS/RW, I've had an almost unique opportunity to compare the two side by side and they're both keepers as far as I'm concerned.

As one would expect, the IS/RW is the brighter of the two but the all-hog isn't far behind and it's a very easy adjustment for my ears to play it (wish I could whip 'em out right now as aural memory is really short, but I just about sliced off the tip of a fretting finger while making dinner tonight - no playing for me for a few days at least).

I think an apt analogy would be between the sound of a CD and the sound of a record. The IS/RW is the CD, the all-hog is the LP. The CD is brighter and most likely louder (though a good phono stage goes a long way to remedy this) but the LP in the long run is a more comfortable, blended kind of sound, without any particular frequency range sticking out. It has its' own, more subtle beauty.

Maybe this analogy is of limited use - it's all subjective after all, and ultimately I like the sound of both guitars. The all-hog will never be a cannon, but if you're considering a small-bodied guitar that's probably not a priority anyway.

Cheers, Mike

[Dotneck]

I've got both tops on the F3 I have a rosewood/IS and a hogtop. My forum 1 OM is sitka /mahogany.  The OM and the LS are very close in tone. The spruce has a little more sparkle and the all hog is a little warmer sounding. The rosewood is a different beast altogether compared to mahogany...

Don't know that I like one more than the other...they are just different. All hog = warm and woody while the spruce/hog = a little more sparkle in the tone.

[jwb]

AZ,

FYI I have to add my 2 cents here, too.  I love my OM-03MT and I play it mostly with bare fingers and a little nail.  It's a tad bright for some ears on the treble, but the bass response and midrange are simply enormous, round and warm.  You can strum it or play it fingerstyle no problem.  This is the secret:  you have to wait a good long time for it to reach it's potential.  They loosen up rather slowly and I imagine will sound even better in a decade.  IMO, all Larrivee's are too heavily braced and the poly finish is a drawback to sound quality, but those features also make the guitar a sturdy little dude that will be around for a long time with good care.  After a few years of playing, mine opened up into a wonderful instrument.  I changed the strings the other day, and the fretboard is starting to look like one of the "reliced" jobs from the the fender custom shop, with all the smooth, bare spots across the striped ebony fretboard from so much playing.  That's too cool! 

I have bought and sold several really nice, way too expensive guitars and my "lowly" OM-03 "hog top" stays.  It's hanging on the wall where I can always get to it.  I've gone through 2 customs (6 grand each), a collings, a bourgeois...need I say more?  It has a tone and a feel I love, and it makes great music.  It's good enough for me.  I think it's the best guitar Larrivee makes and I've been through a whole mess of them (that was a hard habit to break!  But is was a fun ride, albeit an expensive one).  My only other recommendation, if money is not an issue, is to look at the Santa Cruz new Depression Era series 0, 00, and 000 guitars.  They are affordable by SCGC standards, and they sound amazing right off the bench.  But, given the chance, even if I had the money, I would take my OM-03MT over the Cruz just because I've bonded with it so much.  They are great guitars, but you must be patient if you get one to let it open up...or you may be lucky enough to find one used!!!

Justin

[Blue in VT]

If you do a search you will find MANY topics that cover this discussion.

My OM-05MT is my all time Favorite guitar....so far...

here are some links to tunes I recorded with it...maybe they will give you some idea of the tone:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7487376

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7487391

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7487396

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7487406

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7487413

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8060333

These guitars are not for everybody...but I'm not getting rid of mine....EVER!

Blue

[Frasier1]

Blue, Very nice playing!!!  Enjoyed them all - even the Silvercreek sound check!

[cke]

No help from me. I played a friend's Martin 000-15 which he loved (he also had a Goodall Koa Dread which I loved) and I was entirely underwhelmed. My first good guitar was 'hog with a cedar top (Classical), and I still love it. I prefer RW, but good 'hog is a blessing too.

I was surprised that there is such a devotion to mahogany on the Forum. Some here love it so much that they build the guitars upside down! (or is that bottom side up?)