Forum IV

[GA-ME]

  Now someone mentioned in a few posts back about prewar scalloped bracing.  Can that be done?

I think that Larrivee changing from their symmetrical bracing, to a prewar Martin style bracing, is highly unlikely. It would be a serious longshot, at best. If they were going to do that, it seems to me, they would have done it with the Traditional series guitars which were visually modeled after the Martins of yesteryear.................

[Danny]

Danny, Am I reading this correctly that you're okay with a deep body OO even up to 5-51/2" deep? Or are you saying that could be an option but we still can order 4" depth?

Isn't the more than 4" depth the "shoulder killer" measurement?  You insisted on 4" before, or am I getting this all wrong?

Please enlighten me - because now I've gotten to really like 4" depth max. 


ricky

When the lower bout size is reduced to 14'' or less a deeper body is not a problem. The waist is much tighter also, which will drop the body and the end result would be "more" comfortable to play than the F-III which is over 15 '' on the lower bout and the waist is wider than even a standard OM.
                 Just look at your 00 and think an inch deeper in body depth. It would'nt extend my shoulder in the end more than the F-III does now.
                 
                 Also I have a Martin OM-21, which most know is the same size as their 000 gits, it is easier to play than the F-III for me because of the tighter waist, the other specs. are almost identical. In fact my F-III now has a very nice Martin 000 case that it fits in nice and snugly. (and extremely protected)

                 The only issue I get in comfort with the OM-21 vs. the F-III is the 12 fret neck on the F-III is much easier on my fretting arm/hand position.
                  I never had any comfort issues playing my 00-09FM and it was at least 4 1/2 inches on the body depth. I think 5 !/2 would be no problem.
       

[Danny]

The Santa Cruz Guitar Company's H-13 is the modern Nick Lucas of note, its main feature is the 13th fret joint, and the deeper body.
That guitar sings "response".

The H&D 00 SP is based on the very responsive Martin 00-21 of yesteryear, and is very lightly constructed for the maximum use of Medium strings.
If I can get that response out of a Forum IV, I will almost certainly be in. Timing is of essence though.

I was tempted for a F-III, but the LS-body was not the guitar I really wanted. I want a 00. I see forum guitars as special versions and the revival of non production models. The 00's and Jumbos I particularly fancy, and would thus have interest in for potential Forum-models.
I don't see it as a replacement for FIII owners, and by no means suggest it.

Howdy Zohn, glad to hear from you.    I think we may be on to something here. Most folks who don't know Gibson gits won't know about the Nick Lucas model, but it is one that I also would enjoy having. I think we can put together a very nice Larrivee with a similar "response". I know the light build of the H&D and the Gibson won't be there. But our F-III's came out with that "light" build feel to me and with a high level of responsiveness. Part of that may be due to the IS tops.
                  I would like my F-IV to be made with that IS, I think JCL found some very special top wood there.

[shuffle]

As the proud new owner of a 00-50MT I'd agree that you guys are definitely on to a winner with the specs for F4.
In the words of a friend of mine when I told him about the new acquisition "If that isn't just about the perfect guitar I don't what is"

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[limnephilidae]

Hey guys, I've been poking around for a 00 with slot-head for a while here. I'm in unless you push the price into the stratosphere (ie used 'cruz prices).

I like the 00 specs quoted by Danny and Zohn at the beginning of this already too long thread.  

If I could have my way, the back and sides would be Madagascar Rosewood and the top would either be regular sitka or more of that luscious Italian Spruce. I'm open to just about any wood combination here with the exception of the sapele or hog tops, love the look but can't get into the sound.

I'm assuming this would be a California build starting at double the price point of the FIII guitars?

[ryler]

Wow!  You have really got me interested.  I've already been planning my next 00 purchase to be kept upstairs, but had in mind something under $500.00--a beater of sorts.  What's an extra $1500?  Oh, sadly, an exta 1500 is the difference between a happy marriage and a "frought" one.  I don't think I can play in this sandbox. 

What's the upcharge, btw, for a slot-head?

Oh, and Shuffle's pics need to be nominated for GoTM if they haven't been already.  Great photos.

[Zohn]

I think that Larrivee changing from their symmetrical bracing, to a prewar Martin style bracing, is highly unlikely. It would be a serious longshot, at best. If they were going to do that, it seems to me, they would have done it with the Traditional series guitars which were visually modeled after the Martins of yesteryear.................

I remember JCL saying that the Traditional models are made with traditional aesthetics like the herringbone trim, Pyramid bridge, angled bone nut, slot head, volute dart, and fretboard inlays. He made it clear though that he specifically retained the parabolic bracing to retain the unique Larrivee sound. My point is I don't think there's any way that they would scallop and thus alter the very attribute they're famous for nl. the even balance. Just my opinion though. They might be game to brace the tops lightly for a better response with finger style in mind.

[Zohn]

                  Howdy Zohn, glad to hear from you.    I think we may be on to something here. Most folks who don't know Gibson gits won't know about the Nick Lucas model, but it is one that I also would enjoy having. I think we can put together a very nice Larrivee with a similar "response". I know the light build of the H&D and the Gibson won't be there. But our F-III's came out with that "light" build feel to me and with a high level of responsiveness. Part of that may be due to the IS tops.
                  I would like my F-IV to be made with that IS, I think JCL found some very special top wood there.

Hey Dan - likewise buddy
Yes indeed, he seems to have found some seriously good stash there!!

[es-335]

deep and small body would be very nice.... too bad I am not able to chime in :(


but I told myself my next guitar will be 000-28ec!! :D.. I don't even know when that'd be...

anyhow you guys sound like have some good ideas!

[GA-ME]

I remember JCL saying that the Traditional models are made with traditional aesthetics like the herringbone trim, Pyramid bridge, angled bone nut, slot head, volute dart, and fretboard inlays. He made it clear though that he specifically retained the parabolic bracing to retain the unique Larrivee sound. My point is I don't think there's any way that they would scallop and thus alter the very attribute they're famous for nl. the even balance. Just my opinion though. They might be game to brace the tops lightly for a better response with finger style in mind.

Zohn, that is my point as well. If Larrivee didn't significantly alter  the symmetrical bracing, when specifically trying break into the Bluegrass market, with a production series line of guitars, it seems like a longshot that they would for a run that's likely to be 50 or less. As far as thinning the regular symmetrical bracing pattern profile, that is a better possibility, but I imagine that would be a difficult option to get as well. Potential warranty issues, concerns, and such, would have to factored into the equation for the company. That being said, it never hurts to try ta get what ya want!

I will say the standard 00 Trad. Series was the favorite Larrivee I ever played. It took all my self-control a couple of years ago to not buy a 00-50 from the Music Emporium in Lexinton, Mass. It was one of the nicest guitars, from any maker, I ever played. It was one of those production guitars that everything lined up on and it was a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, nice instrument!

[teh]

Zohn's specs from yesterday' post pretty much nailed it for me.

1. 12 Fret.
2. Slotted Head
3. 00, with a most responsive top in either Adi, Engelman, or Italian Spruce - a truly finger style monster.
4. Back & Sides Hog or Sapele (yes, Sapele!!), of a somewhat figured appearance.
5. Gloss top
6. 1 3/4" Nut
7. 2 5/16" string spacing at the saddle.
8. Short scale was also mentioned in the true spirit of 00's (29,9"). (Typo?: I think he meant 24.9)
9. Rosewood or Cocobolo body binding, headstock veneer, heel-cap and end block-wedge.
10. Bone nut and saddle.
11. Upgraded tuners (at least Gotoh or Grover Sta-tites in 18:1 ratio)
12. Unique IV marked on the head stock, or @ the body joint, and on the label, and on a brass plate on the Case.
13. Very simple rosette in a figured wood
14. Ebony finger board and bridge (bridge in a straight traditional, or a Pyramid style)

My only addition to his list would be:

Give an option of maple back and sides. I have played 6 Larrivees with maple back and sides (including my parlor) and every one of them has had truly phenomenal sound and clarity. 

[lw216316]

Short scale was also mentioned in the true spirit of 00's 

The true spirit of vintage OO's would be a wider neck,  back then 1 7/8, - my favorite size -
but I could live with a 1 13/16.

I bought an L-03R as my first Larrivee and sold it at a loss because I could not adjust to the 'smaller' 1 3/4 -
after having a 1 7/8 for so many years....and bought the 1 7/8 SD-50 -

The OOO-50 and 60 have 1 13/16 -
since this IV is obviously, designed primarily as a finger style guitar , I suggest the 1 13/16 like its bigger brother the OOO-50, and bigger sister the OOO-60.

At least take a vote on it. Others have expressed interest in 1 13/16 -
could it be an option ? or even an option for 1 7/8 ?

My opinion may not matter much - since the final specs may put it out of my price range.

- Larry

[Zohn]

Zohn's specs from yesterday' post pretty much nailed it for me.


8. Short scale was also mentioned in the true spirit of 00's (29,9"). (Typo?: I think he meant 24.9)

  yeah of course, it must be 24,9!!

My only addition to his list would be:
Give an option of maple back and sides. I have played 6 Larrivees with maple back and sides (including my parlor) and every one of them has had truly phenomenal sound and clarity. 

Naturally every interested party should at least be inquired for. I have yet to see a Maple Larrivee myself. Would love to play one, might just change my specs hey?

[es-335]

I wonder if Larrivee will do the 24.9 scale? it seems too much like martin like
Larrivee parlor's short sclae is 24" correct??

even 24.75" would be nice too..

[BluesMan1]

   What about us flat pickers? I love the sound of all of the specs, but the OO is a finger style guitar. Are some just being a little selfish?   I thought the idea of a Forum guitar was to appeal to all of the masses, not just those that desire a "finger picker's dream"? All will agree that the OOO-50, or -60, is a picker's dream. But it would also be a great size for us flattees. "Why can't we all just get along?"
   Are we thinking down the road aways also, as I had mentioned, since alot of us still have or are getting over F-III fever? H***, I just got mine back from Jim about almost 2 weeks ago, so I'm still trying to "play the snot out of mine"! And, when we start looking @ "Traditional Series" specs, the price just goes up & up. I thought the whole idea was to work out a limited run, one of a kind, affordable guitar, not just available to those that are prospering in this economy?
   I know this is just tossing ideas around, but it seems that when Danny & Ricky get involved, it turns into reality! Danny, IS? I thought he only had a pile "yea-high" & after ours it was "less-high"? Why don't we just ask for a special "Traditional" guitar, costing a fairly large amount, & have @ it? Heck, that should work! I only mention money because all don't have it to afford an expensive build. The F-III's were priced right & couldn't be passed up. Can we think about a OOO body, to satisfy all? And somehow work out a great deal that will appeal to all?
     Jeff   

[Zohn]

I wonder if Larrivee will do the 24.9 scale? it seems too much like martin like
Larrivee parlor's short sclae is 24" correct??

even 24.75" would be nice too..

Jeffrey, indeed they do. The LSV-11 Finger style model has a 24,75" scale length.

[Zohn]

   What about us flat pickers? I love the sound of all of the specs, but the OO is a finger style guitar. Are some just being a little selfish?   I thought the idea of a Forum guitar was to appeal to all of the masses, not just those that desire a "finger picker's dream"? All will agree that the OOO-50, or -60, is a picker's dream. But it would also be a great size for us flattees. "Why can't we all just get along?"
   Are we thinking down the road aways also, as I had mentioned, since alot of us still have or are getting over F-III fever? H***, I just got mine back from Jim about almost 2 weeks ago, so I'm still trying to "play the snot out of mine"! And, when we start looking @ "Traditional Series" specs, the price just goes up & up. I thought the whole idea was to work out a limited run, one of a kind, affordable guitar, not just available to those that are prospering in this economy?
   I know this is just tossing ideas around, but it seems that when Danny & Ricky get involved, it turns into reality! Danny, IS? I thought he only had a pile "yea-high" & after ours it was "less-high"? Why don't we just ask for a special "Traditional" guitar, costing a fairly large amount, & have @ it? Heck, that should work! I only mention money because all don't have it to afford an expensive build. The F-III's were priced right & couldn't be passed up. Can we think about a OOO body, to satisfy all? And somehow work out a great deal that will appeal to all?
     Jeff   

By the look of the posts on this thread, the majority seem keen for a 00. I didn't want a FIII, because I wanted a 00. Am I selfish then? Btw, I'm hardly prospering in this economy, and my country's currency is very weak against the US$. We haven't taken orders either, I see this thread as speculating at this time gathering interest, or did I miss something?

[Zohn]

By the look of the posts on this thread, the majority seem keen for a 00. I didn't want a FIII, because I wanted a 00. Am I selfish then? Btw, I'm hardly prospering in this economy, and my country's currency is very weak against the US$. We haven't taken orders either, I see this thread as speculating at this time gathering interest, or did I miss something?

As a matter of fact, count me out - I'll just have mine custom made...

[es-335]

   What about us flat pickers? I love the sound of all of the specs, but the OO is a finger style guitar. Are some just being a little selfish?   I thought the idea of a Forum guitar was to appeal to all of the masses, not just those that desire a "finger picker's dream"? All will agree that the OOO-50, or -60, is a picker's dream. But it would also be a great size for us flattees. "Why can't we all just get along?"

well, those who only flat pick would have to sit out on F4 :) I am sure there will be a F5 run...

My all hog F3 turns out to be a fantastic flat picking guitar... as well as finger picking..!  I think it was win, win for both parties...

[teh]

For the flatpickers in the group, a 000 would be the ticket. My Martin OM (same body as an 000) does well with a flat pick or finger style (more balanced and less bass than a dread). Since I have a D-35, I get dissed by the D-18 and D-28 purists over on the Martin Forum.

For what it's worth, I lobbied for a 12 string jumbo w/ maple back and sides on another thread and it looks like interest for a 12 string forum guitar died on the vine. Take heart and read this article about Norman Blake and his preference for smaller bodied 12 fret guitars for flatpicking including Gibsons and Martins. His signature model Martin is a 000-18 w/ 24.9 scale and 1 & 13/16 neck width. 

http://www.flatpick.com/Pages/Featured_Artist/norman.html