Why are some vintage electric guitars so valuable?

[jeremy3220]

I know part of the price you pay for a vintage Martin or Gibson acoustic is the mystique but many of them are some of the best sounding guitars ever made. Building a new guitar that sounds exactly like a pre war Martin or Gibson is no easy feat. The sound of an electric guitar is mostly in the pickups and amp. The body is just a hunk of wood. So what makes the old ones so desirable? Is it just the rarity and the thought of owning an original?

In 'Clapton's Guitar' the author tells the story of how Les Paul first made a solid body electric out of a 4x4 rail road tie and later, after getting 'looks' from the audience and musician's, attached a pair of "entirely cosmetic" wings so it would look more like a traditional guitar.

Now Gibson and Fender are selling reissues of their vintage models for 7K+. Are people really getting something they can't get for 1-2K? If so, what?

[tadol]

I second that question - especially the people who worry about whether the mounting screws are phillips or flat, and knobs are flat top or countersunk, since they only used the countersunk during the second year and only on alternate bodies, etc, etc - It seems pretty crazy to me -

Of course, if you want to talk about a Stanley Millers Patent #44 gunmetal type 6 with original cutter box and un-slotted fence knobs - 

Tad

[sneaky]

from the point of view of older MIJs, 5 years ago I was getting them for very little because nobody wanted them...suddenly something happened, now it seems everybody wants them. Not like the Japanese have forgotten how to build great guitars, they still do and in fact have taken those decades of building experience and improved upon them, and I`m convinced some people buy simply for bragging rights....it`s worse than keeping up with the Jonese on some sites I visit, it`s like a contest. Yeah  I got some old ones too but paid nowhere near what they`re selling for nowadays, and some seem to forget...the ones everybody is going gaga over now were new at one point too. True, when it comes to old guitars, they ain`t building them anymore so there is that attraction but honestly the best MIJs I see now are every bit on par with the MIAs I get to see here not to mention the new MIJs...absolutely fabulous when they want to be. Yeah theres the old wood, and I see it when I buy old Yamaha Dynamics...stunning wood and still one of the best kept secrets in acoustics...everyone is after the red labels now...fine by me, keep it up, I pass by red labels every time I go into shops, they don`t come close to the Dynamics.
I`d post more but it`s time to make the donuts...later.

[flatlander]

I think the wood and style of electric guitars also contribute to the sound. Old pickups could make a difference. I don't think I'd be paying 7000.00 for a re-issue, well I know I wouldn't But even if a could afford I wouldn't.

[unclrob]

Its the feel of the older guitars,quility of the material,aged pickups sound better,in most case's they were hand crafted.I would never pay the outrages some's that there asking for reissue's because in most case's they don't come close to being rite.I've owned many originals and when I bought them they weren't vintage they were just used.I'll never understand why people will pay big bucks to own a pre beat up or reliced guitar.I mean come on a parts strat or tele built from after market parts for 1500 or more.I assemble tele and strats for a friends store with updates for a little above half the asking price of some of these some of these relics and reissue's using the same parts.Go figure.

By the way the MIJ's are some of the best feeling Fenders made including the Squire's that were made in Japan.

[DaveyO]

Because some of the knucklehead guitar snobs think they are better because of age, wood,ect....
But I think it is as someone else just posted, just to be up one on the Jones,
Even If I could afford it, I wouldnt want an old instrument just to say I have it,
Case in point, I have a realative that has an old Hollybody Gretch or something like that, he just had it restored
and was "appraised" at 10k,yeah right, It still plays like crap and the sound is just ordinary.

firewood to me,
Its just stuff people.
Dave

[Stratokatsu]

By the way the MIJ's are some of the best feeling Fenders made including the Squire's that were made in Japan.

Agreed and I wish I had back one I bought for only $140 and sold 6 months later. Since then, people have actually begun to look at the Squier line in a way that has caused Fender to upgrade it. I recently bought a $250 Squier Strat, some Deluxe designation they stuck on it. The quality of the assembly and woodwork is on par with my 1990 American Std Strat, though the pickups sound differently from one guitar to the other. The best thing is the neck, which has no buzzes and some of the best fret finishing and tipping I've seen in an Asian guitar.

It's stuff like that that makes it so easy to stay away from the cost of high end guitars, not to mention vintage equipment. Anything can be duplicated today, from erratically wound pickups to woodwork that feels worn in.

Now, that said, I can't see paying double for a guitar just because someone in the factory whipped it with a chain to distress the body and toop a Dremel Tool to the neck to make it look like it's worn from bending strings. That's just stupid. I can drop my guitar to distress it with the best of them!

[BenF]

Now, that said, I can't see paying double for a guitar just because someone in the factory whipped it with a chain to distress the body and toop a Dremel Tool to the neck to make it look like it's worn from bending strings. That's just stupid. I can drop my guitar to distress it with the best of them!

I know, it'll be aged acoustics next.  Buy one new with a lifting bridge and centre seam crack, two broken tuners, shot frets, odd bridge pins and dings all over it for twice the price as a standard one.  Pay extra for a pickup with an aged dodgy lead plug.  It sounds so stupid, but that is just what these electrics look like to me.

[KenHolden]

value and price sometimes get confussed with eachother.   just because someone will pay huge dollars to buy a guitar, doesn't mean it is worth that much to another person. the blue book values are based on what collectors are willing to pay for a certian instrument.   

the Gibson customshop reissue 58 les paul sells for like $6K, whereas the all original 58 LP can go for up to $250K.   in some cases, you can't tell the differences between these 2 guitars.  there was a guy that lives fairly close to me that had the all original 58 LP, and kept turning down offers to sell it until they hit the 250K mark.  he sold it, paid off his house and all debt, got a good retirement fund, and bought himself the reissue LP, and is just as happy with it. he also now doesn't have to worry about ruining such an "expensive" guitar.

i don't think that i would ever buy a pre-beat in guitar, the same way that i don't buy my jean pre broken in.  the factory holes in the jeans are never in the right spots         some of the recreations are done well, others leave things out.   old fenders were all so different from eachother, those contour cuts on the strats were done without a guide, just a person and a bandsaw; the necks were all shaped by hand.     with all of those variables, you can still get a vintage guitar that still sounds like garbage, just like a new one could sound bad too.    its all in the ear of who's listening.     I've never believed that old guitars sound better just because their old.


with all of this being said, i would still enjoy buying some older models of guitars.  just the ones that they don't make anymore.  a used gibson LG-1 would be less expensive than ordering a brand new custom shop LG-1 from gibson.   

[Tycho]

MY favourite electric-guitar obsession is the '59 Les Paul Standard, which I think is probably the most valuable electric going.  I have spent many enjoyable hours on the Les Paul boards educating myself on this obsession.  (And no, I don't have one -- but I do have a Guitar Clinic replica, which will set you back about $5K and isn't even a real Gibson.)  Believe it or not, you'll find some people who will argue that the secret of the 'burst is not the wood, or the pickups, or the legendary "long tenon", but the glue -- namely the hide glue that Gibson used in 1959 and stopped using shortly thereafter.

[bearsville0]

Interesting thread.

Maybe somebody can explain these:

Exact replicas of one of Jeff Beck's Fenders complete with all dings, scratches, worn paint etc.  A facsimile of the original. I'm sure you've seen them. Base price $10,500

[jeremy3220]

Interesting thread.

Maybe somebody can explain these:

Exact replicas of one of Jeff Beck's Fenders complete with all dings, scratches, worn paint etc.  A facsimile of the original. I'm sure you've seen them. Base price $10,500

I would feel like such a goober playing one of those in public.

[FNG]

I would feel like such a goober playing one of those in public.

Not if you could play like Jeff Beck!   

[bearsville0]

Maybe it's the next best thing to playing air guitar.

[jeremy3220]

Not if you could play like Jeff Beck!   

Then I could get an ugly wig with bangs and talk with an English accent... that would be real cool

[sneaky]

oh oh...we`re into the relic thing now. welp, I only buy used guitars now, have done for a long time and frankly some of the older ones I bought are pretty beat up, that way when I got em but looks are not the reason i buy a guitar, sure I`m attracted to a nice looking guitar in a shop but if it plays like crap I don`t buy it...there are several things on my list before looks so I`ve never bought a guitar because it was reliced, never turned one down solely for that reason either...if I like a guitar I buy it...I don`t bother with models out of my price range anyways.
And every time...EVERY time...theres a thread on relics on any site I visit, the jeans thing comes up...next it`ll be the cars...you watch...somebody`s gonna say they wouldn`t buy a reliced car so why buy a reliced guitar...it`s gonna happen. I have no problem with guitars people buy, don`t make no nevermind to me, I got bigger fish to fry that what somebody else is playing.

[BenF]

oh oh...we`re into the relic thing now. welp, I only buy used guitars now, have done for a long time and frankly some of the older ones I bought are pretty beat up, that way when I got em but looks are not the reason i buy a guitar, sure I`m attracted to a nice looking guitar in a shop but if it plays like crap I don`t buy it...there are several things on my list before looks so I`ve never bought a guitar because it was reliced, never turned one down solely for that reason either...if I like a guitar I buy it...I don`t bother with models out of my price range anyways.
And every time...EVERY time...theres a thread on relics on any site I visit, the jeans thing comes up...next it`ll be the cars...you watch...somebody`s gonna say they wouldn`t buy a reliced car so why buy a reliced guitar...it`s gonna happen. I have no problem with guitars people buy, don`t make no nevermind to me, I got bigger fish to fry that what somebody else is playing.

OK, you've got a good point there.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if Fender/Gibson etc. can see a market for such things, of course they will build them.  I still think it is stupid though .  only my opinion.

[sneaky]

yeah threads on relics always end the same way...some folks like em, some don`t.

[Tycho]

Interesting thread.

Maybe somebody can explain these:

Exact replicas of one of Jeff Beck's Fenders complete with all dings, scratches, worn paint etc.  A facsimile of the original. I'm sure you've seen them. Base price $10,500

The funny thing about that guitar is that while I know Jeff played an Esquire early in his career, I really associate him mostly with a Les Paul (late '60s) or a Strat ('70s to now, which is really the definitive Jeff Beck sound).

[Dale_I]

Certain woods can help sustain. A lot of it is assembly though. If you go to a guitar store with a decent selection, strum an electric and grab the head with your other hand. If you don't feel a good vibration, move to the next one. You would be surprised the difference you will find. After a bit, you won't even pick up one that doesn't "move".

As well, the feel of the guitar changes too. I used to play bass and had an all maple fret board. I was asked to play bass again last month for a few weeks because of a hand injury and played a rosewood fret board. I definitely liked my old maple better.

My newest purchase, a 1980 LP Custom, has a much thicker neck than newer models. Along with not having been chambered, it plays and sounds different than any of the post 83 models.

As with anything, the value is in the eye of the beholder. Go look at anything collectable and you will see something you wouldn't pay for that someone else thinks is a deal.