Guitar with dings...Online purchases

[Brian R]

I read a forum entry from SteveK who purchased a guitar online and received it with some damage/dings. I was going to reply but for some reason looked like that thread was shut down. For myself I am quite particular when it comes to purchasing an instrument of significant value, being that I am not exactly wealthy to me anything over 500 bucks is significant enough that I would have to purchase it in person in an actual shop. I recently bought myself myself a new L05 just before Christmas from Long & McQuades who I have dealt with for years. To be honest I think I would never consider buying anything online, I need to see and touch and feel and play and inspect thoroughly the instrument I will purchase. I think I could never bother to buy anything over the internet, but then again thats just me. I think if you purchase direct from an actual store that has a decent reputation definitely makes a difference. If I was not close enough to a shop I would travel to the nearest city rather then order from the internet, just something about online purchases. But as I say thats just me though. Sorry to hear about that Steve, but things like that is why I will never order anything online especially something like a Larrivee, I would have to purchase direct from an actual shop with people assisting me in my purchase and also that way I can be sure of what I am getting.

[ronmac]

Hi Brian,

Congratulations on your new guitar! The L05 is a great instrument.

I have bought and sold several instruments on-line. Most were used, and most from/to private buyers. I have been very happy with all of my transactions. Perhaps I am lucky, but I think a lot has to do with the research that you do up front. I only deal with people that I "know" in the virtual world, or come highly recommended from other people that I trust.

If I lived near a major city I may think differently.

[Ratishna]

I've done well buying online, in addition to selling.  A lot of it comes down to how well the seller represents the product.  On my part, there is no better satisfaction than a buyer telling me "it looks better than you described it."  Would that all transactions had that result.

E. Shoaf

[jmhyer]

Just to add to what Ron said...

Another (perhaps the primary) factor in a successful online/long distance sale is communication.  As a buyer, you have to know what you're getting and what will happen if your are not satisfied.  E-mail is great for this, because the words are written.  There is little room for misunderstanding when it's written down.  But, personal conversation by telephone is also important.  I really can't get a true feel for someone's integrity unless I've read what they written and heard what they've said.  I'm not particularly shy about internet transactions, but you've got to go slowly and keep the lines of communication open with the other party.

[Brian R]

Thanks all, for writing back. Yes I guess it would come down to doing thorough research and making sure of credibility and so forth. Thanks also Ron I am quite happy with my L05 being my first Larrivee I am very pleased with it, I almost bought the L05E, but I also did my research and decided on the L05. You have all made valid points and I am certain that if I did buy online I would be just as thorough. I can understand for the purchase of used instruments, sometimes I guess you can get decent deals and I am sure as long as the communication is thorough all can go well, points well taken thanks for all your input. I guess if I was not living in a major city I would go that route also, but I would definitely be thorough. I guess I am just fortunate that I do live in a city and have a really good relationship with the people at Long & McQuades, I been dealing with them for about 15 years and have never had a problem, their customer service is nothing short of awesome. For used stuff, I guess some great deals can be had though as I have seen from some of the threads here. I guess just caution and common sense will do the trick. Anyway thanks again. Cheers!!

[Peter Cree]

I just read that thread .  I visit the site once in a blue moon anymore.  I find the info to be getting less informed.

Steve K should know better.  Those "dings" where so minor and easily repaired.  To go online and trash a dealer for THAT was absurd at best.

How would Steve like it if we went online to say he's outta line.  Then they discuss "libel" which is silly, absurd.  He attempts to quote his 1st amendment rights.................

Take a pill, dude.

[Steve]

How would Steve like it if we went online to say he's outta line.  Then they discuss "libel" which is silly, absurd.  He attempts to quote his 1st amendment rights.................

Take a pill, dude.

Thanks Peter, I like you too!  I'm pretty sure that I was told more then a few times I was out of line.  Although I don't feel that way everytime I pick up my new guitar.

Steve :GRN>

[Peter Cree]

Actually Steve , I do like you.

[HangFire]

I just read that thread .  I visit the site once in a blue moon anymore.  I find the info to be getting less informed.

Steve K should know better.  Those "dings" where so minor and easily repaired.  To go online and trash a dealer for THAT was absurd at best.

How would Steve like it if we went online to say he's outta line.  Then they discuss "libel" which is silly, absurd.  He attempts to quote his 1st amendment rights.................

Take a pill, dude.

I could not agree more Peter.

[jwsamuel]

Steve K should know better.  Those "dings" where so minor and easily repaired.  To go online and trash a dealer for THAT was absurd at best.

I'll take the other side. If you purchase a product of any type and that product is sold as new, but arrives with visible damage, why should the purchaser have to deal with having repairs made? If the guitar is represented as being new, it should arrive in new condition without any damage that has not been disclosed to the buyer beforehand.

After all, one of the reasons for buying a new guitar is to get one that is free of damage and does not need repair. If you are going to have to have a guitar repaired immediately after you got it, why not buy used and save money?

Now, that does not mean that it is acceptable to go online and post negative messages when one has not exhausted all means of communicating with the dealer. But sometimes, that is the only alternative.

Jim

[Walkerman]

I'll take the other side. If you purchase a product of any type and that product is sold as new, but arrives with visible damage, why should the purchaser have to deal with having repairs made? If the guitar is represented as being new, it should arrive in new condition without any damage that has not been disclosed to the buyer beforehand.

After all, one of the reasons for buying a new guitar is to get one that is free of damage and does not need repair. If you are going to have to have a guitar repaired immediately after you got it, why not buy used and save money?

Now, that does not mean that it is acceptable to go online and post negative messages when one has not exhausted all means of communicating with the dealer. But sometimes, that is the only alternative.

Jim

I believe that SteveK stated that he refuses to call Dave, even after Dave requested that he do so to settle the issue.  To my way of thinking, that negates his right to publically complain.  And no, Steve, I don't mean it negates your second amendment rights, so don't even go there.

[rpg51]

I think there is room for different people to have different attitudes about imperfections.  Its the Oscar and Felix thing.  Both good people - one a perfectionist, one not.  If you tend to be a perfectionist then you do need to take particular care when you buy sight unseen.  Size up the seller, get very good pictures - shy away if you are unsure. 

I have had very good experiences buying on line.  The first was my OM50.  This was a long haul getting the right guitar because there was confusion about the nut width which changed at one point. I wanted and I specified the wider nut but a lot of the guitars in stock at the time at the narrow nut and the dealers were all a bit confused I think.  Anyway, after a few shipments back and forth (one did have imperfections that bothered me) I ended up with a spanking brand new OM 50 with a beautiful top and absolutely perfect, no imperfections whatsoever.  Jason at Notable Guitars was the dealer - he was terrific - paid for all the shiping charges and took responsibility for everything.  I paid not one dime extra and I ended up with a perfect OM50 for a very very good price.  I was VERY happy with the service at Notable.  I did talk to other dealers before I bought and I felt that Jason was the most open and straight forward - I decided to trust him and I made a good decision in that regard.

The second was a used guitar I bought from a forum member - I believe at APM.  This was a used guitar.  Again, the seller was a great guy and he completely disclosed every little ding etc. and when the guitar arrived it was exactly what I expected and I love it to this day. 

So, that is my experience.  I think you have to know yourself - if you are a Felix there is nothing wrong with that but you have to realize that about yourself and shop accordingly.  You can't assume that everyone in the world is just like you are.  Neither type of person is good or bad - just different.

[jwsamuel]

I believe that SteveK stated that he refuses to call Dave, even after Dave requested that he do so to settle the issue.  To my way of thinking, that negates his right to publically complain.  And no, Steve, I don't mean it negates your second amendment rights, so don't even go there.

I agree. I think SteveK had every right to be disappointed with the guitar he received and if Dave knowingly sent that guitar out, then he was wrong to do so. However, I also believe Dave's explanation that he did not receive an email and posting a public complaint before exhausting all means of communications was also not the right thing to do.

BTW, the second amendment is the right to bear arms. Not sure if that's what you meant or not. :)

Jim 

[UK Mike]

I try to avoid buying on-line. The only time I bought on line was to get a Larrivee Parlour which at the time I could not find locally. And guess what - it also had small dings. The difference was the shop owner had told me about the dings, gave me a good price and told me to simply return it if I didn't like it when it turned up. In actual fact the dings were much less noticable than he had made me think (good management of expections) and I was very happy.

But I do prefer to go and play a guitar before buying if I can.

I think caveat emptor is the motto of on-line shopping.

Cheers

Mike

[jwsamuel]

But I do prefer to go and play a guitar before buying if I can.

So do I  but it is not always possible. I just ordered a D-03R. I could have gotten it locally but it would have cost me $271 more to do so.

Jim

[Walkerman]

I agree. I think SteveK had every right to be disappointed with the guitar he received and if Dave knowingly sent that guitar out, then he was wrong to do so. However, I also believe Dave's explanation that he did not receive an email and posting a public complaint before exhausting all means of communications was also not the right thing to do.

BTW, the second amendment is the right to bear arms. Not sure if that's what you meant or not. :)

Jim 

Oppps....1st amendment.....

[Peter Cree]

Dave and Steve should have just worked it out instead of going online to three forums............

But I've done as much myself, so I'm not throwing stones here just voicing an opinion from a former "sinner".   Those nicks etc where such as to be easily overlooked or not even seen.  To imply Dave has no ethics is jumping to conclusions.

Yes, Steve has the right.  Dave has the right.  Everybody has the right to do whatever.  I'm not pointing fingers though it seems that way.  the entire thing should have been dealt with differently.  big deal.

And I agree if you buy something new you should get NEW.  BUT............stuff happens in shipping and having others ship and so forth.  Seems the whole affair was an example of everyone being wrong.

Steve has always been a good guy.  Dave was very nice to me when I was pissed at Matthew............I acted badly.  Matt acted badly.  human beings act badly.

Do you guys know how many repairs I've done for free on Larrivees?   Little things that the company should have taken care of.  WHY?

Because we're a small group of humans who should look out for each other.  Period.  It's a big stupid world full of reasons to not get along.  Most of that is crap.   We should behave better.  I've been a jerk plenty of time in my life and I'm a bit sick of it.

I say, shut up, shake hands. get over it, play good music, forgive each other and repair a couple of dings.  Guitar owners act like the world has ended at the least little thing.  Be human dammit..........and I'd be happy to fix the friggin thing just to see people get their priorities straight.

So there...........

Pretty human.  Point here is to make the small adjustments to Steves guitar and all shake hands and forget it.  I doubt anyone intentionally attempted to hurt anyone else.  As a restorer I see so much worse in guitar-shop wear.  to me it was nothing but two nice people getting carried away much as I ,myself, have done.