Opinions of best mikes for miking an amped Larrivee

[jambrose]

I know this has been asked before, but I want to ask again, maybe there are some new items on the market   
I recently acquired (Happy Birthday to me!) a Fender Cyber Twin SE, I've really been impressed by ut and how it sounds with my strat, and my Larry D-03. Love it.

Anyone have some thoughts on getting a good microphone combination, for recording?

And hey, I've been "off-center" a while, I've made a commitment to getting back in-balance which means music as much as possible, and less stress. I bet I haven't posted in six months.

[Dale_I]

I'm sure there are better mics out there, but I carry a couple Sure SM-57's. They are arguably the undisputed king of stage mics, built like a brick, and can take just about all the abuse you can hand them and still work great. My 2 cents...

[flatlander]

My first question would be, why do you want to go thru amp to record?. Effects? Or volume cause you're recording live with loud instruments? Or do you just like tone better when going thru amp? I always try to get guitar down with 2 mics raw onto 2 tracks, (on on neck around 10th fret pointing towards soundhole and one at soundhole) then play with tone and effects later. Generaly that requires almost nothing as it's already balenced and I don't use effects on acoustic guitar, but once in a while.....and with other instruments. If it's for the effects can you access amps effects to run mixers loop thru? I'm no mic geru but I just use 57's off amp and condenser mics for acoustic. But if you can get what you want later by using effects at mixdown that leaves options open. If on 2 chans you can leave one straight and put effects on the other and pan them left and right. You not only have the underlying straight sound but the slight difference in phase when you get them panned out just right can make sound blossom. Just some thoughts, not a gear geru.

[jambrose]

I like the sound through the tube stages and live recorded; to my humble ears it provides a richer sound to start with.
I like where you're going it getting some base line signals recorded to further modify. I have the amp line xlr outs to inputs of an Edirol FA-101 to give me two channels recorded with just the original effects at a line level, for playing with later.

Getting the live sound recorded in the richest manner is my target, if that makes sense. It's only my humble opinion, but I'm trying to get the analog frequency nuances of the guitar, as the guitar signal is encouraged and amplified through tubes. (Man that just sounds corny. Someone shoot me)

No wait, I didn't mean it.

[jambrose]

A friend of mine was also saying the Sure SM-57s were great to use, can't go wrong with them. I have a couple EV 767As I use too, when I'm amping the D-03. I have a Rhodes NT-1A condenser I use when I'm unplugged.

[flatlander]

I understand the tube thing. I used a Twin until I sold it a couple years ago to get Mandolin and 20 years ago I used to lug around a Dual Showman with the huge cabinet and 2 15's. Man that thing made l-10 sound like a hammond organ even with crappy pickups of the day. But still if you can figure a way to get 2 tracks you can get some rich sound. Maybe amp in other room. But the mic and line out might do good for what you want. Be aware that it could be that the 2 signals may be 180 out of phase. When signal goes thru power output tubes it's going to flip phase. Some think that's something to stay away from but contrair I like it and do it on purpose.
You just have to have the chans panned pretty much 1 way to left and 1 way to right. Get them close and they cancel each other out. But panned out they can make sound blossom. Your amp may have a phase switch on line out as well, I don't know. Have fun!
P.S. The cyber Twin does have tube output stage right or is it hybrid? If solid state phase probably not effected.

[ronmac]

Recording the line outs will give you the sound of your tube preamp section, but it doesn't get you the sound of the speaker and the "air" in your room (the effect of the room is often the most important aspect of live recording an amp).

I would suggest using your NT1A positioned somewhere in your room (experiment to taste) to get the room ambiance. Mix that with your direct signal and you will likely be a lot closer to the amp sound you hear when you play live.

[rockstar_not]

If you already have a RODE NT1A, then I would record the Larry direct with that - skip the amp - if you want the natural sound of the Larry to be recorded.  In your posts, it doesn't quite seem like that's your goal - which is out of the norm for recording acoustic guitar.  That's o.k., but realize that likely 99% of acoustic guitar recordings that you've ever heard are almost assuredly a direct mic'ing of the instrument and not of the instrument put through an amplifier/speaker cabinet - then recorded with a mic.

Honestly, an electric guitar amp/speaker combo has TERRIBLE frequency response for amplifying acoustic instruments.  Much of the high end sparkle is intentionally attenuated - with boost on midrange as the goal.  Some of this is in the amp circuitry, and a good part of it is in the speakers that are used in guitar cabinets.  Line out of the pre-amp will help somewhat; taking the speaker out of the signal path.

The NT1A is a great condenser mic and there's plenty of good acoustic guitar tracks recorded with that mic.  Many tricks exist for finding the 'sweet spot' for your particular recording environment.  Some good tips have already been given above in the thread, but here's a few others:

1.  Many folks like to record acoustic guitar in a room with a reflective floor when using a condenser mic.  If your room that you've used before has carpet - you can lay a sheet of plywood on the floor , stick your chair on that, and you've got a pretty good reflective floor going.

2.  If you've used the tried and true method of the condenser at about the 12th fret; 6"-1' away from the neck, capsule pointed toward the sound hole, and are not happy with the resulting sound - here's some other positions to try:

a.  Do you like how your Larry sounds to your ear when you sit and play or stand and play?  If so, hang the NT1A above your right shoulder  (assuming you play right-handed) with the capsule pointed down towards your picking hand.

b.  If you are missing the 'room' noise, try moving the mic farther away from the guitar in both of these cases.

3.  I hate to ask this, but I ran into a relative out in CA that didn't know that the NT1-A what is known as a side address microphone.  You do know that the capsule doesn't point out of the end of the mic, correct?  It's an easy mistake to make if nobody has pointed it out to you before.  If you are pointing the 'top' of the mic at your guitar, then the recordings that you'll make will actually not sound so great.  In the manual for the mic, on page 9 there's a photo showing the mic in 'side-address' fashion while recording acoustic guitar.  http://www.rodemic.com/downloads/nt1-a/nt1-a_product_manual.pdf

Good luck.  Larrys sound so sweet un-amplified - I hope you find a mic combo that let's you record it this way.

-Scott

[jambrose]

Yep the NT1A is a great microphone. And hey, don't worry about asking questions, they're always good, 'cause you never know, I know the Rhodes is a side-address mike. I have a good set up with a short stand / vibration limited holder. The stand is really adjustable, so I can get right up to the neck, and pan through the sound board when I play, if I want to. For recording it's a great mike, just when I'm with a group of musicians on the stage, I feel limited.

When I'm home I use it. I've chosen to primarily use a room with a hardwood floor for sound, no carpets. I use an Edirol FA-101 and record onto a hard disk, through Cakewalk Sonar 7 PE. I've got to learn to sing better, that's a challenge. Anyone want to share their singing? 

[rockstar_not]

The 'feeling limited' thing - do the on-stage musicians control the house volumes, or do you have a mix engineer that handles the main mix?  Do you have a pickup installed in your Larry?  (Lots of love on the forum here for Baggs and K+K bridgeplate mounted pickups for live use - I've got a K+K).

If you do have the pickup - run that into a DI box, send it to your amp for your own monitoring purposes, and a copy to the board for the house mix.

The NT1A would be a tough mic to use if you are 'competing' for audibility on the platform - way to wide of a polar pattern.

-Scott

[pickngrin]

The Shure SM-57 has been great for me.

[jambrose]

I've got a Fishman Matrix Natural Type II, and spent a couple years either; plugging into a Yahama mini-mixer on stage for control, that patched into the Peavey main board PA for FOH, or direct into the Peavey via a snake to the stage. Soundbooth controls by sound persons in booth. Although I spent some time using a Blues Jr tube amp, miked, into the Peavey.

After I acquired the Rhodes about 1.5 yrs ago and using with my L-03 a bit, I started using it with the dread. I like the miked sound buy it may only be for recording purposes and not live.

It all gives good sound, I'm just looking for another mike that others may use getting good results. What I do also, is use both miked tracks with amp direct out tracks. It's all great fun! I do the recording / mixing for our church too, starting that and trying to help get it going, for services and music to be available on CDs. My wife tolerates me spending sometimes good bits of monies , for guitars and goodies.t 

Joe

[Dale_I]

I should mention... I only use the SM-57 for mic'ing my electric amp. I do not use it for stage mic'ing the guitar. For stage use, I plug directly to a DI box and send the raw signal to the board. If I want to use an acoustic amp as a monitor, I'll use a separate cord to double the signal back to the amp from the DI box, so I'm getting the same signal sent to the board. Almost all DI boxes are wired so that both inputs loop to each other. So, you can use the second input to run "out" to an amp. Currently, we are using in ear monitors with an AXIOM system, so I don't need a stage amp for an acoustic monitor.

Hope that clarifies.