Thank Goodness Larrivee builds in N. America

[Guvnor]

I live and work in the Detroit area.  More specific, I am a designer at the Chrysler Gruop.  This past year has been filled with stories of the decline of middle class America.  Jobs are being lost due to company downsizing and outsourcing to countries abroad.  American workers are expected to earn a living on wages workers earn in these less fortunate countries.  All this being said, knowing Larrivee chose to build a plant in California proves to me that Larrivee holds North American workers in high regard.  Perhaps they have been approached to build guitars in the Pacific rim.  Continuing to build in America and Canada just shows how much integrity Larrivee has.  That is why my guitar purchases will remain with an American or Canadian builder.

I'm sure many will argue the importance of Asian builders however, if Americans continue to rely on Asian products, "Made in America" or "Made in Canada" will be a forgotten memory. 

Thank you, Larrivee!!

[prof_stack]

Amen to that.  Thanks.

Good luck to you and Chrysler in '06!

[woody b]

Very well said.   Being a designer you know how it would be if someone in China took a Caravan apart and started making exact copies.(using cheap(sweatshop) labor and inferior materials)  That's what some companies have done with guitars.   Fair trade is NOT fair. 

[Woodbadger]

Very well said.   Being a designer you know how it would be if someone in China took a Caravan apart and started making exact copies.(using cheap(sweatshop) labor and inferior materials)  That's what some companies have done with guitars.   Fair trade is NOT fair. 

I agree with everything said in this thread so far...with one exception. Woody B, I think you may be confusing FAIR trade with FREE trade. I would direct you (and any others interested) to the following link which discusses the important differences Free Trade.

If I am incorrect in my assumption, then I apologize. There is no excuse for offshoring to take advantage of cheaper labor costs and more lax labor laws. Being in the IT industry, I have seen the effects of this very close to home.

[WVUBAMA]

Canada has a very agressive and successful national export policy; few realize that the US runs a strong deficit vs. Canada. Canada has done a great job getting Japanese auto manufacturing to locate in Ontario, but Canada did a lousy job trying to become the optical networking center of the world in the late 90s. While it should be pointed out that Larrivee is indeed a US manufacturer and a US company, it should also be pointed out that you get that Larrivee 03 series so inexpensively due to NAFTA provisions and Ottawa's support for exporters.

[HangFire]

Hear hear! :WNK>

[Calvin]

There can be many reasons for holding a plant in California.  Let's NOT speculate.

For the record.  I dont agree with the idea of protectionism, because it hinders free trade and the market in general.  And frankly, I am not sure why this thread is in this section.  It should be moved non-guitar discussions, because sounds like a political statement.  Let's stick to talking about guitars.

[sneaky]

California is on the Pacific rim...as is Vancouver.

[Guvnor]

Pacific Rim in auto speak is Asia.  I'm curious, after a Larrivee 03 model is shipped to Japan, after Japanese taxes and other expenses added to the product, I wonder if the cost is much higher?  For example, Chrysler ships a limited number of Neons to Japan - the most Japan allows.  This car sells cheaply in the states.  In Japan, this car is $30,000.  In other words, Japan makes it difficult for North America to sell product whereas America openly accepts everything Japan ships over.  And of course, the American consumer purchases all these products without realizing that Americans are losing jobs all over America.

[sneaky]

firstly...I`m Canadian, don`t know about American jobs.
I do know a New Zealander who was teaching at Musicians Institute and they sent him to the States occasionally and he told me American guitars are priced about double what they are in America. Larrivees... or Rarribees as they are sometimes called here... are about the same... and folks here will pay those prices, so guess what... high end Japanese builders sell their work for about the same prices as American guitars go for, and a couple of years ago when Fender Japan was permitted to import the Sting bass, in America it sold for about half the price it sells for in Japan. Americans just would not pay the prices FJs sell for over here. I understand some Europeans pay a lot for MIJs too.

[Fergy07]

Interesting thred.

Andy

[sneaky]

I agree...I`d love to see more MIA products here. I kinda got used to cross border shopping, coming from Montreal the US was an easy drive away. This country is an interesting place to live and observe...they are fascinated by American culture, first thing I noticed was how Americanized the kids look when I got here. The Japanese want to deal with foreigners and things foreign...but on their own terms. I have taught some folks for 10 years and yet, when they see me on the street, 90% don`t say hi, not even a nod of the head. After 12 years here I believe the Japanese are quite happy to live in their own world and don`t really care about what outsiders think of them... the word gaijin means both foreigner and outsider... and even if I lived the rest of my life here, I`d still be an outsider. I used to teach at a North Korean school in this city...now, the kids were born in Japan and some were third generation born here  and yet, they hold no Japanese passport and are not considered Japanese...nor are they considered North Koreans by that country.
Some foreigners born outside Japan, like a few Sumo guys and a couple of soccer players that I know of, hold Japanese passports and have become Japanese citizens...so it is possible. I often see and feel a certain air of superiority among the natives regarding their neighbors, though that most often is not the case with blue eyed devils. This place is an oxymoron and continues to keep me curious enough to stay here, even though there are times I feel like hopping on the next flight out. Plus, I love my job.

[WVUBAMA]

The Japanese are very warm and hospitable to the gaijin IF those gaijin are there short term, do not try to become too Japanese, and understand their place. Know when to leave, don't enjoy sushi too much, don't try to become overly competent in Japanese language and customs. Westerners who try to become Japanese usually wind up as sashimi. I'd be curious if Larrivees are available in Nippon. If Larrivee is not marketing in Japan, Larrivee should as in general Larrivee products could easily satisfy that Japanese insatiable demand for quality craftsmanship which few makers can achieve. Ottawa manipulates the looney in order to keep Canadian products as inexpensive as possible on the world export markets, however, the looney is on the rise so watch those -03 prices! ... Japanese currency model from the 1950's.

[sneaky]

yes...I remember when Joe Barden was coming over here for a business trip... over at the TDPRI, a gaijin wrote about the different ways visiting and resident blue eyed  devils are treated...   the guy who wrote that was right on the money and it made me laugh.
There was a story going around the web about how the OM-01s were made for a Japanese chain of shops and the order was cancelled at the last minute...never did find out of it was just folk lore or true, but it doesn`t matter because I got one of the OM-01s and love it...though I brought it to Canada 4 years ago on my last trip home for the holidays and miss it but... wait, don`t cry in your beer...I have 2 other Larrivees to play here in Japan, both from the Lite series.
When I first arrived I was one of those foreigners who didn`t want anything to interfere with my " Japan experience ", and that lasted about 2 or 3 years... now of course I seek out foreigners just to be able to converse with folks who actually understand what it means to be a foreigner in this country... and it really helps. It`s funny you should mention not being too Japanese ... not gonna happen by the way... but one thing the people in this city love is to hear us foreigners say how much we love things Japanese... you know food, customs etc etc. Sorry...just can`t get into MIJ baseball, or their version of football [ not soccer ].
OH yeah...Rarribees are sold in Japan, grossly overpriced and with only a 6 month warranty !...but I don`t buy new guitars anymore...used are far better bargains here.

[sneaky]

by the way...I saw a loony sell for 300 yen recently on Yahoo Japan. For those who don`t know...our American friends for example... thats about 3 times what it`s worth.

[Peter Cree]

I would think one reason to have a plant in the California area would access to the UV finishing and access to other guitar makers such as Taylor.  Also customs and tarrifs etc.

just a guess.

[Gemnoc]

In other words, Japan makes it difficult for North America to sell product whereas America openly accepts everything Japan ships over.  And of course, the American consumer purchases all these products without realizing that Americans are losing jobs all over America.

I've read somewhere that the Japan industry created their luxury brands (Acura, Lexus, Infiniti) to bypass the restrictions and get more cars here (and ones with larger profit margins too).

You are omitting something in your assesment Guvnor, the fact that the japanese have built assembly plants here (so most popular cars are assembled by north-american workers) and the fact that the american manufacturers have been behind in quality for quite some time, and slow to offer the products the customers really wanted (or needed) at some point (back in 82-83, energy crisis). They're now catching up quality-wise, but will it be too late?

Anyway, this will all be irrelevant when we start accepting cheap China-made cars here. Bottom line, I'm with Woodbadger. Fair trade instead of "free" trade.

[Gemnoc]

you get that Larrivee 03 series so inexpensively due to NAFTA provisions and Ottawa's support for exporters.

I'm curious about the canadian government support to exporters. Do you mean that Larrivée is subsidized to sell products in the States?

I work for a small custom metal products manufacturer (100 employees) and have not seen this government support. I can tell you that the strong loonie is damaging our business, as maybe 75% of our production goes south. And a few of our american customers have started buying in China, and even in Russia for large volume orders. In the past couple of years we have redirected our production toward small qty, short lead-time, high quality products.

[WVUBAMA]

I'm curious about the canadian government support to exporters. Do you mean that Larrivée is subsidized to sell products in the States?I work for a small custom metal products manufacturer (100 employees) and have not seen this government support. I can tell you that the strong loonie is damaging our business, as maybe 75% of our production goes south. And a few of our american customers have started buying in China, and even in Russia for large volume orders. In the past couple of years we have redirected our production toward small qty, short lead-time, high quality products.

Try this: http://exportsource.ca/gol/exportsource/site.nsf/en/es01895.html  Not sure if it is direct financial subsidies, but I would not be suprised based on my experience with Canadian manufacturers all of which export. Their tax bill and regulatory overhead to Ottawa is high, so as with most countries there is usually an export support package for industries which make jobs and bring in hard currency. Could be financing for product sales and manufacturing, credits, tax incentives, advocacy, attraction of investment to Canada. I am sure the Provinces have packages for labor intensive manufacturers, which guitar making is. You should check with your Provincial government trade office. Canada is a country which depends on its exports to survive, so like Japan, it is taken very seriously up north. Canada is a fascinating place.

[C-10-4-me]

I've read somewhere that the Japan industry created their luxury brands (Acura, Lexus, Infiniti) to bypass the restrictions and get more cars here (and ones with larger profit margins too).

You are omitting something in your assesment Guvnor, the fact that the japanese have built assembly plants here (so most popular cars are assembled by north-american workers) and the fact that the american manufacturers have been behind in quality for quite some time, and slow to offer the products the customers really wanted (or needed) at some point (back in 82-83, energy crisis). They're now catching up quality-wise, but will it be too late?

Anyway, this will all be irrelevant when we start accepting cheap China-made cars here. Bottom line, I'm with Woodbadger. Fair trade instead of "free" trade.

Oh boy, would I love to respond in detail to this topic. Especially since there seems to be a fair amount of finger pointing being made. Wonder how far the Mod's will allow this topic to go?