A question for all you Electric Guitar buffs...

[rrgguitarman]

what is the difference between Distortion and Overdrive? for that matter a Blues Driver? The only thing that I've ever played around with has been the "Gain" that comes with the amp and Reverb, is the "Gain" the same as the "Overdrive"?
You see so many pedals by different makers these days and it got me thinking about what they actually do.
I may be leaving myself wide open for a few snigh comments but, oh well.

[ducktrapper]

Overdrive is like the natural overdriven sound of hot tubes. It has a certain warmth to it that distortion lacks. Distortion is, well, distortion. I prefer overdrive. Gain is like volume for the effect.

[Tycho]

Yeah.  The hierarchy of "dirt" tones (in ascending order) is: overdrive; distortion; fuzz; hi-gain; nu-metal.

I find, though, that when you crank most of those overdrive pedals way up (e.g. the BOSS Blues Driver) there's not a whole lot of difference between drive and distortion.

The Gain knob on an amp is usually trying to replicate putting the amp into natural overdive and beyond.  There's a fine art -- that I don't think I've ever really mastered -- to getting a tube amp to where it's just on the the brink of overdrive and then controlling your tones as follows: rolling back the volume on your guitar for a clean sound, putting it up full for a crunchy sound, and then (if the guitar has a gain knob) kicking in the gain with a footswitch for a fully overdriven sound.

If you're using an old-fashioned amp that doesn't have gain (e.g. Fender Deluxe Reverb), a pedal can substitute for the third stage of that process.

For the past few years I've tried (with varying degrees of success) to be one of those players who gets drive just from overdriving the amp rather than from a pedal.  Problem is, you have to drive an amp pretty hard to do that, and even a low-power amp gets pretty loud when it gets to that stage.

[rrgguitarman]

Gain is like volume for the effect.

My gain knob makes the amp sound distorted? It almost sounds like what you hear on the Beatles Revolution?
This is really confusing

[ducktrapper]

Gain will increase the distortion effect. As for pedals, I prefer the Boss SD1 to the Bluesdriver, especially to get overdrive on a tube amp without blowing eardrums. It has a warmer more naturally overdriven sound. My choice would be a low wattage tube amp like a Marshall 1974x but I'm using a 40 watt Fender Blues Deluxe. 

[rrgguitarman]

This is one of the amps that I own. I changed the tubes with Eurotubes and and changed the speaker with a Celestion Vintage 30.
http://www.leejackson.com/GT50C.htm

I also have a Traynor YCV20WR with a Celestion Greenback. Not too loud but, sweet.

Thanks for all the input. I'll check out the Boss SDI
Anyone use any of the BBE products?

[Hoser Rob]

In practice, when you're looking at pedals, a distortion pedal is more distorted than an overdrive one.  Pedals that say distortion are geared more to a hard rock / metal sound.  Overdirve ones more for a bluesy sound.

As far as the electronics goes they're really the same phenomenon.  It's all distortion caused by overdriving some section of the amp.

If you try to drive a stage past its limit, which is determined by its max voltage level, it'll go into what's called clipping.  The top and bottom of the waveform are clipped off.  That effectively raises the level of the overtones relative to the fundamental.  It's basically harmonic distortion caused by compression.

That's also where the added sustain comes from.  Unless you're getting feedback at high volume there's nothing in the amp that can make the strings vibrate for a longer time.  But when the signal in the amp is compressed all the levels the strings are naturally producing are squashed to the same level relatively.

A tube amp (or preamp like a pedal) will sound different when it's overdriven than a solid state one.  If you look at a graph of a solid state amp clipping the top and bottom of the waveform will look like it's been cut straight across.  A tube amp clipping will look more rounded at the top and bottom.  The transistor one will sound harsher (which may be exactly what you'd want but not me).

The sound depends on which stage of the amp is being overdriven too.  That classic warmer bluesy tube sound is the output tubes being overdriven.  You'll need to turn the amp up all the way to get that.  Unless you're in a big room a 20 watt tube amp or less is best.  Otherwise you're going to drown out everyone else.

Preamp distortion is what those pedals (and the distortion controls on amps) do.  It usually gives you that cats in heat sound from major solid state clipping.  Though the old Ibanez Tube Screamers, which have been reissued, come closer to a decent tube overdrive than anything else I've heard.

[rrgguitarman]

Hoser Rob, thank you for that explanation. I've always preferred the sound of tubes over the solid state. I have a very old Jordan Stagemate 75 Watt amp that is super loud but, it doesn't have the sweetness that a tube amp has.
Sound like the "overdrive" is the way too go.

[Tycho]

The Traynor YCV20WR is actually a perfect little amp to experiment with that "edge of breakup" thing, because it's got (effectively) three channels.  Set the clean channel to where it's just breaking up and giving you a nice understated crunch.  Set the overdrive channel to where it's just as loud as the clean channel, but use the gain knob to make it much crunchier (season to taste). 

Switch back to the clean channel.  Roll back the volume on your guitar a bit; that's your clean rhythm tone.  Turn the volume back up full; that's your crunchy rhythm tone.  Switch to the drive channel; that's your crunchy lead tone.  Kick in the "third stage" on your drive channel; that's your insane crunch overdrive.  (I find the third stage a bit harsh on that amp, but that's just me; I tend to avoid mega-distortion.)

With those settings, you don't even really need a pedal.

Edit: I just noticed both of your electrics are Epi semi-hollows.  with the pickups in those guitars, it should be quite easy to push the Traynor to "edge of breakup" territory.  (It would be harder with a Strat or Tele.)

[imwjl]

what is the difference between Distortion and Overdrive? for that matter a Blues Driver? The only thing that I've ever played around with has been the "Gain" that comes with the amp and Reverb, is the "Gain" the same as the "Overdrive"?
You see so many pedals by different makers these days and it got me thinking about what they actually do.
I may be leaving myself wide open for a few snigh comments but, oh well.

It's none of the above, but check out the Sonic Stomp when you're shopping. It stopped my wanting a new amp and effects and just makes everything sound better.

[Tycho]

One thing to bear in mind whether you're using a stompbox or switching between channels on an amp: you have to take some care to ensure that the volume of your crunch tone is where you want it to be.  Sometimes we're fooled into thinking a sound is louder when it's really just crunchier.  And a crunchier sound is more likely to get lost in the mix, because it's more compressed. 

I'm sure many of us have had the experience of stepping triumphantly on a stompbox as we go into our big solo only to find that instead our guitar practically disappears in the mix.

[ducktrapper]

Hoser Rob, thank you for that explanation. I've always preferred the sound of tubes over the solid state. I have a very old Jordan Stagemate 75 Watt amp that is super loud but, it doesn't have the sweetness that a tube amp has.
Sound like the "overdrive" is the way too go.

That or the Marshall. Heck, it's only about $3500.OO. btw the Boss pedal is an SD-1 Super Overdrive.

Hoser Rob - Good job. I so hate to go into details but I'm glad when someone will.

Tycho - I looked at that Traynor but it just didn't quite have the tone I was looking for. I ended up with a Blues Deluxe because its clean tone just kills. I want a great clean tone before I start junking it up. 

[tuffythepug]

. I ended up with a Blues Deluxe because its clean tone just kills. I want a great clean tone before I start junking it up. 

Good choice.   I have a '96 Fender Blues Deluxe which just kicks A-- for clean tone and you can turn up the drive and get that overdriven tube amp sound pretty easy although it's really loud.   I have found that the Fender Blues Jr. tube amp does the job real nice for a lot less money and you can get that tone at a much lower volume.     The Ibanez Tube Screamer pedal works great with either one as well if you want to go the pedal route.    I also had a Peavey Classic 30 whiich was even easier to get the overdriven sound out of. 
It's almost impossible to get the authentic tube tone from a solid state amp no matter what pedal or effect you use.

[Tycho]

I also had a Peavey Classic 30 whiich was even easier to get the overdriven sound out of.

I've got one of those too.  A great amp, especially for the money.

[unclrob]

"I've got one of those too.  A great amp, especially for the money."


I just retubed mine with Russian JJ's

[rrgguitarman]

I just retubed mine with Russian JJ's

Very nice sounding tubes, that's what I used on my Crate.

[sfumato]

what is the difference between Distortion and Overdrive? for that matter a Blues Driver?

Hi Ruben,

You've gotten a lot of good tips already, but I thought I'd add a few ideas for you to check out.  First, if you're having a fairly easy time getting the amp(s) to reach that breaking-up point, you could try a clean boost pedal to help drive the amp.  There are lots of different boosts out there...I just built one from a kit based on the Electro-harmonix Linear Power Boost that was around in the 70s.  EH also just released a "nano" version of this pedal for cheap, but I haven't used it so not sure how it is.  The boost adds a nice fatness and sparkle to the natural amp sound and would be great for solos, etc, or switching between clean and crunchy as needed...also can be used alongside an overdrive.  (I got my boost kit from General Guitar Gadgets and it was very easy to build: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?%20option=content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=103.)

As far as the overdrive to distortion continuum, the way I understand it, something like a Boss Blues Driver is considered a "low gain" overdrive.  The SD-1 is very similar to the Ibanez tube screamer circuit.  Personally, I find the boss pedals to be a bit harsh, and also that any tube screamer (TS808) based circuit adds too much mid-hump to the overall sound.  I have a Barber LTD black and it is a great low gain overdrive pedal.  Barber now has two more versions of the LTD, the Silver and Silver SR (special recipe)....I think the Silver is an even flatter eq than the black and the SR has some adjustable trim pots.  I think the LTD black is great and works well with both my vintage Blackface Deluxe and my little 5 watt Epi Valve Junior for blues.

Barber also makes several other flavors of drive, distortion and boost, which seem to be well reviewed....I guess they'd be considered "boutique" pedals, but at least they're not three hundred dollars a piece.  Mostly around $100-150, I think, so not cheap but not outrageous, as pedals go.  If you really want to splurge, check out Lovepedal....the COT50 seems really dynamic and amp-like for a solid-state pedal (of course, it comes with a price to match).

Have fun!
Jane

[rrgguitarman]

I want to thank all of you for your input. A bunch to chew on. Sounds like you could end with a bunch of pedals rather quickly!
The thread on the Janglebox really got me thinking about exploring the "Electric" sound a bit more.
G.A.S. is a wonderful thing.
         

[imwjl]

I want to thank all of you for your input. A bunch to chew on. Sounds like you could end with a bunch of pedals rather quickly!
The thread on the Janglebox really got me thinking about exploring the "Electric" sound a bit more.
G.A.S. is a wonderful thing.
         

I wonder how much the JangleBox is like the Sonic Stomp?? Upon looking into the JangleBox a bit they seem similar, but described differently by their makers. In use I'll say that my Sonic Stomp will make a jangle sound when you turn up the "Process" dial which might be like the "Attack" dial on the JangleBox, but I see the JangleBox' other dial is gain where the second dial on the Sonic Stomp is "Lo Contour" and is not at all like a gain control on an amp. The best description I can think of for the "Lo Contour" is that it makes low frequencies and plucking strings more percussive. Over a bit if time I backed off on the Process setting and get a result that is like taking a blankets off your amp or opening up your ears. When the Process is pushed up it will get more of a whah and jangle tone. I sold my Strat, but the effect if that's what it is makes the front pickup of my Tele addictive and it brings out more bass and punch when using the bridge pickup.

I also contacted several makers of stomp boxes with USB and recording capabilities and there will be Vista drivers coming and/or new models. That influenced my decisions knowing something like the Sonic Stomp or maybe the JangleBox will add to those. It is advised that the Stomp be the last in the chain, but as I said earlier it basically stopped me wanting any specific effect pedal and just makes me crave for the native Tele sound.

FWIW: You might not want to pursue these at a zoo-like store (read GC) where it's hard to hear the subtleties or test with head phones. I also got mine for way less than any of the popular stores sell at Full Compass where working with a sales rep gets you better prices.

Have fun shopping and testing and thinking about it all!

[ducktrapper]

Still waiting on the JangleBox.