Another revelation at NAMM is the introduction of a small run of Sapele guitars! Jean bought a small supply of high grade Sapele and is offering a limited number of D-03's with Sapele and Spruce tops, and an even smaller number of OM-03's with Sapele and Spruce. Right now they say that the Sapele won't be a regular addition to the product line, but with the price of genuine south American mahogany getting higher every day my guess is that they will eventually have to find an affordable, sustainable wood to replace it. Sapele may be the wood to use. Martin, Taylor, and other big name builders have all switched to Sapele, so it wouldn't be unusual. I'll also post some pics of the Sapele -03's on Saturday if I can. J
That's interesting news.. Thanks Jason.
Better stock up on the genuine mahogany while you still can! (I've got my baby in check)
-dan
Quote from: guitarcrazy on January 20, 2006, 01:28:48 AM
Martin, Taylor, and other big name builders have all switched to Sapele, so it wouldn't be unusual. I'll also post some pics of the Sapele -03's on Saturday if I can. J
Well, I just hope that Larrivee tells us when they are using sapele and other woods instead of using phrases like "mahogany or sapele" or "select hardwoods" as Martin does. Sapele and other woods are fine by me...I just want to know what I am getting.
Jim
This was bound to happen, Mahogany will go the way of Brazilian Rosewood. 15 years from now you will kick yourself for selling or not buying a South American Mahogany guitar. The price of the wood has started an up-word trend over the last 12 to 15 months. Neck stock for my classical guitars has gone from $45 to over $90. That is a blank that I get two necks from.
I am sure that the new Sapele guitars will be very nice. I just hope that Larrivee will continue to have the South American Mahogany available for some time. Martin has already started shipping there standard series guitars ( d18, d28 HD28 etc.) with Spanish Cedar necks. A very nice wood and my preferred wood for classical necks.
Just think of a hippie in the 60'S playing his or her Brazilian roeswood guitar at an sit in for and environmental cause. Not knowing that the wood of the guitar was to become and endangered species in a few short years. How many of you were one of these people?
I still am. The idea of hoarding or desiring an endangered species is digusting to me. I don't care about how much money it'll make you or what you think it sounds like. Walnut, maple, cherry, Ash, birch all make incredible guitars.
As we watch storms hit at cat 3 or 4 or 5 its due to climate warming. Period. Fact. Gee guess the cutting of rainforrests for a 19th century mindset wasn't worth it ........................
We don't need souvenirs of destruction. and we pay the price in so many other ways. New Orleans for one.
you asked.
All the more reason why we shouldn't discourage manufacturers who fool around with alternative materials, like Reverend, or Martin with HPL.
Quote from: TrinityGuitars on January 20, 2006, 11:42:48 AM
This was bound to happen, Mahogany will go the way of Brazilian Rosewood. 15 years from now you will kick yourself for selling or not buying a South American Mahogany guitar. The price of the wood has started an up-word trend over the last 12 to 15 months. Neck stock for my classical guitars has gone from $45 to over $90. That is a blank that I get two necks from.
I am sure that the new Sapele guitars will be very nice. I just hope that Larrivee will continue to have the South American Mahogany available for some time. Martin has already started shipping there standard series guitars ( d18, d28 HD28 etc.) with Spanish Cedar necks. A very nice wood and my preferred wood for classical necks.
Just think of a hippie in the 60'S playing his or her Brazilian roeswood guitar at an sit in for and environmental cause. Not knowing that the wood of the guitar was to become and endangered species in a few short years. How many of you were one of these people?
Thanks for the insight on this trend. As the price of Mahogany spirals up people are probably going to get pushed off of following tradition and accepting different tone woods in quality instruments. I've read that a long time ago Martin used only Spanish Cedar for necks but switched to Mahogany when it became scarce. I'd guess that the average player back then was not as obsessed with details as us modern guitar geeks who constantly comb the internet for the latest words of wisdom. My Mahogany dread is my favorite instrument and the fact that it is built from honduran only makes me more inclined to not part with it as it's value goes up. The sapele guitars I've played have been very nice. I'd be suprised if I could hear any difference between a Sapele and a Mahogony instrument with identical build bracing and top wood. I am glad that Sitka is abundant. It sure makes excellent sound boards.
You sure its honduran? That resource is long gone with some exceptions of private wood dealers.
(http://www.pbase.com/image/55085710/original.jpg)
Sapele sample
i've seen some guitars made with sapele which looked very nice. don't know nothing about tonal qualities of the wood though.
Thats QUILTED Sapele, and not what you should expect on the new 03's.
Quote from: guitaradoptions on January 20, 2006, 02:10:15 PM
Thats QUILTED Sapele, and not what you should expect on the new 03's.
Darn... that'd be nice though.
-dan
I actually think there's some advantage to Sapele. With grades of mahogany getting worse the quality of the Sapele is quite good. Sound is very difficult to distinguish from "other" types of mahogany.
So is Sapele just as good as mohogany? Is there a difference in tone versus a difference in quality? I don't think it matters if it's not genuine mohogany, if it's equal in quality. But I have no expeirence with it.
Quote from: Peter Cree on January 20, 2006, 12:35:37 PM
You sure its honduran? That resource is long gone with some exceptions of private wood dealers.
I'm pretty sure it's Honduran. I assume that tone wood suppliers and builders who sell honduras mahogany are talking about the specie, swietenia macrophylla, which I think is mostly harvested in Brazil. I asked about the source of their mahogany when I toured H&D a couple of years ago which was about the time that I bought the guitar. Please take that rememberance with a grain of salt. They still list their mahogany necks as honduran. I'll ask them about it the next time I stop in for a visit. Personally I wouldn't care if the back and sides came from a tree in Cleveland except that it may effect it's value in years to come.
Having played both woods side by side both guitars being Larrivee's,a D02 sepella and a D03 mahogany,I never notice enough of a difference to matter.
I wish countries could manage other exotic woods as well as they have East Indian rosewood.
Quote from: jeremy3220 on January 20, 2006, 02:29:11 PM
So is Sapele just as good as mohogany? Is there a difference in tone versus a difference in quality? I don't think it matters if it's not genuine mohogany, if it's equal in quality. But I have no expeirence with it.
Sapele is a pretty facsinating sounding tonewood. It has a very BRIGHT and poppy sound to it, which makes it a very resonant sounding wood. It is also incredibly loud, which will sound great on any of the body shapes Larrivee offers, especially the good ol' Dread. I owned a Taylor 210 which had a sitka top and sapele back/sides and I absolutely loved the tone of it.
Hope that helps!
i don't see sapele as an inferior tonewood... i'm probably in the majority on that though... i do think that it wasn't the best move by Martin to start saying "mahogany or sapele", but i don't know another solution to that situation (at this point, i'd start betting on getting sapele if its newer). Webber does nice sapele guitars... really cool straight grain look.
Last year I got to play a Martin CEO V. Not sure if it's the sapele or the 12 fret neck, but that guitar sounded great. Highgrade sapele has a very nice shimmery striping 3D effect.
Hello everyone, it has been a very exhausting day. I was like a "kid in a candy shop". Of course, I am so over-stimulated by the cacophany of sounds and sights that I am glad today is over. The new Larrivee guitars are awesome. I have attached a couple of pics of the Larrivee booth, the new fingerstyle guitar, the Sapele D-03's, and some Morgan and Northwood guitars. Larrivee is a very close-knit, family operation that I am very glad to be a part of. Today I got to speak to Jean, Matthew, Jean Jr, Ricky Thompson, Corey Thompson, and Ben Thompson of Larrivee, and David Iannone of Morgan and John McQuarrie of Northwood. Morgan and Northwood had some incredible wood on their display guitars, including figured Bubinga and quilted Sapele at Morgan, and Ziricote and Koa at Northwood. I apologize in advance for the pictures, it was hard to get good shots in the lighting there in the arena. I can't wait for the new guitars to ship, they are all excellent. The Sapele is very similar to mahogany, prettier than most standard 03 Series mahogany (at least on the show guitars), and the new Baggs electronics are awesome (I already carried Baggs, so I am happy with the switch!). Now, off to Disney for the rest of the trip with the family (pray for me, two kids, 5 theme parks in 5 days, I hope I survive!). Jason
(http://www.notableguitars.com/gallery/Larrivee%20Booth.JPG)
(http://www.notableguitars.com/gallery/LSV-11.JPG)
(http://www.notableguitars.com/gallery/LSV-11%20Side.JPG)
(http://www.notableguitars.com/gallery/Morgan%20OO%20Bubinga.JPG)
(http://www.notableguitars.com/gallery/Northwood%20Ziricote.JPG)
(http://www.notableguitars.com/gallery/D-03%20Sapele%20Back.JPG)
(http://www.notableguitars.com/gallery/D-03%20Sapele%20Side.JPG)
(http://www.notableguitars.com/gallery/D-03E%20Baggs.JPG)
thanks for putting those pics up Jason,,,now i'm drooling all over the place. :SHK>
Thanks for the pics Jason. Have a blast at Disney.
-josh
What is the wood on the back of the guitar on the 5th picture...WOW! That is very cool! :SHK> :TON>
Quote from: inspector13 on January 21, 2006, 11:34:36 PM
What is the wood on the back of the guitar on the 5th picture...WOW! That is very cool! :SHK> :TON>
Back of the 5th picture is Ziricote.
Quote from: didymus21 on January 22, 2006, 12:12:53 AM
Back of the 5th picture is Ziricote.
It doesn't look like a Larrivee body style.
You are correct Randy, that is a Northwood. David Iannone and John McQuarrie both had some really wild looking wood on their show guitars. There was a double neck acoustic on display at another booth, on one side i was a 6 string, and on the other side it is a 12 string. Two soundholes, one on each side. I didn't play it, but it was certainly something that made you look twice. J
Exciting! I heard a rumour about 3 months ago re a Larrivee short scale and now it's reality - it looks great. I wonder what it will sell for in Canadian $. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the rosewood binding. I prefer a lighter wood (maple etc.) for bindings on rosewood. I wonder if custom options can be added e.g. inlays etc.?
I guess I'll have to sell a guitar or two to afford one!
Joe
Thanks for posting Jason. NAMM to Disney... Talk about a sensory overload weekend! My GAS is back, but the cash isn't. :<>
Quote from: guitarcrazy on January 22, 2006, 10:35:07 AM
You are correct Randy, that is a Northwood. David Iannone and John McQuarrie both had some really wild looking wood on their show guitars. There was a double neck acoustic on display at another booth, on one side i was a 6 string, and on the other side it is a 12 string. Two soundholes, one on each side. I didn't play it, but it was certainly something that made you look twice. J
I've talked to Mcquarrie about that Ziricote, as he was building it. Did you play it? How did it sound?
I did play it, and it had an awesome rumble against my belly. I wish I could tell you how great it sounded, but the truth is it is so loud in there that I couldn't hear it as well as I would like (there was an amp maker with a large display right across the aisle, and every headbanger in the place seemed to be there cranking it up to 11!). All of his guitars were amazing, as were the Morgan's and Larrivee's. David Iannone of Morgan had an awesome Jumbo on display. For those of you who miss the Larrivee jumbo, the Morgan jumbo will cure that gas. One more day of Disney and the beach and then I'll be ready to head back to the shop. Sorry for the delay in responding to some of your inquiries while on the trip, I'll be back to full speed soon. Jason
I have an observation because I am so very keen and just generally being an a$$ :GRN>.
1. The short Scale is a beautiful guitar, but the pyramid bridge dont work well with the standard HS. (my 3 cents, yes 3 cents, hahah)
2. MORE importantly, It has a larger sound hole (shifted brace I think someone mentioned)!! So it will be like the vintage version of the L-body, very very interesting. (I think adding some upper mids to the rosewood would make it a killer guitar, because the L body (I know this is an LS) rosewood guitars could really use some upper mids ).
3. It has 09 trim (with the leaves and not the bridge wings and the border binding shells), so not actually 10 trim.
I say... in the name of consistency
a. Use the regular bridge (or go with a vintage headstock, slotted would be great also)
b. Either save some clams (pun intended) and lose the FB inlay, OR go full out and give it the 10 series inlay (maybe even the vine HS inlay) and the borders.
Finally...
No matter what this looks like, It will be a prodigy of a guitar. With the shorter scale the playability will be amazing too. I can't wait for it to come out, but then again, I am cheap cheap man. I'd get a used one, but the way it's looking, this will be a keeper of a guitar for most ppl.