Hey everyone
My local store has a Cool moisture humidifier and a warm mist humidifier.
Does Larry care?
Thanks..chris
Yes! I go warm mist all the way. My warm mist humidifier has solved all my guitar humidification problems. I simply set the onboard hygrometer to 50% RH and keep it filled with distilled water and I can keep all my guitars out on stands ready to play all winter! I love it. No messy filters crusted with ugly calcium and lime to clean up! I just rinse the base out and set the heat element in some vinegar for a few minutes each month and it is clean again.
Plus, it is very dry here in Calgary Alberta ALL YEAR LONG! I use the warm mist during the summer as well as the RH can dip to 10% when the wind blows.
Warm
Don't get either warm mist or cool mist. Get an evapoprative humidifier instead. The mist humidifiers can put out a dust that gets all over everything in the room. The dust is attracted to electronic equipment like TVs and computer monitors.
Jim
I use warm mist with digital % readout/control, and a $25 digital hygromter sitting close to the guitars to confirm accuracy. Hanging wet towels (poor man's evaporitive humidifier) in the room after showering helps too during the dryest months. Larrys like 45-50% at 70ºF.
Quote from: jwsamuel on January 05, 2006, 11:06:50 PM
Don't get either warm mist or cool mist. Get an evapoprative humidifier instead. The mist humidifiers can put out a dust that gets all over everything in the room. The dust is attracted to electronic equipment like TVs and computer monitors.
Jim
This has never happened to me as I use only distilled water. It is the minerals in the water that are deposited as "dust". It helps if you have an electric water distiller though.
This comes right from Larrivee's recommondations.
"Using a cool mist room humidifier (not evaporative) will really help to bring up the moisture. You want the type that actually sprays mist".
Both
Warm = Winter
Evaporative = Summer
Larry loves it.
Stan
NO,NO,No..................never use the cool mist type. The rise in Rh is way too low. And they are a hassle to keep clean. Distilled water can get pricey and you can get quite the cough.
Only get the warm mist type. The type that boils the water so you get pure H2O. It likes tap water of any hardness and they have no filters to clean. Once a week you pull them apart and use some vinger and all the scale comes off. A few drops of bleach into the main water container. Wait 30 minutes and rinse. No bacteria.
I have two of these after trying everything on the market. The cool mist type are awful and don't humidify the guitars well at all. I get my house up to 50% with the two 24.00, wal-mart specials (holmes). Living in the New Mexico dryness makes it essential to take care of all my guitars this way.
What would Larrivee know about these things when they live in the land of moisture. They should get that info off their site.
Just an opinion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..............yeh right.
So are we saying that
Brian Trepanier
Customer Service Representative
Larrivee Guitars Ltd.
604-253-7111
is wrong or just that different enviornments require different humidifiers? That info came from the post
http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=9626.0 Feeding and Care of your Larrivee
cheers
I just read the other thread on care and feeding of your Larrivee............
Yes, I'm saying Brian (with all due respect) is wrong. Very wrong on some of that info.
Set-ups 2x a year? Cool mist? Wrong. If you need a set-up that often then you need a different guitar.
Sorry but don't follow some of these suggestions. Hate to be a party pooper here but I'm very experienced in these issues especially owning 20 guitars in the Desert of New Mexico.
Once again, sorry to be antogonistic. I'm not. I just throughly disagree with some of the statements. I can barely believe wht I just read.
Cheers, Please I mean no harm here. Just the opposite.
Thanks Peter for the honest opinions. I get the feeling that theory and practice are 2 different things and warm is the way to go.
chris
I and others here would be happy to talk about these things on the forum. I respect Brian and his opinions. Certainly they mean well and are very informed.
If Brian wants to chime in, welcome. We can discuss these things with respect and calm.
Cheers.
Well said! I am sure there is reasoning behind the "cool mist" comment as Brian is a well respected person.
I think it depends on where you live, as to whether or not the cool mist will do an adequate job of humidifying. I really prefer the warm mist but I think it will make my room feel hotter than it already is during the summer.
I've been using a Vornado evaporator type humidifier for 2 years now, and am considing a different type, so I'm reading this thread with interest. Great info, and excellent low-key discussion with differing opinions. (Really appreciate the quality folk here!) This is what I'm using: http://www.vornado.com/model40.htm
It maintains 40% in a mid-western house with forced are heat. This is a real problem room. Upstairs, well insulated, converted attic office with heating vent that gets way too much heat. Thermostat is downstairs. On a cold winter eve it can shoot up to 85 degrees. In the winter I tape the heater vent closed and use a sealed oil room heater and this humidifier.
My main complaints about my current humidifier are:
- At 50% it feels like 75% I can feel the humidity in the air.
- Very prone to bacteria - have to use treatment with every fill
- Filters fill with lime a it flakes off in a few weeks.
- must be filled ever 2 days (probably can't get away from that)
Peter, you say you keep your whole house at 50% with two humidifiers? What make and model are they? I'd like to check them out. Also, I question the accuracy of my humidity guage. Where can I get one that's accurate for a reasonable price?
Thanks,
David
Well, though I personally live in the land of moisture, I use a cool mist when the santa anna winds kick up here. The humidity gets down to 10-15% in very short order. However the heat is usually very high because it is desert wind.
I bought mine at target for 25 bucks and it's in the shape of a penguin - yeah a penguin. I fill it with R.O. water and it works like a dream. I put it on a table, and put a fan beside it so that it moves the moisture into the air. My guitar storage room is bang-on at 45%
Really you can use EITHER warm or cool mist as long as you are using humidification. It is six of one, half dozen of another.
Matthew
Each climate is different and I've lived in them all. And I get in guitars from all over the world. So watching a guitar come in from England is quite the experience....
And I've used all the types........waste of bucks. For me theres no comparison. The rate of moisture entering the air in a cool mist is so much lower than a warm. Plus anything with the filters etc are ,as you say, really prone to bacteria. cough,cough!
Right now I live in an Adobe house which functions so well. Warm in winter, cool in summer. 22" thick walls. So, the efficiency is far greater in this type of house.
I've spent 10 years living in California with guitars. No comparison. So what works for Matt is good for Matt. Just isn't my experience.
The humidifiers I speak of are made by Holmes.........24.00 per unit, Auto-off switch.(wal-mart cheapies) And like I said, I've tried all the rest and have a nice collection in the storage unit..........cool mist are unable to transfer the necessary moisture very far. Move your hygrometer away from your guitars and you'll see immediately what I'm talking about. Seems like they humidify a 5 foot circle. I have a hygrometer near the guitars and in the adjoining room. I take the one in the kitchen as spot on. When I had just the cool mist the max I could reach in winter was around 35 to 40 %. MAX. BUT the moisture would not permeate the air well. Looked good. But I was still having problems with tops. (minor) just because a unit is spewing mist doesn't mean it's entering the air well. Cool moisture likes to keep to itself and not disperse well.
Switched to the cheapies and bingo, tops are up, all is very healthy. The air enters the guitar. Surrounds it as well. Thats why I'm all for getting the guitars out of the case and up on stands. You then humidify the entire guitar. How does moisture permeate in a case? What physics could possibly move that moisture around. I think you get more cracks with the baggie sponge or the other types of in-guitar moisturizers.
Thanks for answering Matt. We appreciate it and respect you for it. Obviously I'm very opinionated here due to the extremes of high altitude and desert conditions. Altitude matters alot. I'm at 6100ft. Santa Fe is 7000ft. Nitro dries in 10 minutes. Buffable in 24 hours or less.
And yes, I sure appreciate the calm discussion of dissenting opinions. I only go to two forums now to avoid flaming and egos etc. This should be about experienced differing views. No competition for "know it all" of the week. People here are very nice and thats why I hang around.
I have to agree with Peter. My guitars are out on stands in 40% - 45% RH all year long and they seem to like it. I've done exactly one setup on my L05 since I've owned it.
Peter, is it this one?
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=870414&sourceid=0100000030660804902498
This is the one I have. Works great.
http://store.yahoo.com/dmart/honhwwarmois.html
Great discussion everyone. Thanks Matthew for speaking up!
One word about damits (or any in guitar devices) ..i tried 2 in mine , one in the sound hole and 1 under neck with a hydometer. After 8 hours it read 38% from 33%. ...so I don't think they work very well.
My new warm mist humidifier is warming up as a speak. Don't cry Larry...moisture is on the way!!
Dam this toronto weather.
I'm definitely going to take Peter's advice, even if I am in Pittsburgh, which is on the midwest's doorstep. Up until now I've been spoiled by the low relatively maintenance of a laminated guitar so humidity has only been an issue with regards to the fretboard, but I anticipate having some funds to enable my first Larriveee purchase - hopefully not too long now, but that's a whole 'nother story!
Back on-topic:
I've gone through TWO cool mist humidifiers in as many years. They are a pain in the @$$ to clean and obviously I didn't do too good a job because I fried the electronics on both in the same manner. Another issue - which is purely my fault - is that I used tap water so that everything in the room is covered with calcified white dust. The benefits were not even that god and barely noticable. In a 11'x12' room the RH topped out at 43% only if the door was closed. With the door open it hovered around 35%. In all fairness, going without would be much worse - RH goes below 20% which is below the bottom of my Radio Shack hygrometer's range.
I may give the warm mist humidifier a shot if I'm able to purchase a Larrivee before the spring comes. By then I will have a couple of months before the AC kicks on and dries the house out again! :rolleyes:
Quote from: drathbun on January 06, 2006, 02:43:14 PM
This is the one I have. Works great. http://store.yahoo.com/dmart/honhwwarmois.html
Thanks, Doug.
By the way, You look great in that Santa hat ^_^
I just bought a new cool mist humidifier from Bed, Bath and Beyond for $25. It has two fan speeds, and a presets for humidity between 40 and 60%. This thing is great. Super quite, and more than does the job in the room I store my guitars in (about 10x10). I also have one of those wireless Radio Shack sensors, and that reads about 5% points higher than the setting on the humidifier. I'd strongly recommend this one (you can probably use on of those 20-40% off everything in the store coupons). Almost forgot to say that it is a Holmes 1Touch.
Andy
(http://randyrick.us/guitars/humidifier.JPG)
Georgia humidifier....
Ok, I've had my humidifier running for 3 hours and my Planet Waves has gone from 33 to 30% RH. It sits about 3 feet from the opening of the humidifier. What gives? Am I sitting in an anti-humidity room or something?
Quote from: dberch on January 06, 2006, 03:34:42 PM
Thanks, Doug.
By the way, You look great in that Santa hat ^_^
LOL! Thanks David! I need something to cover that great shiny spot... for the camera glare don'tcha know?
Did you notice that my son couldn't be photographed WITHOUT his new Yamaha?
D.
Peter, I would also be interested to know what exact model holmes you are using.
I'm currently using an evaporative style I got at walmart, which I guess is the same as a cool mist style.
The thing about humidifiers that scares me is if I go to, amazon.com for example, almost every style out there has really bad reviews by users. A while back I was willing to spend $100+ on a GOOD humidifier, but it seemed that even the expensive ones got bad reviews.
BTW-The 'Vornado' that someone mentioned in this thread was one of the top rated humidifiers there.
Based on the various threads on the subject I read here, I bought a warm mist model. It's the QuickSteam #HWM-450 by Honeywell. So far I'm satisfied. It raises the RH to desired % in no time in my "guitar room" (11x12'). The door is open so the rest of the appartment gets some humidity as well.
After 2 days of experimenting with my Honey(well) :SHK> I've finally got the RH to settle around 40 to 43%. I had to keep the setting at a very low level and keep the door open about 2 inches. With the door wide open i think all the moist air was collecting at the ceiling and as it moved lower it would leave the room rather than collect lower at the guitar level. Wih the door closed it would go up to 60% in no time. It was actually at 60% for about 5 hours at one point and 2 bands of brown colour have shown up on the lower bout of Larry. Do you think this is a permanant issue due to too much moisture? GRRRR :huh:
thanks..chris
My allergies were bothered by both evaporative and cool mist humidifiers. I just used tap(well) water so that might have been some of my problem. I'm very pleased with my Holmes warm mist I bought at Wal Mart. I'll try to find a link to the exact model. Don't just "throw" humidity at your guitar. Get a hgrometer and make sure it's accurate. Even the "good" ones are not always completely accurate. You can check your hygrometer with the salt test. This information is taken from the UMGF so I won't have to type so much.
QuoteThe following information is provided courtesy of Joe McNamara:
WHY SHOULD I CHECK MY HYGROMETER'S CALIBRATION?
Even if you don't want to open it's case and adjust your hygrometer, you would be well advised to check its calibration. These are not the precision instruments that some people think... Analog (dial-type) hygrometers are often shipped as much as 20% out of spec. Even the often-recommended Radio Shack hygrometer is shipped with a factory tolerance 5 % of humidity.
PROCEDURE: You'll need a zip-lock baggie, about a teaspoon of salt, and a small, shallow open container for that salt (use the screw cap from a bottle).
Place a teaspoon or so of salt in its container and add a few drops of water to get it wet. You don't want to dissolve it, just get a good damp pile of salt in your bottle cap. Important Just a few drops, you want damp salt, NOT a solution. Place it in the baggie, along with your hygrometer. DON'T SPILL ANY SALT ON YOUR INSTRUMENT! Be sure the Hygrometer isn't in it's "min" or "max" mode.
Seal the baggie with some air trapped inside (so it's not tight against the hygrometer) and let it sit. Allow this to stabilize overnight, or for a minimum of six (6) hours. After the internal "system" has stabilized, check your reading without opening the baggie. It should be exactly 75%. If not, note the deviation - this is how much your hygrometer is out.
Radio Shack #63-855 Calibration (note: this also works for the Radio Shack# 63-1013 that a lot of you folks use).
Careful, mess-up here, and you could damage your hygrometer!
Remove the battery door, the batteries, and finally the back of the unit. along the top edge of the PC board inside, you'll see two round, flattish metal disks (micro-pots - only one micro pot on the #63-1013) Don't touch the left one, you'll be working only with the one on the right. First, look at it closely. You'll see a indent for a tiny screwdriver blade across the middle. Sketch it's exact position carefully - this procedure might take several days, and you will forget the original orientation if you don't write it down!
You'll be turning this right pot a tiny amount to change the humidity reading (1/8 turn might change your reading by 3 or 4%). DO NOT turn it more that 1/4 turn! If you were reading above 75% in the calibration test, turn this pot clockwise, again only a tiny amount... If your reading was low, turn it slightly counter-clockwise...
You can leave the back off to save some effort, and put the batteries back in now. Be sure the "min" and "max" functions are turned off, and place the hygrometer back in your baggie with the salt. Again, let it stabilize for 6 hours, and don't let it touch the wet salt.
Check your reading, and re-adjust if necessary. Be patient, you may have to try a few times to get it right. If you feel you're getting nowhere, set the pot back to exactly where it was when you started.
When you're satisfied with your setting (set it to + 1% of 75%) remove the batteries, re-assemble the unit, and give it one final check.
I am using the Planet Waves sensor.
http://www.planetwaves.com/NewsDetails.aspx?ParID=6210
Does anyone use this and how accurate do we think it is. I'd hate to be setting my humidity to 45%..just to find out its 15% off and I'm at 60%.
chris
Quote from: Crunchy Wacko on January 08, 2006, 08:16:19 PM
I am using the Planet Waves sensor.
http://www.planetwaves.com/NewsDetails.aspx?ParID=6210
Does anyone use this and how accurate do we think it is. I'd hate to be setting my humidity to 45%..just to find out its 15% off and I'm at 60%.
chris
Check it with the salt test describe above. It isn't much trouble and you'll know if it's right. My hygrometer is off 4%. Since I know that it's not a problem.
I'm gonna put my hat in the ring, so to speak. I have a couple of beater guitars that hang on a wall in a spare bedroom ,which is also where some of my guitars live in their cases. A couple of others are stashed under beds ...but anything I have of value lives in it's hard case. Am I not doing right by my better guitars? I keep the humidifiers that slip in and rest between the strings in the cases, and fill them about every other week, except when I travel to dry climates, then they get checked daily. I've been at a show in NM, found that my guitar sounded "Dry" and popped the humidifier back in, newly filled, left it for about an hour, and my guitar feels right again.
No offense, you guys sound very knowledgeable, but I don't want to have to keep my guitars out in a condo I share with a non-musician husband and a sometimes visiting teenage stepson....makes me too nervous to have guitars out of their cases. Give me your thoughts, please!
Hey Cowgirl
I also had that humidifer that slipped between the strings and a 2nd one under the neck. I layed my sensor in their too..left it over night...it read 32%. Not sure how good those little humidifers are..or how accurate the sensor is.
Cheers..chris
Wow, quite a group of experiences. I don't quite understand how the RH could have dropped.......the models I use are HM5250's. they take about a gallon and a half of water. i have a well so it's pretty hard water.
Once a week I soak the unit in vinegar to get out the scale/calcium. Then I add clorox to the water and let it sit for an hour. Rinse and ready to go.
Maybe the dimensions of the room etc have something to do with the efficiency of the units. the clorox bit is essential to stop allergies etc. I suppose each room and its drafts ,ceiling height,temp etc would make a difference. I keep mine about two feet away from the guitars with one at each end of the room. The ceiling height is @12' (cathedral ceiling in that room) and has a large arched adobe doorway with no door. Heat comes from hot water under the cement floor. (very nice)
I gauge the RH from my hygrometer in the next room. If 45 to 50% I know the guitars are getting more than that. I check them daily ,at least, and gauge actual RH entering the guitars by the relief of the necks and flatness or roundness of the tops depending on what style it is. Also the sound tells me alot.
As long as all the wood is looking and sounding good I'm happy with the results. The difference for me between the moist mist and cool are extreme. Last year I had alot of trouble with the cool mist getting anything into the soundholes etc and tops were sinking. My big "ah hah" came when I was putting on the kettle for tea and the RH immediately went up to the proper levels. So that pict of the kero-heater with a pot of water is actually an excellent way to go.
If you're closing the door and setting at low to get 45% then thats actually pretty good. Ideal really. So the factor of the room's design is affecting the entire process. Obviously each climate and building are also factors here.
Planet Waves Humidity Sensor
Regarding the test below: I tried this on my Planet Waves sensor and got 74% after 24 hours...so it looks pretty accurate.
Chris
PROCEDURE: You'll need a zip-lock baggie, about a teaspoon of salt, and a small, shallow open container for that salt (use the screw cap from a bottle).
Place a teaspoon or so of salt in its container and add a few drops of water to get it wet. You don't want to dissolve it, just get a good damp pile of salt in your bottle cap. Important Just a few drops, you want damp salt, NOT a solution. Place it in the baggie, along with your hygrometer. DON'T SPILL ANY SALT ON YOUR INSTRUMENT! Be sure the Hygrometer isn't in it's "min" or "max" mode.
Seal the baggie with some air trapped inside (so it's not tight against the hygrometer) and let it sit. Allow this to stabilize overnight, or for a minimum of six (6) hours. After the internal "system" has stabilized, check your reading without opening the baggie. It should be exactly 75%. If not, note the deviation - this is how much your hygrometer is out.
Chris,
I also just tried this test with the same hygrometer, but only got about 60% overnight. Now...48 hours later it's at about 75%, but....
So I'm going to try it again.
Those who tested- Did you use a small sandwhich bag, or a bigger ~12"x12" bag? (like I did)
Hi
I tested using a very small plastic container..about the size of a sandwich...6X4. I am guessing that the bigger the bag/container..the longer it takes to stabalize. I also borrowed a Bionaire hydrometer and sitting beside my Planet Waves in my humidfied room its regesters 1% point higher.
Looks like it is accurate also.
Chris
I have an Envirocare Hygrometer/Thermometer ($10.95 at Home Depot in the humidifer department). I did the calibration using a 12 x 12 Ziploc Freezer bag, a table spoon of salt and some water. I set it up at about 8pm last night and at 6:30am this morning it read 74%...... So if the test is accurate it reads 1% lower than what it should.
Dr. P