I've been watching some YT videos on this and have listened to some of the music tuned to this lower pitch.  I'm not interested in the conspiracies that go along with the topic, but the sound is very intriguing.  I'm thinking of trying it out soon.  Have any of you messed around with this 432 tuning?

Firstly, good luck and hope you get something useful from this.  I've listened to some of the YT videos as well and would not say one 'sounds' better than the other to me.  Slight differences in the quality of the sound is the best way I would describe it. 

I guess if you don't play with others, this would be just something else to experiment with just as alternate tunings are.

Also interesting to note that there are orchestras in different parts of the world that use tunings different than 440.  If you were a journeyman musician and played in various orchestras, I imagine that would be a bit of a pain.  As to the audiences in each case noticing a difference, I highly doubt that.

Have fun.  Let us know if you hear anything or if you are inspired differently with either tuning.

I pretty much never play with others so there's no difficulty there.  I will need to get another tuner where I can set the pitch differently since my Snark defaults to 440.  I can definitely hear the differences in the sound examples
I've heard on YT.  The best way I can describe it is it's less bright but not darker: it's really just more lush and mellow overall, like the music breathes a bit more.  I dislike standard tuning and never use it because to me it sounds tight, stifled, and makes guitars harder to play and therefore less enjoyable.  YMMV.  So something like this is of interest to me.

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 18, 2022, 02:01:54 PM
I pretty much never play with others so there's no difficulty there.  I will need to get another tuner where I can set the pitch differently since my Snark defaults to 440.  I can definitely hear the differences in the sound examples

I've had a number of Snark and D'Addario tuners (I lose things) and they all could be adjusted. The D'Addario on the front and the Snark on the back.
However, I have not done anything with 432, unless it was by accident.
Mike

Briefly tried it but that resulted in zero interest from me as it wasn't "better" in any way, and I don't want to throw off my ear. I'm far from having perfect pitch but I sing, so screwing with my throat's muscle memory is not something I want to do. I know plenty of people can with no problem but I've worked really hard to develop a decent sense of pitch and wouldn't benefit from changing. I use alternative tunings all the time to get a different/better sound, but all based on 440.

YouTube can be amazingly helpful but it's also a wellspring for bad info. For me, the arguments for switching are massively dwarfed by the fact that most things are in 440.

Let us know how it works out for you though! It's always good to experiment

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 18, 2022, 02:01:54 PM
I pretty much never play with others so there's no difficulty there.  I will need to get another tuner where I can set the pitch differently since my Snark defaults to 440.  I can definitely hear the differences in the sound examples
I've heard on YT.  The best way I can describe it is it's less bright but not darker: it's really just more lush and mellow overall, like the music breathes a bit more.  I dislike standard tuning and never use it because to me it sounds tight, stifled, and makes guitars harder to play and therefore less enjoyable.  YMMV.  So something like this is of interest to me.

You might possibly be a good candidate for a baritone.
Ever played one?

Quote from: Queequeg on December 18, 2022, 06:53:34 PM
You might possibly be a good candidate for a baritone.
Ever played one?

Wow, great idea.  I've never even seen one in person much less played one.  I did have an octave mandolin for a while.  It got old quick.

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 18, 2022, 07:04:09 PM
Wow, great idea.  I've never even seen one in person much less played one.  I did have an octave mandolin for a while.  It got old quick.

I've heard some people say that about baritones, too. "It got old quick".
Not for me, though. I love the baritone. Reminds me so much of a cello. I only play instrumentals, though. Singers may not like it quite so well, maybe.
It's tuned a 4th below the guitar, so B to b.
But I use all my open and altered tunings on it.
To my ear it sounds best on traditional and slower tunes.
I play some Celtic and DADGAD stuff on it and prefer some of them to guitar.
It sounds great on "Shenandoah". Also "A Whiter Shade Of Pale" (if you like those tunes).

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 18, 2022, 12:00:45 PM
I've been watching some YT videos on this and have listened to some of the music tuned to this lower pitch.  I'm not interested in the conspiracies that go along with the topic, but the sound is very intriguing.  I'm thinking of trying it out soon.  Have any of you messed around with this 432 tuning?

I am curious. I believe you say you tune down a step on the acoustic, so is your plan to tune down to 432 from "standard pitch", or go even lower by tuning guitar to 432 from your "one-step down" pitch?
Mike

As many others have said, playing with others means being in a "standard" tuning. Since that "standard" for most is 440, that's what I stick to.  And, I didn't think about it before reading Bowie's comment.... It occurs to me that a different tuning would most likely render my not quite horrible voice unlistenable.

Ed

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 18, 2022, 07:04:09 PM
Wow, great idea.  I've never even seen one in person much less played one.  I did have an octave mandolin for a while.  It got old quick.

Quote from: Queequeg on December 18, 2022, 06:53:34 PM
You might possibly be a good candidate for a baritone.
Ever played one?

I have a decent mandolin, I struggle with the thin neck, but it is fun to use to accompany myself, in simple ways.
Got an octave mandolin, to be honest, I hated it, and returned it for no loss.
Took a dare on an Irish bouzouki (like an octave, but at a standard guitar scale), and I love it.
I didn't get a cheapo zouk, but really good ones cost a ton. Has a wider neck. And works with the guitar well.
In the future, I will either get a better zouk or even a cittern.
Regarding baritones, they are lovely instruments. Played several, loved them, and considered a purchase. But if part of the tuning equation isn't GDAE or GDAD (mandolin, bouzouki, violin) then it is outside my zone, since the relationship to the guitar is established via EADG or DADG and is easier for me to understand. I don't read music.
Sorry to get off topic.
Mike

Sorry to sidetrack, but the "got old quick" subject, that's an interesting one. I almost got a baritone 6 or 7 years ago when they were going through a fad period. Then, I saw so many of them come up for sale used in the couple years following that. I still want one, but I've not been playing enough to justify it lately.

I think I can make this simple,basically your tuning a half step down across the strings.When I'm just playing and singing a tune by myself I tune a half step down so I can sing in tune.Theres a whole history of how A 440 became standard.




Keep smilin and keep dancin  :nanadance

Quote from: mike in lytle on December 18, 2022, 07:50:21 PM
I am curious. I believe you say you tune down a step on the acoustic, so is your plan to tune down to 432 from "standard pitch", or go even lower by tuning guitar to 432 from your "one-step down" pitch?
Mike

Wow, this thread got lively!  Nice!  Yes, I keep my guitar tuned down a whole step at all times (well, not today when I absolutely fell in love with DADGAD, but that's a different thread).  So yes, I'd have to establish the 432 pitch and then go down a full step.  I'm genuinely curious.

My Snark has no pitch-shifting feature on the back. I'll either have to get another tuner or tune off YT till I get one.

 I don't see how this would affect singing anymore than capo usage would?  Since one just has to sing in whatever key is "there."  

The baritone guitar deal really is interesting.  It'll make for some good YT time this week!  Thanks for bringing it up @BOWIE.

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 18, 2022, 11:00:39 PM
Wow, this thread got lively!  Nice!  Yes, I keep my guitar tuned down a whole step at all times (well, not today when I absolutely fell in love with DADGAD, but that's a different thread).  So yes, I'd have to establish the 432 pitch and then go down a full step.  I'm genuinely curious.

My Snark has no pitch-shifting feature on the back. I'll either have to get another tuner or tune off YT till I get one.

 I don't see how this would affect singing anymore than capo usage would?  Since one just has to sing in whatever key is "there."  

The baritone guitar deal really is interesting.  It'll make for some good YT time this week!  Thanks for bringing it up @BOWIE.

Singing is largely muscle memory. You can certainly adjust your pitch to what you're hearing, but muscle memory is a strong thing that fills a bigger role in our lives than most people realize. When you're using a capo, everything you sing is still relevant to standard pitch and you have a muscle memory for all the notes in standard. When you shift that slightly, you're completely relying on your ear and may actually be fighting against muscle memory.

Think of living in a house with stairs your whole life. You can probably walk up them in the dark because your muscle memory knows how far apart they are. Move to a house where the stairs are taller and longer, and you won't be able to just go up them so effortlessly at first.

Quote from: B0WIE on December 19, 2022, 08:43:18 AM
Singing is largely muscle memory. You can certainly adjust your pitch to what you're hearing, but muscle memory is a strong thing that fills a bigger role in our lives than most people realize. When you're using a capo, everything you sing is still relevant to standard pitch and you have a muscle memory for all the notes in standard. When you shift that slightly, you're completely relying on your ear and may actually be fighting against muscle memory.

Think of living in a house with stairs your whole life. You can probably walk up them in the dark because your muscle memory knows how far apart they are. Move to a house where the stairs are taller and longer, and you won't be able to just go up them so effortlessly at first.

That analogy makes sense.  I'll have to try it out and see how it works.  For now I'm stuck on DADGAD. 

Quote from: B0WIE on December 19, 2022, 08:43:18 AM
Singing is largely muscle memory. You can certainly adjust your pitch to what you're hearing, but muscle memory is a strong thing that fills a bigger role in our lives than most people realize. When you're using a capo, everything you sing is still relevant to standard pitch and you have a muscle memory for all the notes in standard. When you shift that slightly, you're completely relying on your ear and may actually be fighting against muscle memory.

Think of living in a house with stairs your whole life. You can probably walk up them in the dark because your muscle memory knows how far apart they are. Move to a house where the stairs are taller and longer, and you won't be able to just go up them so effortlessly at first.

In North Africa, since ancient times, homes were built such that livestock (sheep, goats) were housed below on the ground floor and the family lived above. The stairs were constructed very irregularly, each of varying height so that during an invasion the attackers couldn't quickly and easily charge up the stairs.

Quote from: Queequeg on December 19, 2022, 11:16:42 AM
In North Africa, since ancient times, homes were built such that livestock (sheep, goats) were housed below on the ground floor and the family lived above. The stairs were constructed very irregularly, each of varying height so that during an invasion the attackers couldn't quickly and easily charge up the stairs.

That's fascinating. I love fun facts about anthropology. Thanks for sharing that.

Thought I'd post an update and some thoughts on everything that has come up in this thread thus far. 

BOWIE made mention of a baritone guitar, which up till this point had been thoroughly off my radar.  I don't even think I realized there were such things as baritone acoustic guitars, but only electrics.  Tumbling down that rabbit hole made for some really fun YouTube/online research.  The 8-string varieties are really nice! It's like having a mixture between a baritone and a 12-string guitar.  I found a standard baritone made by Ibanez on my local Craig's List and went back and forth with the guy.  I was tempted to buy it for a mere $450, but buying myself something like that at Christmas time just doesn't feel right.  And after thinking it over for several days, my parsimony (which is never far from my heart) got the better of me and I decided to pass on it.  I do really love the idea of a baritone, but I can see it being an instrument that's tucked away and rarely gets played.  I have a really nice Collings mandolin that's been tucked away under a chaise lounge pretty much all year.  I got it out yesterday and the case was covered in dust.  Same goes for my electric guitar (a really nice Jackson model).   These wonderful instruments aren't seeing the play-time they deserve, so me adding another instrument (and one I'd have to spent time learning to play) doesn't make any sense.  The lack of attention my mandolin and electric get are a testament to how much I love my Larrivee, though! 

As for tuning to 432 from 440...  I ended up finding a D'Addario micro clip-on tuner in my electric guitar case.  It has the ability to adjust pitch, so I dropped it down to 432 and tuned my Larrivee to it; then I tuned down a full step from there, since a full step down is my normal thing.  The bottom line for me is that this is my new tuning that I'll be keeping.  I've never had my guitar *FEEL* better than it does in this tuning.  It takes just a tad bit of slack off the strings and really makes it easy to play (easier than it already is tuned down a whole step).  The sound is also really amazing to my ear.  There is this lower, lush aspect of that pitch, like everything just *breathes* a bit more freely. 

I sat around yesterday and sang a bunch of songs in this new tuning.  It was the same as singing in any other key or capo'd position to me.  Maybe my ear/voice is just trained to latch on to whatever key is there, but I had absolutely no issue just singing.  And all the songs were easier to sing with the slightly lower pitch. 

I can't even remember the last time I played guitar with someone else, so an odd tuning isn't an issue for me.  But, yeah, if I were to go and play in a group, etc, I'd need to use standard tuning.  I only have my one acoustic guitar, but I know several of you have a lot of guitars (or at least more than one).  I recommend putting one in this tuning and messing around with it.

Deep state/Nazi/Illuminati conspiracies aside ( :arrow), it's a great and useful tuning that could add another texture/color to your guitar-life. 

Speaking of having more than one guitar... I had so much fun with DADGAD the last couple weeks, I'm thinking seriously of getting a guitar to keep in that tuning.  Going back and forth on my Larrivee is a pain.  Knowing me, I probably won't do it, but it will be fun toying with the idea.  I think something like a Big Baby Taylor would be fun to have for this purpose.  You can get them used for a song, and they are really great little guitars on their own.  If I come across one for $200-$300 on my local CL, I might pull the trigger.  We shall see. 

My telecaster and amp sit unused, and it gives me guilt. I find that although I love the idea of electric guitar, it's a bit boring playing it alone. I'm also very lazy, and I can't be bothered with foot switches and tone knobs.  :arrow

Quote from: StringPicker6 on December 24, 2022, 10:01:48 AM
My telecaster and amp sit unused, and it gives me guilt. I find that although I love the idea of electric guitar, it's a bit boring playing it alone. I'm also very lazy, and I can't be bothered with foot switches and tone knobs.  :arrow

I'm pretty much the same.  After I run through all the licks and riffs I know, it gets boring.  Plus electric guitar playing is a never-ending tone-quest it seems.  With the acoustic, one just picks it up and plays.  It's still worth having an electric around, though. 

I did recently buy a little headphone amp from fender (can't recall its model name).  It's about the size of a cigarette lighter, plugs into your guitar, and then you plug in your headphones into it. Really fun little toy. I might sell my amp and just stick with that. Also, my wife can't be annoyed when I'm using headphones.  :nana_guitar

Quote from: StringPicker6 on December 24, 2022, 10:58:45 PM
I did recently buy a little headphone amp from fender (can't recall its model name).  It's about the size of a cigarette lighter, plugs into your guitar, and then you plug in your headphones into it. Really fun little toy. I might sell my amp and just stick with that. Also, my wife can't be annoyed when I'm using headphones.  :nana_guitar

I had one of those from Vox for a while and it was great fun.  I usually use my headphones plugged into my Boss Katana so I don't drive the house nuts as I play pretty much the entire Def Leppard Hysteria album. 

(Tuning a 1/2 step down from A440 is actually 415.305 Hz.)
 Much has been written about A432.
I haven't investigated this enough to have an opinion one way or the other.
For example:
According to music theory, A=432 Hz is mathematically consistent with the universe. This is known as Verdi's 'A' – named after Giuseppe Verdi, a famous Italian composer. Music tuned to 432 Hz is softer and brighter, and is said to provide greater clarity and is easier on the ears.

And this:
Playing 432 Hz music for 15 to 20 min before sleeping induces sleep and increases deep sleep phase.

And this:
What's so special about 432 Hz you might ask? Well, according to some music theorists, it's the frequency at which the universe vibrates. Listening to a sound at 432 Hz is especially pleasing to the ear, and said to reduce stress and promote emotional stability by putting you in sync with the "heartbeat of the Earth."

YMMV  :smile:

Quote from: Queequeg on May 18, 2023, 01:45:01 PM(Tuning a 1/2 step down from A440 is actually 415.305 Hz.)
 Much has been written about A432.
I haven't investigated this enough to have an opinion one way or the other.
For example:
According to music theory, A=432 Hz is mathematically consistent with the universe. This is known as Verdi's 'A' – named after Giuseppe Verdi, a famous Italian composer. Music tuned to 432 Hz is softer and brighter, and is said to provide greater clarity and is easier on the ears.

And this:
Playing 432 Hz music for 15 to 20 min before sleeping induces sleep and increases deep sleep phase.

And this:
What's so special about 432 Hz you might ask? Well, according to some music theorists, it's the frequency at which the universe vibrates. Listening to a sound at 432 Hz is especially pleasing to the ear, and said to reduce stress and promote emotional stability by putting you in sync with the "heartbeat of the Earth."

YMMV  :smile:

I hear you.  I've got friends that are pretty heavy into the red pill movement and talk about this stuff sometimes.  I try not to dismiss arguments offhandedly, especially if I have never thought about it or have never researched, but it does seem like with all these types of things there is no end to the rabbit holes.  I just tend to not spend much time (read: any) on these things. 

I tried out this tuning out of curiosity and really do like it, so I'll likely stay with it.  I do some guitar tutorials on YT from time to time and have to retune to 440.  That's a bit of a pain but I don't do it often. 

If you ever want to experiment with the alleged "benefits" of 432, there are lots of great YouTube vids out there featuring this music.  Here is one I like a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaxF95wrSqE&list=PLbIJ1DWcC5PON1mAWfDvV0qOdRxs1mB9w&index=17

Another good one I like, but on electric guitar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaUl_gWRhuQ&list=PLbIJ1DWcC5PON1mAWfDvV0qOdRxs1mB9w&index=18

Quote from: Silence Dogood on May 20, 2023, 09:46:13 AMI hear you.  I've got friends that are pretty heavy into the red pill movement and talk about this stuff sometimes.  I try not to dismiss arguments offhandedly, especially if I have never thought about it or have never researched, but it does seem like with all these types of things there is no end to the rabbit holes.  I just tend to not spend much time (read: any) on these things. 

I tried out this tuning out of curiosity and really do like it, so I'll likely stay with it.  I do some guitar tutorials on YT from time to time and have to retune to 440.  That's a bit of a pain but I don't do it often. 

If you ever want to experiment with the alleged "benefits" of 432, there are lots of great YouTube vids out there featuring this music.  Here is one I like a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaxF95wrSqE&list=PLbIJ1DWcC5PON1mAWfDvV0qOdRxs1mB9w&index=17

Another good one I like, but on electric guitar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaUl_gWRhuQ&list=PLbIJ1DWcC5PON1mAWfDvV0qOdRxs1mB9w&index=18

(I had to look up "red pill" as I never heard of it.)
I do read my share of science, and more specifically physics/astrophysics books and had never run across anything before as to the universe vibrating at 432Hz. There is of course, a certain cosmic microwave background radiation with a frequency of approximately 160GHz at the far reaches of our universe.
The resonant frequency of human beings is around 12Hz according to pubmed; women slightly faster than men.

As for our Planet Earth, I refer to wikipedia and the Schumann Resonances (SR) "a set of spectrum peaks in the extremely low frequency (ELF) portion of the Earth's electromagnetic field spectrum. Schumann resonances are global electromagnetic resonances, generated and excited by lightning discharges in the cavity formed by the Earth's surface and the ionosphere.[1]

Description
The global electromagnetic resonance phenomenon is named after physicist Winfried Otto Schumann who predicted it mathematically in 1952. Schumann resonances are the principal background in the part of the electromagnetic spectrum[2] from 3 Hz through 60 Hz,[3] and appear as distinct peaks at extremely low frequencies (ELF) around 7.83 Hz (fundamental), 14.3, 20.8, 27.3, and 33.8 Hz.[4]"

Far lower than the 423Hz in our discussion, so while we may respond better (or some people prefer A432 to A440) I'm inclined to dismiss the rest as something akin to metaphysics until further or better data. Could be something to it but I remain unconvinced.

So I agree- try it out. No harm in that. There is certainly nothing sacred about A440. I think it was the result of a compromise between varying tuning systems, first recommended in the 1830s and codified in the 1950s and again in the 1970s.
So while maybe it's not a law of nature...
to paraphrase the old song, if it's your thing, do what you want to do.  :smile:

Quote from: Queequeg on May 21, 2023, 11:56:44 AM(I had to look up "red pill" as I never heard of it.)
I do read my share of science, and more specifically physics/astrophysics books and had never run across anything before as to the universe vibrating at 432Hz. There is of course, a certain cosmic microwave background radiation with a frequency of approximately 160GHz at the far reaches of our universe.
The resonant frequency of human beings is around 12Hz according to pubmed; women slightly faster than men.

As for our Planet Earth, I refer to wikipedia and the Schumann Resonances (SR) "a set of spectrum peaks in the extremely low frequency (ELF) portion of the Earth's electromagnetic field spectrum. Schumann resonances are global electromagnetic resonances, generated and excited by lightning discharges in the cavity formed by the Earth's surface and the ionosphere.[1]

Description
The global electromagnetic resonance phenomenon is named after physicist Winfried Otto Schumann who predicted it mathematically in 1952. Schumann resonances are the principal background in the part of the electromagnetic spectrum[2] from 3 Hz through 60 Hz,[3] and appear as distinct peaks at extremely low frequencies (ELF) around 7.83 Hz (fundamental), 14.3, 20.8, 27.3, and 33.8 Hz.[4]"

Far lower than the 423Hz in our discussion, so while we may respond better (or some people prefer A432 to A440) I'm inclined to dismiss the rest as something akin to metaphysics until further or better data. Could be something to it but I remain unconvinced.

So I agree- try it out. No harm in that. There is certainly nothing sacred about A440. I think it was the result of a compromise between varying tuning systems, first recommended in the 1830s and codified in the 1950s and again in the 1970s.
So while maybe it's not a law of nature...
to paraphrase the old song, if it's your thing, do what you want to do.  :smile:

Sorry about that.  I suppose since I'm so closely wedded to red pill thinking via my friends that I assumed the term was ubiquitous.  There is a lot of male-specific red pill thinking, but I'm more referring to the conspiratorial mindset in general.  I get weary of it all because everything ends up being a part of it.  Even guitar playing with the 432 thing. 

Quote from: Queequeg on May 18, 2023, 01:45:01 PM(Tuning a 1/2 step down from A440 is actually 415.305 Hz.)
 Much has been written about A432.
I haven't investigated this enough to have an opinion one way or the other.
For example:
According to music theory, A=432 Hz is mathematically consistent with the universe. This is known as Verdi's 'A' – named after Giuseppe Verdi, a famous Italian composer. Music tuned to 432 Hz is softer and brighter, and is said to provide greater clarity and is easier on the ears.

And this:
Playing 432 Hz music for 15 to 20 min before sleeping induces sleep and increases deep sleep phase.

And this:
What's so special about 432 Hz you might ask? Well, according to some music theorists, it's the frequency at which the universe vibrates. Listening to a sound at 432 Hz is especially pleasing to the ear, and said to reduce stress and promote emotional stability by putting you in sync with the "heartbeat of the Earth."

YMMV  :smile:

"They" say lots of stuff. I've tried this tuning option (and many more) and didn't really notice any cosmic effects. I did notice that I wasn't in tune with anyone if I wanted to play with others.

Quote from: ducktrapper on May 22, 2023, 08:46:05 PM"They" say lots of stuff. I've tried this tuning option (and many more) and didn't really notice any cosmic effects. I did notice that I wasn't in tune with anyone if I wanted to play with others.

The main thing I've noticed is that I enjoy singing a lot more in the 432 range.  It gives me just a tad bit more breathing room and seems to be less restrictive.  It has been fun experimenting with it anyway.  But as you say, pretty much a deal-breaker if you're going to play with others.  I can't even recall the last time I played guitar with someone else.  I miss it for sure. 

Quote from: ducktrapper on May 22, 2023, 08:46:05 PM"They" say lots of stuff.

Yeah. I have never read or heard from (what I consider to be) any reliable source that the greater universe or Planet Earth resonates at 432 Hz.

Quote from: Silence Dogood on May 27, 2023, 08:32:30 AMThe main thing I've noticed is that I enjoy singing a lot more in the 432 range.  It gives me just a tad bit more breathing room and seems to be less restrictive.  It has been fun experimenting with it anyway.  But as you say, pretty much a deal-breaker if you're going to play with others.  I can't even recall the last time I played guitar with someone else.  I miss it for sure.

I generally keep a guitar tuned down a half or even a whole tone for that purpose. I go to jams on a regular basis but, with that, a capo will allow you to play nicely with others. It only slightly confuses them. LOL 

Quote from: Queequeg on May 27, 2023, 11:44:42 AMYeah. I have never read or heard from (what I consider to be) any reliable source that the greater universe or Planet Earth resonates at 432 Hz.

And so what if it does? I march to my own tune and sing to my own drummer. :)

Quote from: ducktrapper on May 27, 2023, 02:55:35 PMAnd so what if it does? I march to my own tune and sing to my own drummer. :)

Yeah, so what if it does?
But it doesn't.
So where do people get this poppycock?

Quote from: Queequeg on May 28, 2023, 11:27:27 AMYeah, so what if it does?
But it doesn't.
So where do people get this poppycock?

From the poppycock store? See my thread about dandelions. Apparently, people will believe the darnedest things with no evidence at all. I'm sure I'm guilty of believing some sort of nonsense. I just don't know what. :D

I have also never heard about earth and the universe resonating at 432 Hz, but if that's true, does that mean that Uranus also resonates at 432 Hz?   :humour:  :nana_guitar

I actually heard that A 440 was the frequency of the OM sound that the universe makes but either way we're defining the frequency of the note we call A. Whether it's 440 or 432 what about all the other notes? Are we musical monks who chant OM to that note whatever it may be? Do we only play one note songs or only in keys that have an A in the scale. I'm not sure I get the point. I've certainly noticed no discord in the universe or even in my room when I don't tune that way.

Quote from: ducktrapper on May 29, 2023, 02:41:25 PMI actually heard that A 440 was the frequency of the OM sound that the universe makes

:wave  :wave  :cheers
And where did you hear that?
Just curious.
And is the "OM" sound from a chant?
Just curious.
Mike

When I chant, I like to say "ORCHESTRAAAAA MOOOODELLLLL"...  :roll

Quote from: mike in lytle on May 29, 2023, 10:45:56 PM:wave  :wave  :cheers
And where did you hear that?
Just curious.
And is the "OM" sound from a chant?
Just curious.
Mike

I used to be a bit of a Buddhist in my misbegotten youth. I guess I read it somewhere in the literature. In meditation, if you have silence and listen very closely, OM is apparently the sound of the universe vibrating and "the word" in the beginning. Which is why Buddhists chant Om Mani Padme Hum and the like. Of course, when I look at clouds, I always see dogs running across the sky.

You can go to Youtube and hear many of these chants. The Tibetan ones can be truly strange.

Quote from: StringPicker6 on May 30, 2023, 06:09:09 AMWhen I chant, I like to say "ORCHESTRAAAAA MOOOODELLLLL"...  :roll

I was waiting for that! :D

Ok, I've been using the 432 pitch/tuning/thing for a while.  I can't tell if it's helped me (e.g. healed me, made me more sane, etc), but I can say it's not harmed me.  I enjoy the lush and more mellow tone, and a bit less tension is always a plus for me.  I think I like it. 

Quote from: Silence Dogood on May 30, 2023, 01:34:38 PMOk, I've been using the 432 pitch/tuning/thing for a while.  I can't tell if it's helped me (e.g. healed me, made me more sane, etc), but I can say it's not harmed me.  I enjoy the lush and more mellow tone, and a bit less tension is always a plus for me.  I think I like it.

Cool. Any tuning works fine if you're not playing with others.

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 18, 2022, 12:00:45 PMI've been watching some YT videos on this and have listened to some of the music tuned to this lower pitch.  I'm not interested in the conspiracies that go along with the topic, but the sound is very intriguing.  I'm thinking of trying it out soon.  Have any of you messed around with this 432 tuning?

I've performed mostly 1/2 step down since my teens, which isn't far off from 432Hz. 432Hz sounds and feels natural to me and works great with my voice. Where it becomes challenging is learning new songs from records, vids, etc. and playing along with others.

I'm looking to put together a group soon and hope they'll be up for exploring 432Hz.

Quote from: StringPicker6 on December 24, 2022, 10:01:48 AMMy telecaster and amp sit unused, and it gives me guilt. I find that although I love the idea of electric guitar, it's a bit boring playing it alone. I'm also very lazy, and I can't be bothered with foot switches and tone knobs.  :arrow

Put an album on and turn it up. Play along. Band in a box?

Quote from: CelticDave on July 08, 2023, 09:49:20 PMI've performed mostly 1/2 step down since my teens, which isn't far off from 432Hz. 432Hz sounds and feels natural to me and works great with my voice. Where it becomes challenging is learning new songs from records, vids, etc. and playing along with others.

I'm looking to put together a group soon and hope they'll be up for exploring 432Hz.

Cool.

I started this thread back in Dec and have been using 432 Hz since then pretty much exclusively.  I love it and think my guitar sounds better than ever.  I begin by tuning down a full step while in 440, and then going down to 432.  I'd actually like to tune down another half step but can tell I'll need a trip to the luthier for some setup work if that is to happen.  Lower tunings are just wonderful and open up so many more tonal varieties in a good acoustic guitar.  I'm to the point now that when I hear guitars in standard tuning, they sound stifled and restricted.  Everything is just too tight and sounds like it needs to settle down and breathe a bit. 

As you pointed out, learning songs on recordings and YT, etc, is a pain in this tuning, and it takes a bit more work. 

Another thing you pointed out was singing.  432 has taken my singing to another level.  It's just so much easier and more enjoyable in the slightly lower pitch. 

Putting together a group that was playing in that tuning would be really cool. 

Thias

Quote from: Silence Dogood on July 09, 2023, 08:27:44 AMCool.

I started this thread back in Dec and have been using 432 Hz since then pretty much exclusively.  I love it and think my guitar sounds better than ever.  I begin by tuning down a full step while in 440, and then going down to 432.  I'd actually like to tune down another half step but can tell I'll need a trip to the luthier for some setup work if that is to happen.  Lower tunings are just wonderful and open up so many more tonal varieties in a good acoustic guitar.  I'm to the point now that when I hear guitars in standard tuning, they sound stifled and restricted.  Everything is just too tight and sounds like it needs to settle down and breathe a bit. 

As you pointed out, learning songs on recordings and YT, etc, is a pain in this tuning, and it takes a bit more work. 

Another thing you pointed out was singing.  432 has taken my singing to another level.  It's just so much easier and more enjoyable in the slightly lower pitch. 

Putting together a group that was playing in that tuning would be really cool. 

This is why I own so many guitars. You can do different things with them and still have one that plays well with others without a fuss. They are tools, after all.

It's weird because I actually had my LSV tuned in 432 and a half step down.  I prefer it that way, (but playing in church requires the usual standard 440 when I'm playing with others, especially the piano and flute!) But it drives me absolutely crazy on my classical guitar because it sounds unbearably flat to my near-perfect pitch ear!

Quote from: Paraclete on August 01, 2023, 11:36:01 PMIt's weird because I actually had my LSV tuned in 432 and a half step down.  I prefer it that way, (but playing in church requires the usual standard 440 when I'm playing with others, especially the piano and flute!) But it drives me absolutely crazy on my classical guitar because it sounds unbearably flat to my near-perfect pitch ear!

Which drives you nuts on the classical: 440 or 432?  Your post is a bit confusing.  I'd love to hear more about your experiences. 

Quote from: Silence Dogood on August 02, 2023, 06:27:01 AMWhich drives you nuts on the classical: 440 or 432?  Your post is a bit confusing.  I'd love to hear more about your experiences. 

432.  My sense of pitch is really good, probably perfect pitch territory.  So I am trained to 440 as a classical violinist.  432 is painfully flat!

Here is an update on all this 432 stuff.  Each year I take my guitar to a weekend-long Xmas party some friends put on.  My wife and sis-in-law always sing carols while I accompany them on guitar. We recently got together to go through the Xmas songs and my guitar was in 432.  It threw off their usual performance of the songs and they kept wondering what was going on. They knew something was off but they couldn't put a finger on it. I told them I was in a different tuning/pitch.  I then went back to 440 and it fixed everything.  Very strange!

That's fascinating! I feel like I have a bad ear since I have never even paid attention to slight tuning variations

I am a bit of a tuning fanatic but I believe relative pitch is more important than perfect pitch. As long as the guitar is in tune with itself and those who you are playing with, in most cases, it will sound just fine. Of course, there are those who say that because of the intrinsic nature of the guitar, it is never truly in tune. I'm not that picky.  :laughin:

Quote from: Silence Dogood on November 19, 2023, 08:26:39 AMHere is an update on all this 432 stuff.  Each year I take my guitar to a weekend-long Xmas party some friends put on.  My wife and sis-in-law always sing carols while I accompany them on guitar. We recently got together to go through the Xmas songs and my guitar was in 432.  It threw off their usual performance of the songs and they kept wondering what was going on. They knew something was off but they couldn't put a finger on it. I told them I was in a different tuning/pitch.  I then went back to 440 and it fixed everything.  Very strange!

Not sure what you meant by "strange". When a guitar is that flat it's usually pretty obvious something is off.

Like Duck said, it's all about relative pitch. Probably sounds normal on your own but will be terrible when blended with 440.

Quote from: B0WIE on November 19, 2023, 12:05:50 PMNot sure what you meant by "strange". When a guitar is that flat it's usually pretty obvious something is off.

Like Duck said, it's all about relative pitch. Probably sounds normal on your own but will be terrible when blended with 440.

I thought it was strange that it threw off their vocals so much.  They are both great singers and I figured they'd just naturally latch onto the pitch of the guitar, but it changed the way they sing together.  The best way I can describe it is that it took some of the "shimmer" off their harmonies.  I really like the lower pitch but I guess it doesn't work for everything. 

The Xmas party is in a couple weeks and I'll use 440 for it.  It was a nice change putting it back in 440 for me as well.  It seems to bring back a slight sparkle that's missing in 432.  All very interesting stuff (to me). 

Quote from: Silence Dogood on November 19, 2023, 12:29:38 PMI thought it was strange that it threw off their vocals so much.  They are both great singers and I figured they'd just naturally latch onto the pitch of the guitar, but it changed the way they sing together.  The best way I can describe it is that it took some of the "shimmer" off their harmonies.  I really like the lower pitch but I guess it doesn't work for everything. 

The Xmas party is in a couple weeks and I'll use 440 for it.  It was a nice change putting it back in 440 for me as well.  It seems to bring back a slight sparkle that's missing in 432.  All very interesting stuff (to me). 

Well, of course, you get used to singing in a certain key and, if not tuned to concert pitch, the key has changed. That can throw you off, especially harmonies. 

Muscle memory. It's linked to everything we do with our bodies. Singing particularly relies on it. This is why I dislike venturing away from 440.

I think I'm finding that if I tune down a half step to sing certain songs, when I tune back up to concert pitch, it has helped me in that I can hit notes more easily now a half step higher. Or is that all in my head?

Quote from: ducktrapper on November 20, 2023, 09:53:26 AMI think I'm finding that if I tune down a half step to sing certain songs, when I tune back up to concert pitch, it has helped me in that I can hit notes more easily now a half step higher. Or is that all in my head?

That absolutely happens.  It helps to stretch and exercise your vox. 

Quote from: Silence Dogood on November 20, 2023, 09:56:47 AMThat absolutely happens.  It helps to stretch and exercise your vox. 

True but I wonder if it's also an ear thing. You can't hear the notes, or especially the intervals, correctly if you can't sing it correctly. Intervals being as important as the notes, that is. Once you're singing the intervals correctly, it becomes easier to raise the pitch and still do it?

Quote from: ducktrapper on November 20, 2023, 09:53:26 AMI think I'm finding that if I tune down a half step to sing certain songs, when I tune back up to concert pitch, it has helped me in that I can hit notes more easily now a half step higher. Or is that all in my head?

Range is such a weird, psychological thing. If I hear a singer straining and I try to sing that song, I can't stop myself from straining while that song is playing.

I do similar tricks like you do. I'll even go down an octave so my throat gets big and relaxed, then go back up and try to maintain that relaxed state, and it helps a lot.

My vocal coaches used to have me replace the vowels with ones that are easier to sing, like "Ah". Then, go back and sing it correctly after I've hit all the notes with the easy vowels. Or, they would run a scale and say, "You just went higher than that note you are having trouble with" and leaping that psychological hurdle was all I needed.

Quote from: B0WIE on November 20, 2023, 12:27:15 PMRange is such a weird, psychological thing. If I hear a singer straining and I try to sing that song, I can't stop myself from straining while that song is playing.

I do similar tricks like you do. I'll even go down an octave so my throat gets big and relaxed, then go back up and try to maintain that relaxed state, and it helps a lot.

My vocal coaches used to have me replace the vowels with ones that are easier to sing, like "Ah". Then, go back and sing it correctly after I've hit all the notes with the easy vowels. Or, they would run a scale and say, "You just went higher than that note you are having trouble with" and leaping that psychological hurdle was all I needed.

All good advice. My real problem, as my wife likes to point out, I'm too big a Dylan fan and, according to her, slip into his style too readily and way too often. Say it ain't so! I don't imitate his voice but as with with many, many singers, his phrasing is irresistible. How does it feeeel?  :laughin: