Interesting overview of humidiy in relation to guitars (with asides into torrefication and such)

The Ultimate Humidty Discussion - Alvarez (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYzJb3w-X54)


absolute vs relative humidity (https://www.zehnderamerica.com/absolute-vs-relative-humidity-whats-the-difference/)

After many years of using all different humidification systems - l wound up with one of these - it is simply the best I've ever used:

Venta air-wash humidifier (https://www.venta-air.com/en_us/)

I enjoy these Alvarez discussions on various topics. I humidify my guitar room using a small humidifier and DI water.

The main thing I've learned after endless hours of study and observation (including getting a German hair hygrometer and such eccentricities) is that cracks are less about the general humidity and more about rapid changes in humidity. We all know people who have kept guitars in dry climates with no issue. And, we've also probably heard stories of a pampered guitar cracking from a brief swing in rh. Wood does not like to contract quickly.

I keep my guitar room slightly on the dry side (40 to 45% @ 72 to 78*) because I like the tone. Feels crisp and responsive compared to say 55%. This range also just feels better on my skin.

I have a dual Venta, which is ok, but I feel they are overhyped. Not particularly quiet, cleaning is a hassle, and the fluid is expensive. But, there are no filters so I've kept it. Mine has been running 4 years, no problem.
Anyone who wants a more affordable room humidifier should look at Vornado.

Quote from: B0WIE on November 04, 2022, 01:58:48 PMI keep my guitar room slightly on the dry side (40 to 45% @ 72 to 78*) because I like the tone. Feels crisp and responsive compared to say 55%. This range also just feels better on my skin.

I have a dual Venta, which is ok, but I feel they are overhyped. Not particularly quiet, cleaning is a hassle, and the fluid is expensive. But, there are no filters so I've kept it. Mine has been running 4 years, no problem.
Anyone who wants a more affordable room humidifier should look at Vornado.

The 40-45% range is my preference too.

Discovered Venta while looking for a piano humidifier. Came across a recommendation for the Venta on the Bosendorfer site.

Using the "LW25 Original", I top it up each day and rinse it out every ten days to two weeks. I used the fancy conditioners for the first round but don't bother any more and I haven't had any issues. Zero dust, no filters to change or go moldy. It's noticeable on the highest fan setting but quite quiet on the lowest speed, which seems to be adequate for a 300 sq foot area.

I'll have to go look at the Vornados.

I'm a humidity novice, as I keep my Larrivees in their cases with d'addario humidipacks. Does anyone have opinions on the outside temperature where guitars are kept? I'm asking because i've been keeping my guitars in my somewhat finished basement during the summer which stays in the 70s, but now that winter is here it can get down to around 67°, which is a little chilly. I'm worried that I may need to bring them upstairs. Any thoughts or concerns?

Quote from: StringPicker6 on December 13, 2022, 10:02:27 PM
I'm a humidity novice, as I keep my Larrivees in their cases with d'addario humidipacks. Does anyone have opinions on the outside temperature where guitars are kept? I'm asking because i've been keeping my guitars in my somewhat finished basement during the summer which stays in the 70s, but now that winter is here it can get down to around 67°, which is a little chilly. I'm worried that I may need to bring them upstairs. Any thoughts or concerns?

The way I understand it...  humidity matters and rapid (or extreme, or quick) temperature changes matter.  Humidity takes a long time to take effect.  A guitar that has been properly humidified (40-60% relative humidity) will take days to be affected by a radical change in humidity.  But, a radical change in temperature is more immediate.  By radical, I mean 30f to 90f without time to acclimate.  Wood takes a LOOOOONG time to absorb or lose moisture. 

Ed

Ed is correct. Though, I'd say be very careful of temp swings. I've heard of people taking their guitar outside to photograph for sale, and the quick shift caused a crack. It doesn't take much of a change as speed is the killer here.

Your basement temp sounds fine, so long as the RH is stable and adequate. But, I wouldn't take one up into a warm room and start picking unless you leave the case opened an inch and let them acclimate for a half hour. If they're instruments you use regularly, I'd play them in the room you store them in. The bonus of that is that they are more likely to stay in tune while you play them.

All excellent advice, thank you!  :thumb

I've never humidified a guitar in 30 years of playing.  Anyone else took this approach?

I suppose where you live would determine if you can pull that off? I'm on the US East coast, so lots of temperature and humidity swings.

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 15, 2022, 06:35:23 AM
I've never humidified a guitar in 30 years of playing.  Anyone else took this approach?

Sure!
Lots of unfortunate folks with busted up guitars.
:bgrin:
As stringpicker6 says- depends where you live.

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 15, 2022, 06:35:23 AM
I've never humidified a guitar in 30 years of playing.  Anyone else took this approach?

For the first 30 years that I played, I didn't either. I grew up with crappy guitars.
Then I finished the ruination of a 1971 Martin D-12-28 which had been partially ruined by the previous owner.
Began the ruination of a perfectly good 1976 Martin HD-28.
Huge losses moneywise.
Believe me, I got religion.
Mike

I understand the horror stories but I've either been lucky or live in an area where it's not necessary. 

Quote from: Silence Dogood on December 15, 2022, 12:28:23 PM
I understand the horror stories but I've either been lucky or live in an area where it's not necessary. 

Not horror stories, just personal experience. I am not discounting your own personal experience.
The "area" where you live has less to do with it than the "house" you live in.
Where you live, humidity can sometimes drop in the summer to levels not measurable, but usually for not more than a few days.
In the winter, humidity can also drop way low, but you have a house full of family. Humans are great humidifiers, and you don't take your guitar out of the house much.
We are only a few hundred miles apart, I probably "take action" around 20 days a year. I monitor all year long.
Mike

Quote from: mike in lytle on December 15, 2022, 12:46:53 PM
Not horror stories, just personal experience. I am not discounting your own personal experience.
The "area" where you live has less to do with it than the "house" you live in.
Where you live, humidity can sometimes drop in the summer to levels not measurable, but usually for not more than a few days.
In the winter, humidity can also drop way low, but you have a house full of family. Humans are great humidifiers, and you don't take your guitar out of the house much.
We are only a few hundred miles apart, I probably "take action" around 20 days a year. I monitor all year long.
Mike

Makes sense.  There are six in my family and one dog.  And you are correct, I hardly ever take my guitar out of the house.  I keep it in the case when it's not being played, though for many years I used to leave it out on a stand.

I interested my father in law's 60's Gibson, which has humidity cracks. He didn't know humidifying was a thing.

I never did, never thought I had a problem, but when I learned how to look for them, I discovered hairline neck joint cracks in the tops of my 2 acoustics at the time.

I think the best practice is to keep them in the right range. You might be ok without. But, it's a matter of whether you want to risk it. With modern A/C, it's a risk in most homes.

Quote from: B0WIE on December 15, 2022, 03:55:24 PM
I interested my father in law's 60's Gibson, which has humidity cracks. He didn't know humidifying was a thing.
I never did, never thought I had a problem, but when I learned how to look for them, I discovered hairline neck joint cracks in the tops of my 2 acoustics at the time.
I think the best practice is to keep them in the right range. You might be ok without. But, it's a matter of whether you want to risk it. With modern A/C, it's a risk in most homes.

Modern AC (central air) isn't a risk, it is a blessing (unless I miss your point).
Depends on where you live. Modern AC makes it easier to be in the range, as well as our room humidifiers in the winter.
And with modern measuring instruments, available cheap.
Mike

I live in NW PA and ironically, i turned my 1 gallon Levoit room humidifier on for the first time this season since the relative humidity dropped below 40%.

I have it set for 50% and it's already back up to 45% with a room temperature of 68 degrees. This is the best humidifier I've ever used in my 12 x 15 guitar room and I generally fill it every 2-3 days depending on the outside air temperature. Today it was 40 degrees, windy and drizzling most of the day and evening. All of my guitars stay in their cases when not being played but I generally have two on their stands during the day.

I do use case humidifiers when traveling with 1 or 2 guitars in the car.

Quote from: mike in lytle on December 15, 2022, 09:59:45 PM
Modern AC (central air) isn't a risk, it is a blessing (unless I miss your point).
Depends on where you live. Modern AC makes it easier to be in the range, as well as our room humidifiers in the winter.
And with modern measuring instruments, available cheap.
Mike

?
The most dangerous times of year for acoustic guitars are when the cooling and heating kick in. They remove moisture from the air. Definitely does not help keep instruments in a stable or desirable RH range, for most of N America at least.

I also didn't call modern AC a risk. I said WITH modern AC, it's a risk not to look after your humidity.

Quote from: B0WIE on December 16, 2022, 12:00:39 AM
?
The most dangerous times of year for acoustic guitars are when the cooling and heating kick in. They remove moisture from the air. Definitely does not help keep instruments in a stable or desirable RH range, for most of N America at least.

I also didn't call modern AC a risk. I said WITH modern AC, it's a risk not to look after your humidity.

Pretty sure I will misunderstand you in the future as well, meanwhile the conversation does not get boring!
Mike

Quote from: B0WIE on December 16, 2022, 12:00:39 AM
?
The most dangerous times of year for acoustic guitars are when the cooling and heating kick in. They remove moisture from the air. Definitely does not help keep instruments in a stable or desirable RH range, for most of N America at least.

I also didn't call modern AC a risk. I said WITH modern AC, it's a risk not to look after your humidity.

The AC, I agree with.  I struggle trying to understand the heat part of the problem though.  Forced air (heat and AC) tends to remove moisture from the air.... I get that.  But, I have steam radiators, and it still gets dry as heck. 

Ed

Ed

In younger days, 1970s and 80s for me, nobody ever talked about humidity with instruments.  But, lots of folks had instruments with cracks. It was the mid 90s when I got interested in acoustic (it had always been a guitar I could play where there wasn't an amp before that).  It seems to me, it was Taylor who came out with their Tech Sheets (or whatever they called them) and one was very in-depth on humidity and guitars. Once I started paying attention, I noticed belly bulge and/or dip, and backs being flat and such, and fret ends poking out.  After getting a tiny crack in my Larrivee parlor and a bit of bridge lift, and the ensuing chiding from my repair guy, I started paying more attention.  Now I have little hydrometers around the house and that I can put in cases if I want to check individual guitars. Oh, and soap box and sponge in-case humidifiers.  I humidify the house so I'm comfortable, the guitars in their cases so they are.

Ed

Quote from: eded on December 16, 2022, 07:50:54 AM
I started paying more attention.  Now I have little hydrometers around the house and that I can put in cases if I want to check individual guitars. Oh, and soap box and sponge in-case humidifiers.  I humidify the house so I'm comfortable, the guitars in their cases so they are.

Ed

Hygrometers are cheap. I have a $10 hygrometer for my son's Christmas stocking because he thinks his natural gas forced air furnace keeps his house properly humidified.
(We'll see if he's right.)

All I know is that here in SW Florida our AC is on 98% of the time. The RH in my house stays between 37% & 40% . My guitars are kept in their cases with a soap dish containing those water gel balls. So far no problem