Holey Moley. I've owned two of these legendary guitars. The first I bought new in 1971 for about $125.00 and which I foolishly sold to a good friend on the condition he sell it back to me when he bought his Martin. He reneged. I searched out and bought another one about twenty years ago and I was surprised at what these guitars were selling for at that time. Talking to my son in law about it tonight I decided to look up these things and was rather stunned to see a couple of them listed at $1,300.00. I'm not sure if any guitars that weren't owned by famous people have gone up in value as much as these have.
It amazes me what some guitars are going for too.
Quote from: unclrob on August 31, 2021, 01:35:38 AM
It amazes me what some guitars are going for too.
Yeah but most of them aren't plywood! :laughin:
I'm presuming you mean 'Red Label' guitars as these are mostly called. Do you have a serial number on yours? And is yours an 'FG 180' or something else?
Yeah ... and just try finding a LEFTY!!!
It's not on my GAS list, but a lot of people have great memories of these, and hold them in esteem along with their D-28's (for which they sometimes served as a backup).
Quote from: jazzereh on August 31, 2021, 02:07:20 PM
I'm presuming you mean 'Red Label' guitars as these are mostly called. Do you have a serial number on yours? And is yours an 'FG 180' or something else?
Tomato/tomahto. I'm Canadian and we talk real funny. I've heard them called both. It had an SN on the back of the headstock but it wore off as did most of the word Yamaha on the front of the headstock (stupid Kysers). It's a
red label with Yamaha Guitar FG-180 Nippon Gakki (the old name for Yamaha corp) on it. The 180's are the ones that are most desirable and have gone up most in value but are you implying it's not one of the real deals?
https://reverb.com/ca/p/yamaha-fg-180-jumbo-dreadnought-natural
Quote from: Mikeymac on August 31, 2021, 02:31:05 PM
Yeah ... and just try finding a LEFTY!!!
It's not on my GAS list, but a lot of people have great memories of these, and hold them in esteem along with their D-28's (for which they sometimes served as a backup).
Sometimes called a poor man's D-28. Apparently, Yamaha has a reissue. :beer
Quote from: ducktrapper on August 31, 2021, 03:21:34 PM
Tomato/tomahto. I'm Canadian and we talk real funny. I've heard them called both. It had an SN on the back of the headstock but it wore off as did most of the word Yamaha on the front of the headstock (stupid Kysers). It's a red label with Yamaha Guitar FG-180 Nippon Gakki (the old name for Yamaha corp) on it. The 180's are the ones that are most desirable and have gone up most in value but are you implying it's not one of the real deals?
https://reverb.com/ca/p/yamaha-fg-180-jumbo-dreadnought-natural
I happen to be a Canuck and have not heard them called other than Red Label. I also have an FG-180 from the '60's and was implying nothing. The link you provide is for one made in Taiwan and is priced way less than you mention and more in line with what I've seen.
Quote from: jazzereh on August 31, 2021, 05:09:30 PM
I happen to be a Canuck and have not heard them called other than Red Label. I also have an FG-180 from the '60's and was implying nothing. The link you provide is for one made in Taiwan and is priced way less than you mention and more in line with what I've seen.
I was just kidding around. I've always considered a label and a tag to be the same thing, however. These guitars were made between 1969 and 1971 in Japan. After that the labels changed colours. Anyway, if you scroll down my link you'll see a few others. I believe the first one is a mistake and it's not Taiwanese. Either that or the year is wrong. From what I can see, the label seems right. And just to be clear, the $1,300 one at the bottom (marked down from nearly $1600) is located in Japan which may put the price way out of line. :beer
One of the ads (for an $1,100 one) mentions "medium" action, which makes me chuckle: IOW, non-playable above the 3rd fret!
Most old Yamaha's I've run across (including one I bought used for my wife around 1980) need a neck reset, which costs more than many of them are worth (though maybe not the Red Label ones).
Quote from: Mikeymac on September 02, 2021, 03:18:45 PM
One of the ads (for an $1,100 one) mentions "medium" action, which makes me chuckle: IOW, non-playable above the 3rd fret!
Most old Yamaha's I've run across (including one I bought used for my wife around 1980) need a neck reset, which costs more than many of them are worth (though maybe not the Red Label ones).
In 1971, my friend and I bought what we thought were identical FG-180s. I bought mine at a well established music store and he bought his from a record store. Mine was very sweet, nice action, sounded great his, imho, was a dog. We didn't know much about set up so who knows why.
This one (that I got off Ebay for $250.00 USD in 2003), besides the beating it's taken (including two scratched in sets of initials), has had the tuners replaced with Grovers and appears to have had a neck reset. If its sound and playability are any indication and judging from what a used Red Label in good condition might go for in the future, perhaps well worth the expense. $120.00 CDN in 1970, they're already selling for 6 to 10 times their original price. How many plywood guitars have done that?
I had a Dean Markley, Tahoe stereo pickup installed (bought cheap) and it's all good. I love this guitar and would have no problem having it as my only guitar should some kind of tragedy befall the others.
Quote from: ducktrapper on August 30, 2021, 11:20:52 PM
I'm not sure if any guitars that weren't owned by famous people have gone up in value as much as these have.
Gibson J-45 was $45 when it came out in 1942 ;)
Quote from: noyage on September 02, 2021, 06:44:24 PM
Gibson J-45 was $45 when it came out in 1942 ;)
Point taken and, of course, we could bring in difference in wages. I guess I can see a Martin D-28 which was around $500.00 in 1970 selling for $4,500.00 fifty years later but the laminated Yamaha which was around $120.00 also being worth ten times as much today sort of surprised me. I mean you can get a nice brand spankin' new Yamaha with a solid spruce top for around $300.00. :beer
I still have my Yamaha, it's an FG-140 Red label from Taiwan purchased new from Hi- Note music store in Oakville Ontario in '73. (first acoustic)
It was around a hundred bucks, had one of my college teachers offer me five hundred cash for it a few times in 74-75.
It has a great amount of sentimental value to me these days.
Quote from: Rockysdad on September 02, 2021, 08:46:23 PM
I still have my Yamaha, it's an FG-140 Red label from Taiwan purchased new from Hi- Note music store in Oakville Ontario in '73. (first acoustic)
It was around a hundred bucks, had one of my college teachers offer me five hundred cash for it a few times in 74-75.
It has a great amount of sentimental value to me these days.
Right on. I've had a half a dozen various Yamahas over the years and am a big fan of their guitars. I'd be interested in trying the 50th Anniversary reissue of the FG-180 from that era. $899.00 They only made 180 of them for the US. It's been upgraded to all solid woods. Hope that didn't ruin them. :winkin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzBhXGydMC0
Out of curiosity, I Googled the terms and now it's as clear as mud. Not opposites like cut and paste but not exactly synonyms ... or are they? :?
"The difference between Label and Tag
When used as nouns, label means a small ticket or sign giving information about something to which it is attached or intended to be attached, whereas tag means a small label.
When used as verbs, label means to put a label (a ticket or sign) on (something), whereas tag means to label (something)."
Who knows? Maybe I've never heard anyone but me call them "red tags" or maybe I got confused with sales at The Brick ... although they don't sell guitars. :laughin:
Dunno...
...but down here (south of the 49th) we all know what a "Red TAG Sale" is, but I've never heard of a "Red LABEL Sale"... :?
Quote from: Mikeymac on September 06, 2021, 02:04:46 PM
Dunno...
...but down here (south of the 49th) we all know what a "Red TAG Sale" is, but I've never heard of a "Red LABEL Sale"... :?
Check the link. There's four or five of them for sale! :laughin:
Although, on edit, I have to admit that I've had the (family) nickname "label" since I was knee high to a stand up bass. But I ain't no red! :tongue:
Quote from: ducktrapper on September 02, 2021, 08:10:55 PM
I mean you can get a nice brand spankin' new Yamaha with a solid spruce top for around $300.00. :beer
I just did that a couple weeks ago. Picked up a lefty
FG820 - the lefty version is over $300, though ($379 - why, Yamaha? Other's don't charge an extra $100 these days for a lefty version of their low end guitar... but I digress...).
But it's a very well built guitar, with (as you said) a nice, solid Sitka Spruce top, and what Yamaha says is updated (in @ 2016) scalloped top bracing to enhance the tone. Seems to help. Back and sides on this model are supposedly (laminated) Mahogany, while the cheaper FG800 is Nato, and the next model up (FG830?) has laminated Rosewood b&s. But this is the only lefty in the line.
Doesn't sound like a Martin (Martins are warmer), BUT - it does sorta sound like some Larrivees with it's brighter tone across all the strings (that's the main difference I hear between my Larrys and Martins). Plenty of impressive thump on the low E string, and I think the sound will improve with playing.
I lowered the nut slots a little, and presto, a nicely playing, nice sounding "budget" guitar that can go anywhere w/o fear of loss or damage (unless it's your only instrument).
:coffee :donut
Looks very nice Mike. Just what you needed. :laughin:
I play my old Yammie every day and not just because it's the one that's out on a stand. Kind of a chicken and egg thing, I guess. I hope that one turns out to be as good in 50 years. :beer
Quote from: ducktrapper on November 14, 2021, 01:55:20 PM
I hope that one turns out to be as good in 50 years. :beer
I won't be around to find out ... or if I am, I won't be able to hear anymore! :rolleye:
Quote from: Mikeymac on November 14, 2021, 05:32:47 PM
I won't be around to find out ... or if I am, I won't be able to hear anymore! :rolleye:
Maybe and who knows if the original owner of mine is around either? Does it matter to the guitar? :?
Quote from: ducktrapper on November 14, 2021, 05:42:18 PM
Maybe and who knows if the original owner of mine is around either? Does it matter to the guitar? :?
Yeah, how selfish of me... only thinking of myself and not this lowly budget guitar... :doh
Quote from: Mikeymac on November 16, 2021, 04:25:26 PM
Yeah, how selfish of me... only thinking of myself and not this lowly budget guitar... :doh
There you go! Glad I could help. :rolleye:
I like Yamaha guitars and have played several that would be great keepers. Maybe it's just me, though, but I don't care for the look of their pickguard: how it goes around the front edge of the soundhole, etc. I don't know why but I just can't get used to that look. If I owned one, I'd have to remove it or replace with a more traditional PG.
Quote from: Silence Dogood on November 19, 2021, 10:45:28 AM
I like Yamaha guitars and have played several that would be great keepers. Maybe it's just me, though, but I don't care for the look of their pickguard: how it goes around the front edge of the soundhole, etc. I don't know why but I just can't get used to that look. If I owned one, I'd have to remove it or replace with a more traditional PG.
Okay. I disagree but, hey, if you own it, you can do what you want with it. I get it though. I have similar distaste for the look of Taylor pg's and a huge fondness for the pgless Larrivee look. :beer
What I don't understand is Mike's apparent viewpoint that I should perhaps care less for one of my guitars because it's not as expensive as the others. :?
Quote from: ducktrapper on November 19, 2021, 11:08:28 AM
Okay. I disagree but, hey, if you own it, you can do what you want with it. I get it though. I have similar distaste for the look of Taylor pg's and a huge fondness for the pgless Larrivee look. :beer
What I don't understand is Mike's apparent viewpoint that I should perhaps care less for one of my guitars because it's not as expensive as the others. :?
Pickguards (and headstock shapes) and the preferences that go along with them are funny things. I don't know why but I have always loved the look of the Taylor PG, and if someone changes it to another more traditional one, it somehow throws off the whole look of the guitar to me. I also don't know why the Yamaha one looks so cheap and off-putting to me. Like you, I really like the PG-less look of Larrivee. My own Larrivee once had a clear PG and I ended up peeling it off many years ago. I think it was lifting in one place and I ended up liking it even better sans ANY pickguard.
Ok, sorry to hijack with a pickguard question, but if you take the pickguard (tortoise shell on my Larrivee) how long does it take the top color to even out? I assume there would be a a baby bottom new pickguard shaped light spot on my spruce top. 2014 guitar, sits out of case.
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Quote from: Jamolay on November 20, 2021, 09:25:24 PM
Ok, sorry to hijack with a pickguard question, but if you take the pickguard (tortoise shell on my Larrivee) how long does it take the top color to even out? I assume there would be a a baby bottom new pickguard shaped light spot on my spruce top. 2014 guitar, sits out of case.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If there's a pg shadow, it will always be there barring refinishing the guitar. Just be thankful it's not an old Martin.
Quote from: ducktrapper on November 20, 2021, 09:57:20 PM
If there's a pg shadow, it will always be there barring refinishing the guitar. Just be thankful it's not an old Martin.
Yoiks! I think I will stick with the pickguard then.
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Quote from: Jamolay on November 20, 2021, 11:06:37 PM
Yoiks! I think I will stick with the pickguard then.
If the guitar is new and you remove early, there will likely be no shadow, however. If there is, replace the pickguard. Martin used to finish guitars after putting the pg on. I, of course, replaced the pg. :beer
I've got an old Takamine that was about five years old when I peeled off the PG, which revealed a nice tan line. I figured I'd leave off the PG and let the tan line disappear. That was over twenty years ago and the tan line has never changed one bit. I've never been able to figure out why and how it tanned in the first place, or why it never changed later on. I eventually put another black PG on it.
Quote from: Silence Dogood on November 21, 2021, 09:54:14 AM
I've got an old Takamine that was about five years old when I peeled off the PG, which revealed a nice tan line. I figured I'd leave off the PG and let the tan line disappear. That was over twenty years ago and the tan line has never changed one bit. I've never been able to figure out why and how it tanned in the first place, or why it never changed later on. I eventually put another black PG on it.
It has to do with light changing the nature of the finish. The finish under the pg has not been affected the same way and can never catch up. You'd have to cover the area originally not covered, leaving the pg area uncovered, for as long as the pg area was covered? I'm no expert, however.
Quote from: ducktrapper on November 19, 2021, 11:08:28 AM
What I don't understand is Mike's apparent viewpoint that I should perhaps care less for one of my guitars because it's not as expensive as the others. :?
Did I say that? Or is there another Mike around here?
These guitars are amazing values, when you consider their build quality and solid top... go back to 1970-74 prices, and what would one of these cost? Sixty-five bucks, maybe? A seriously good deal.
Quote from: Silence Dogood on November 20, 2021, 09:06:00 AM
Pickguards (and headstock shapes) and the preferences that go along with them are funny things. I don't know why but I have always loved the look of the Taylor PG, and if someone changes it to another more traditional one, it somehow throws off the whole look of the guitar to me. I also don't know why the Yamaha one looks so cheap and off-putting to me. Like you, I really like the PG-less look of Larrivee. My own Larrivee once had a clear PG and I ended up peeling it off many years ago. I think it was lifting in one place and I ended up liking it even better sans ANY pickguard.
I've grown to like Yamaha's pg - and their different bridge shape (hey, Taylor has their own bridge shape, too). Good for Yamaha, being secure enough to not copy Martin exactly - in ANY dimension (body shape, PG, bridge, headstock).
I also prefer Larrivee's w/o pg's ... or with clear ones, unless it's a 40 Series Martin clone. I've owned a couple older Larrivees that had the clear pg, which, when you take them off, also leave a bit of a shadow (I've done this when converting a couple of old right-handed L-bodies to lefty). Like duck said, the only way to get rid of the shadow is to cover up the rest of the top and let the pg area "catch up" sitting in sunlight (for however long it takes).
P.S. My all-time favorite electric guitar is this one: a Yamaha SA1000...all original, 1982 made in Japan lefty. It is absolutely PERFECT (tone, playability, quality).
"Yeah, how selfish of me... only thinking of myself and not this lowly budget guitar" :doh
Implied if not accompanied by a wink? No biggie. I've collected guitars over the years based on their playability and affordability. Nothing else much matters to me. Like my children, I love them all regardless. :beer
Here's one of Yamaha's early high end guitars; sounds pretty darn good! (Of course Carl Miner makes just about any guitar sound amazing...)
1971 Yamaha FG-2000 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZAffDC6YXY)
I'm reviving this (somewhat old) thread. A guitar center near me has a Yamaha FGX3, the Chinese built version, not the Japanese FGX5. It has their torrefied top, and the sound was amazing, especially the deep bass. I also loved the rolled fretboard edges. Sometimes I wish my Larrivees had rolled fretboard edges because the maple binding has such a sharp right angle. Anyway, these red labels are pretty impressive with the torrefied tops.
Quote from: StringPicker6 on August 19, 2023, 08:32:14 AMI'm reviving this (somewhat old) thread. A guitar center near me has a Yamaha FGX3, the Chinese built version, not the Japanese FGX5. It has their torrefied top, and the sound was amazing, especially the deep bass. I also loved the rolled fretboard edges. Sometimes I wish my Larrivees had rolled fretboard edges because the maple binding has such a sharp right angle. Anyway, these red labels are pretty impressive with the torrefied tops.
These may have a red label but are not the red label guitars people talk about. I'm sure they're fine, however. I love Yamahas. I thought they were made in the custom shop in Japan. I would love to try one of the new FG-180s.
The Yamahas with the 5 in their model name are made in the Japan custom luthier shop. The 3's are made in China.
I always thought when folk speak of "red labels" they're referring to the Japanese Yamahas from the 70s. The new ones are knock-offs, though some are prob fine guitars.
Quote from: Silence Dogood on August 19, 2023, 11:33:37 AMI always thought when folk speak of "red labels" they're referring to the Japanese Yamahas from the 70s. The new ones are knock-offs, though some are prob fine guitars.
Yes. The new ones are probably better but a lot more dough. Solid wood now. The originals in the late 60's/early 70's were also known as poor man's Martins. All laminate but very nice guitars. I paid $150 Cdn for the first one in 1971. Stupidly sold it and ended up buying another for three times as much. I like it a lot.
While not a Red Label, I recently picked up a left-handed '79 or '80 FG335 all laminate Yamaha that sounds so much better than it should. Bought it unplayed/unheard from Dave's Guitar Shop/LaCrosse for $150 + $20 shipping (no case or bag). Figured it was a worthwhile gamble, and I'm very happy - very surprised!
The action was on the verge of too high, so the repair guy suggested lowering/shaving down the bridge a bit - and it worked. I replaced the saddle with a bone Martin style compensated saddle and also replaced the nut with a bone one and redid the string spacing more to my liking. Love, love, LOVE the neck shape on this guitar! Fills my hand nicely and doesn't cause fatigue.
There's really only one thing I'd change if I could, and that would be to widen the string spacing at the saddle; it's just under two inches, so it's very tight for fingerstyle (maybe not for smaller Japanese hands?), okay for strumming and flatpicking. Would be great if it could be 2 1/4" or even 2 1/8" like old Martin dreads, but I manage.
The tone is very similar to a 2008 Martin D-28 I have - but the Yamaha has a little more punch in the midrange - what some players call "cut"... it does cut better than the D-28. The treble B and E strings sound thick and not at all twangy. The low E string has less bass than the D-28, but it's still fine...is this really an all laminate guitar? Blindfolded, I wouldn't believe it!
Also put on a set of Schertler open back tuners I had sitting in a box (smoothest tuners I've every found!). With the $75 for the bridge work, it's the best $225 I've spend in a long time!
That's a fantastic price! Well done. :thumbsup