...then it goes away.   For a while. 

I seem to go back and forth on this a lot.  I think of how nice a 12 would sound on certain songs; then I pick up my 6-string and play and think, "Ah, this is fine.  Who needs a 12-string?"   

One day last year (or maybe it was way earlier this year) I even went to my rat-hole and took out several 100 dollar bills and went to a guitar shop. I played a nice 12-string for a good hour, and even took it up to the counter with the intention of leaving my 100 dollar bills there in its stead.  But (I think) it came down to around $30 I wasn't willing to budge on and I walked, glad to still have my rat-hole money, but I still have no 12-string. 

Now I find myself looking up 12s online once more and the urge is getting strong again.  This morning I was seriously considering an older Taylor 355 12-er that I found for a good price.

Do you have a 12-string?   How often do you play it?  Was it worth it to you, even if you only play it occasionally? 

I have owned a 12 string of some sort or another since the 70's{anyone  remember the 70's}.In the 70's I had 6 at once most being Lawsuit from Japan.In the 80's I found jumbo Guild and that was it.In the 2000's I started adding Larrivee's an 09koa and a OM03 both I wish I keep.When my Guild jumbo Died I bought a Seagul which I never bonded with.I gave it to  my duo partner and bought a Guild jumbo from China which felt and sounded like my old Guild and I happy.
As to why a 12 string well its the sonic tone that ad a life to a tune thats missing to my ear.I tune to pitch and in open D or G tuning.As a player I find its a useful tool.

I have a couple. One electric and one acoustic and, no, I don't play them often. They're there when they're needed, however. My advice is find a cheap used one. My Washburn cost $200.00 and it works fine. The Yamaha Pacifica cost more but I use the electric 12 more. It's very nice.  :beer   

The trouble with 12-strings is you spend half your time tuning, and the other half playing out-of-tune.
:humour:
(With apologies for a very old joke.)

Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2020, 03:11:44 PM
The trouble with 12-strings is you spend half your time tuning, and the other half playing out-of-tune.
:humour:
(With apologies for a very old joke.)

:roll :roll :roll

I picked up one of those Guild D1212's a couple or few years ago, all Mahogany Dred.

It was cheap, but it sounds and plays really well. It takes care of my 12 string itch.

If you can find one to try, do it.

Love/Hate relationship with 12's here.  I've been through a bunch...  love the sound, I get one, get tired of it (scale and body size mostly with acoustics), and get rid of it. Electrics are persnickety...  I once had a 66 Fender Electric XII.  That was the one guitar in my life that "got away".  Other electric 12's just don't have "it".  I did play a Reverend 12 strings recently that was really really nice.  Sometime I want to try a Viellette Avante...  short scale, small body.  

Ed

The one I almost bought a while back was one of the Chinese Guild jumbos.  It was nice and sounded good, but it was very light and I was concerned about it holding up for the long haul (I tend to keep stuff for a long time).  Entirely possible that such a fear was unfounded though.  Hindsight I'm glad I didn't get it.  But still I want a 12-string sometimes.

If you don't enjoy having chickens, you will HATE having a 12 string.
Mike

Quote from: Silence Dogood on October 11, 2020, 09:48:10 PM
The one I almost bought a while back was one of the Chinese Guild jumbos.  It was nice and sounded good, but it was very light and I was concerned about it holding up for the long haul (I tend to keep stuff for a long time).  Entirely possible that such a fear was unfounded though.  Hindsight I'm glad I didn't get it.  But still I want a 12-string sometimes.

I have the made in China one after I bought mine my duo partner bought one.Well made guitar action is great play's in tune up the neck.I almost bought the jumbo jr which is an OM in a jumbo shape but a lefty L10koa l came my way still thinking of getting one.

I use a 12 string on8 of the 30 or so tune's in the Keith and Barefoot Rob duo and Gene Lloye duo I'm up to 5 tunes.

Quote from: Silence Dogood on October 11, 2020, 09:48:10 PM
The one I almost bought a while back was one of the Chinese Guild jumbos.  It was nice and sounded good, but it was very light and I was concerned about it holding up for the long haul (I tend to keep stuff for a long time).  Entirely possible that such a fear was unfounded though.  Hindsight I'm glad I didn't get it.  But still I want a 12-string sometimes.

You need a friend with a 12 string...  lol

I have a few, have owned a few more.

Best sounding 12-string I ever had was my Larrivee  D-03R-12.   Sold it because I am really not a Dreadnought kind of guy.
Had a Guild D-4-12 for a while.  That thing was a beast.  Sold it because I am not really a Dread kind of guy.

The Taylor is ok, but it sounds like a Taylor, kind of thin and ethereal.  Great neck, easy to play, but no "thump"
The Rainsong is a lot better.  Really wish it had a truss rod though, I keep it tuned down 1/2 step.
My Guild F-212 is 47 years old, and really needs a neck reset.

If you don't mind a Dreadnought, the Guild D1212 or the Martin X-series are both nice instruments.

If you want something a bit smaller, then I really like whatever Breedlove's current import series is.  Breedlove tends to change series names every Tuesday, so...

Also Alvarez has an interesting one in their Artist Series (Solid Top, laminate back/sides) with an arm bevel that I think sounds pretty decent at the price.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Alvarez/Artist-Series-Grand-Auditorium-Acoustic-Electric-12-String-Guitar.gc

To be my boring self, it kind of depends on what you're willing to spend. It is not hard to spend a lot of money and end up with a very nice guitar. Hard not to these days unless you're very unlucky. To me, however, getting a nice guitar and NOT spending a lot of money is the trick. Especially for a niche instrument that you won't play that often.  :cheers

Every cheaper 12-string I've ever heard sounded like a cheap guitar.  Most times all I can hear is just strings and no wood.   So if I ever get one I'll get a good one.  I've always liked Taylor 12s and Guilds, but the USA Guilds are almost $4k new.  That, to me, is insane.  I've seen several Larrivee 12s online for $1500-$1800, and some for much less.  That means one could buy at least two and sometimes three of them for the price of one US-made Guild.

I've never owned a Larrivee 12-string, but I've tried out a few, and have always been impressed...they're pretty consistently good.

There was on L-05/12 many years ago (at Mass Street Music in Lawrence, KS) that was incredible...

...current reality:

I didn't own a 12-string for at least two decades, then a couple years ago got the itch and bought a used Takamine - very nice guitar and a great, all solid-wood, made in Japan value.

Then I got the itch for a Martin, and started watching Reverb. A used 16-Series popped up for about the same value as the Takamine, so I bit (and sold the Takamine after comparing the two). The Tak was brighter, the Martin warmer. And - the Martin was actually easier to play (both at standard pitch/tuning)! That was a pleasant surprise!

I used it for worship a couple weeks ago, and, once again, someone said how much they enjoy it when the 12-string comes out. This past week it was one of our male singers who said it really made the songs sound great.

I like Takamines a lot, but I strongly dislike the barn door EQ panels.  If I could find one sans electronics, I would seriously consider it. 

Quote from: Silence Dogood on October 12, 2020, 10:03:47 AM
Every cheaper 12-string I've ever heard sounded like a cheap guitar.  Most times all I can hear is just strings and no wood.   So if I ever get one I'll get a good one.  I've always liked Taylor 12s and Guilds, but the USA Guilds are almost $4k new.  That, to me, is insane.  I've seen several Larrivee 12s online for $1500-$1800, and some for much less.  That means one could buy at least two and sometimes three of them for the price of one US-made Guild.

Guitars do not have to be (more) expensive to sound good or to play well. That's why, 45 years ago, I got into Larrivées in the first place. How times change! Anyway, it's the fingers not the strings.  :cheers

Quote from: ducktrapper on October 12, 2020, 01:13:31 PM
Guitars do not have to be (more) expensive to sound good or to play well. That's why, 45 years ago, I got into Larrivées in the first place. How times change! Anyway, it's the fingers not the strings.  :cheers

I agree with the spirit of your post, and for the record I love cheap guitars and by nature tend to root for the underdog (one of the reasons I chose Larrivee).  But I still have never heard a cheap 12-string that didn't sound thin and, well, cheap.  Lots of jangle but no bottom end or character   If I ever ran across a cheap one that sounded good, I'd be happy to be proven wrong. 

Quote from: Silence Dogood on October 11, 2020, 01:39:00 PM
I seem to go back and forth on this a lot.  I think of how nice a 12 would sound on certain songs; then I pick up my 6-string and play and think, "Ah, this is fine.  Who needs a 12-string?" 

So what is it exactly you think you want to do on a 12 string?
Cause you are going to be unhappy with it if it just lies around not played and then you pick it up and expect satisfaction.
Mike

Quote from: mike in lytle on October 13, 2020, 09:04:38 PM
So what is it exactly you think you want to do on a 12 string?
Cause you are going to be unhappy with it if it just lies around not played and then you pick it up and expect satisfaction.
Mike

Certain songs seems to call for one.  Plus I just love the way they sound.  And feel. And look. 

Quote from: mike in lytle on October 13, 2020, 09:04:38 PM
So what is it exactly you think you want to do on a 12 string?

Quote from: Silence Dogood on October 13, 2020, 09:13:16 PM
Certain songs seems to call for one.  Plus I just love the way they sound.  And feel. And look.  

You did not answer my question. Sound, feel and looks don't count.
You seemed to say you would play "certain songs"? That is what you would do with a 12 string?
Mike

One of the tune's that I play with Gee is done on 2 12 strings 18 by Alice Cooper.At a ScuFi show he meant Mr Cooper and told him about it and he loved it an ask Gene would mind if he did with a 12 string...Gene told him its his tune.

The Seagul I had was a very nice sounding 12er just didn't feel right in my hands.It was under used $275.

Quote from: mike in lytle on October 13, 2020, 10:04:40 PM
You did not answer my question. Sound, feel and looks don't count.
You seemed to say you would play "certain songs"? That is what you would do with a 12 string?
Mike

Yeah, a 12 for certain songs is pretty much my answer.  I think they sound great in certain settings.

Quote from: Silence Dogood on October 14, 2020, 10:54:32 AM
Yeah, a 12 for certain songs is pretty much my answer.  I think they sound great in certain settings.

It may be helpful to explore the tunes you like and experiment with the chords with strumming, cross picking or flatpicking or whatever, and come up with a few pieces of your own. Rob has already mentioned open D and open G tunings. I have a 12 in drop D and one 12 in open G, and I play those guitars often. Playing it daily or several times a week will do wonders cause your left hand will become stronger, your callouses will be tougher, the guitar will not fall asleep, and you will have material to stay enthusiastic about. Of course there are standard songs in 12 string you can learn, but there is also a nice feeling that comes from knowing "I made this one up myself".
Mike

Quote from: mike in lytle on October 14, 2020, 11:42:42 AM
It may be helpful to explore the tunes you like and experiment with the chords with strumming, cross picking or flatpicking or whatever, and come up with a few pieces of your own. Rob has already mentioned open D and open G tunings. I have a 12 in drop D and one 12 in open G, and I play those guitars often. Playing it daily or several times a week will do wonders cause your left hand will become stronger, your callouses will be tougher, the guitar will not fall asleep, and you will have material to stay enthusiastic about. Of course there are standard songs in 12 string you can learn, but there is also a nice feeling that comes from knowing "I made this one up myself".
Mike

All excellent ideas.   About half of what I know how to play is stuff that I made up.  I really enjoy doing that.   I have two acoustics and keep one in standard tuning and the other (my Larrivee) tuned down a whole step.  I also drop D (to C in that case) quite a bit.   I've never really explored open tunings.   Something to think about for sure.   

Quote from: Silence Dogood on October 14, 2020, 12:56:42 PM
All excellent ideas.   About half of what I know how to play is stuff that I made up.  I really enjoy doing that.   I have two acoustics and keep one in standard tuning and the other (my Larrivee) tuned down a whole step.  I also drop D (to C in that case) quite a bit.   I've never really explored open tunings.   Something to think about for sure.   

Cool. You can also drop the G string to F# in drop D tuning. It opens up some interesting variations to drop D.
Open G for guitar is similar to 5 string bluegrass banjo tuning. It is a very cool tuning, and many chord shapes are pretty easy.
Open G tuning becomes very, very cool when the 12 string is tuned down 1-1/2 steps, which puts you into the key of E. Playing along with someone (or recording yourself) who is playing key of E on 6 string makes a sweet guitar combination, mostly cause of the lower registers on the 12 string.
Mike

Quote from: Silence Dogood on October 12, 2020, 02:37:19 PM
I agree with the spirit of your post, and for the record I love cheap guitars and by nature tend to root for the underdog (one of the reasons I chose Larrivee).  But I still have never heard a cheap 12-string that didn't sound thin and, well, cheap.  Lots of jangle but no bottom end or character   If I ever ran across a cheap one that sounded good, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.  

It's not the price, it's the materials and workmanship. Who knows I've only played the one and maybe I got lucky but when I bought my Washburn D10S12 at a GC in Appleton, they also had a used Taylor 12 string for about $1200.00 more. Playing both and considering my needs, I actually preferred the Washburn. Sold woods, nice workmanship, nice tuners. All I had to do is put new strings on it. I find 12 strings generally tend to be jangly and not bottomly, if that makes sense. It's the doubled plain strings. The jangle is what makes them what they are, isn't it? I agree however, play a bunch and only buy one you like.  :cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h2yeG6Yl0E  

Quote from: ducktrapper on October 14, 2020, 02:55:51 PM
It's not the price, it's the materials and workmanship. Who knows I've only played the one and maybe I got lucky but when I bought my Washburn D10S12 at a GC in Appleton, they also had a used Taylor 12 string for about $1200.00 more. Playing both and considering my needs, I actually preferred the Washburn. Sold woods, nice workmanship, nice tuners. All I had to do is put new strings on it. I find 12 strings generally tend to be jangly and not bottomly, if that makes sense. It's the doubled plain strings. The jangle is what makes them what they are, isn't it? I agree however, play a bunch and only buy one you like.  :cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h2yeG6Yl0E  

I would love to find a GOOD less expensive 12 and would prob buy one if I did.   I've always loved the Taylor 12s since I was a teen (about 30 years ago now). They must not be very popular because I've seen several 355 12s for way less than $1k.  

Quote from: Silence Dogood on October 14, 2020, 08:15:34 PM
I would love to find a GOOD less expensive 12 and would prob buy one if I did.   I've always loved the Taylor 12s since I was a teen (about 30 years ago now). They must not be very popular because I've seen several 355 12s for way less than $1k.  

Good luck. I've found the thing with the less expensive guitars is often a lack of consistency. Sometimes you find one that really stands out from the herd, however.   :cheers

Ok, so while not necessarily "cheap" (the shop was asking $550), today I ran across an older Yamaha 12-string.  I know about the red labels and this was not one of them.  It had a yellowed label that was probably once off-white.  It had a wider headstock with a bird on it, where today it has a "Y" there.  The label had "Made in China" and the shop owner told me it was made in 1976.  I admit I don't know a lot about Yamahas, but I didn't think they made guitars in China that far back.  I thought back then they were either Japan or Taiwan?  Maybe I'm wrong.  

At any rate, this guitar was a BEAST and I came close to leaving with it.  But it was pretty ugly.  I did a image search online for this particular model and could not locate one.  It really did sound great.  The price seemed a bit high to me for a China-made guitar too.  If it was a Japanese one, I might feel differntly.  

Bottom line, though, this was a seriously nice sounding and playing guitar for not a lot of money.  I was impressed!

I've had nothing but good luck with Yamahas regardless of where they were built. I've owned a half dozen of them over the years and I currently own three including a "Red Tag" FG-180, an NTX900FM nylon crossover and a Pacifica electric 12 string all of which I like very much.  :cheers

Have one. No, but had three.  A Korean guitar from a pawn shop (my 1st guitar, what a nightmare), a Noname from Japan (OK) and a Taylor 555 (very nice.) 
Played often: yes, daily for a few songs.
Worth it.  You bet.  (Especially good if you are playing fills for a singer with a baritone voice. )

There are 20 Taylor 355s on Reverb right now.

 In 1977,I bought an Ovation 12 string Pacemaker and sold it 12 years later because I never bonded with the neck and the plastic back never changed the sound in 12 years.

In 2005, I ordered a custom 12 string Larrivee (LV03MT). The custom aspects of this guitar include a mahogany top which provides a full sound and softens the jangle often associated with 12 strings and the cutaway, bone nut and saddle. I pulled this guitar out last night and it's really matured nicely.

As a general rule of thumb, I do think you need to spend a little more on a 12 string. Most of them tend to feel overbuilt because they have to be able to handle the strings. The necks and intonation can also be tricky. Larrivee solved and eliminated all those problems with my guitar for $1,000 out the door.