Main Forums => Larrivée Guitars => Topic started by: ewalling on June 04, 2012, 09:30:59 AM

Title: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ewalling on June 04, 2012, 09:30:59 AM
I'm sure this topic will have come up many times, so sorry to be treading old ground if this is the case. Having recently sold my Martin, I seriously interested in adding a rosewood Larrivee to my small collection. Is the extra $600-$800 on the 09 purely for cosmetic bling, or is there some other feature that is considered an upgrade?
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: unclrob on June 04, 2012, 09:39:45 AM
It can be as simple as gloss v satin finish for some.Me I do prefer gloss but I do own and play a satin finish.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on June 04, 2012, 09:50:29 AM
Yes and yes.

Really Friend it's up to the individual.

Tone wise you have camps passionate on both. And a 3rd group who feels there is no difference.

Upgrades I believe the 09's have upgraded tuners, and bone nut and saddle ( again there are camps affectionate to both) and supposedly 09's have upgraded wood ( camps on this too as it's all Larrivees wood and I have not seen many 03's that had less than exceptional wood choices).

For me I prefer the feel of gloss over satin on acoustics, and I am a sucker for bling, there are many around here who are the opposite. It's what makes the world go round.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: GGBB on June 04, 2012, 10:24:16 AM
It also used to be that the case was better - not sure if this is so now.  There are a few (including me) who believe the 03 necks are a touch chunkier than the 05/09 necks.

A bunch of little things can add up.  However, while I can understand the difference between an 03 and an 05, I can't understand why the difference between the 03R and the 09 is more when all that's changing is the mahogany to rosewood.  The 05-09 price jump is about 2.5 times the 03-03R jump.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ewalling on June 04, 2012, 10:28:44 AM
Thanks for the replies. I find that sometimes I like satin and sometimes gloss, depending on the maker. I find that when it comes to Larrivees, I really like the look of gloss, and I was wondering if there was any justification for me to fork out the extra bucks and go for one aside from prettiness. Looks like the jury's out on that one!     :smile:
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ducktrapper on June 04, 2012, 10:29:17 AM
Quote from: GGBB on June 04, 2012, 10:24:16 AM
It also used to be that the case was better - not sure if this is so now.  There are a few (including me) who believe the 03 necks are a touch chunkier than the 05/09 necks.

A bunch of little things can add up.  However, while I can understand the difference between an 03 and an 05, I can't understand why the difference between the 03R and the 09 is more when all that's changing is the mahogany to rosewood.  The 05-09 price jump is about 2.5 times the 03-03R jump.

I believe the necks on all Larrivées from 01s to 10s (except for nut width) come out of the same barrel. Larrivée may be the only guitar manufacturer who does not give you less guitar when you pay less for one of their models. Less appointments only.  
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ewalling on June 04, 2012, 10:30:07 AM
Quote from: GGBB on June 04, 2012, 10:24:16 AM
It also used to be that the case was better - not sure if this is so now.  There are a few (including me) who believe the 03 necks are a touch chunkier than the 05/09 necks.

A bunch of little things can add up.  However, while I can understand the difference between an 03 and an 05, I can't understand why the difference between the 03R and the 09 is more when all that's changing is the mahogany to rosewood.  The 05-09 price jump is about 2.5 times the 03-03R jump.

Yes, that is curious.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: srwmme on June 04, 2012, 10:47:18 AM
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on June 04, 2012, 09:50:29 AM
For me I prefer the feel of gloss over satin on acoustics, and I am a sucker for bling
:+1:

The $$ difference gets a bit more manageable if you're willing to shop in the used market.  If you end up leaning this way with your preference, be patient, there are some really nice -09's out there for not much more than a new -03R
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Mikeymac on June 04, 2012, 10:47:43 AM
Consider a used 09 and you'll really make out like a bandit. Larrivee's tend to depreciate like most other guitars, and the older ones, while of the highest quality in build and tonewoods, are not regarding with the same "vintage" attitude that older (pre-70's) Martins and Gibsons enjoy. So a used Larrivee is a real value in today's market.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: cke on June 04, 2012, 12:29:30 PM
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on June 04, 2012, 09:50:29 AM
Yes and yes.

Really Friend it's up to the individual.

Tone wise you have camps passionate on both. And a 3rd group who feels there is no difference.

Upgrades I believe the 09's have upgraded tuners, and bone nut and saddle ( again there are camps affectionate to both) and supposedly 09's have upgraded wood ( camps on this too as it's all Larrivees wood and I have not seen many 03's that had less than exceptional wood choices).

For me I prefer the feel of gloss over satin on acoustics, and I am a sucker for bling, there are many around here who are the opposite. It's what makes the world go round.
Well said.  :+1:
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: guitararmy on June 04, 2012, 01:38:07 PM
A used Larrivee sure makes sense if the price is holding you back from getting a higher series model.  There is a used D10 in the For Sale section that looks nice....
I have a D03R and a D-09 that sound more alike than different. I like the satin and the gloss finishes equally!
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: GGBB on June 04, 2012, 03:41:40 PM
Quote from: ducktrapper on June 04, 2012, 10:29:17 AMI believe the necks on all Larrivées from 01s to 10s (except for nut width) come out of the same barrel.
If memory serves correctly, all Larrivee neck blanks are first CNC machined and then hand worked to the final product.  I'm not sure if Oxnard and Vancouver both do the CNC work or they all come from one place, but either way, the rest of the process is done in separate factories for 03s and 05s/09s.  So not the same barrel at least by my definition of barrel.  Same necks?  Generally speaking yes I would say, but subject to variances no doubt due to different factories/workers and possibly QA tolerances for the different series.  It's not a huge difference, but for me - over the years picking up many many 03s, 05s, and 09s in various shops - a surprisingly consistent experience of the 03s being chunkier just a bit when A/Bed with a 05/09.  On at least one occasion I did a 03/05/09 3-way comparison - I could not feel a difference between the 05 and 09 but the 03 felt chunkier.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: hadden on June 04, 2012, 03:57:22 PM
Great 03 is as high quality in sound and playability as 09. Makes sense for them to make the higher range more different though -- finish and bling not really enough, unless someone from Larrivee says the tops are a little better sound grade and so on, as in JCL using wood from his special reserve for the 45th SO guitars.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Strings4Him on June 04, 2012, 06:17:34 PM
I really like both, but if push came to shove then I'd choose the gloss.  The wood really shines through and the gloss add another level of protection.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: broKen on June 04, 2012, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: ducktrapper on June 04, 2012, 10:29:17 AM
Larrivée may be the only guitar manufacturer who does not give you less guitar when you pay less for one of their models. Less appointments only.  
I should first say that I think MrJCL uses the finest woods available to build ALL his guitars.
I agree with Duck here. I think the difference in the woods chosen for the 03 against that chosen for the 05/09 models is merely appearance. The more appealing looking woods does not mean better tone. The finish does affect sound though, neither good nor bad, just different. As for the necks, that may have more to do with the shop they were built in. (most 03's coming from Can.) In other words, sound is more affected by the quality of construction than by the appearance of the wood used.

If you like flashy, buy an 09/10.


ps; It should be noted here that I do not qualify to speak with any authority to this subject.  :ohmy:  (beat you to it  :tongue: )
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Mr_LV19E on June 05, 2012, 12:27:31 AM
 
Quote from: ewalling on June 04, 2012, 09:30:59 AM
I'm sure this topic will have come up many times, so sorry to be treading old ground if this is the case. Having recently sold my Martin, I seriously interested in adding a rosewood Larrivee to my small collection. Is the extra $600-$800 on the 09 purely for cosmetic bling, or is there some other feature that is considered an upgrade?

The extra $600-$800 is definitely a bargain for the extra work involved in the higher end models. Gloss finish, purfling on front sides and back, abalone inlay in rosette and upgraded tuners.

Doesn't Taylor, Martin and Gibson or really any guitar maker charge more for their higher end models?  I'm not certain I understand why this question comes up so often, seems to me like more labor is going to breakdown into cost's being higher.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: broKen on June 05, 2012, 01:21:42 AM
Quote from: Mr_LV19E on June 05, 2012, 12:27:31 AM

The extra $600-$800 is definitely a bargain for the extra work involved in the higher end models. Gloss finish, purfling on front sides and back, abalone inlay in rosette and upgraded tuners.

Doesn't Taylor, Martin and Gibson or really any guitar maker charge more for their higher end models?  I'm not certain I understand why this question comes up so often, seems to me like more labor is going to breakdown into cost's being higher.

I don't think anyone is questioning the value or costs of those upgrades. But it is good to know that there is no sacrifice made or quality lost by purchasing the more economical model.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ducktrapper on June 05, 2012, 08:42:06 AM
Quote from: broKen on June 04, 2012, 10:40:18 PM
I should first say that I think MrJCL uses the finest woods available to build ALL his guitars.
I agree with Duck here. I think the difference in the woods chosen for the 03 against that chosen for the 05/09 models is merely appearance. The more appealing looking woods does not mean better tone. The finish does affect sound though, neither good nor bad, just different. As for the necks, that may have more to do with the shop they were built in. (most 03's coming from Can.) In other words, sound is more affected by the quality of construction than by the appearance of the wood used.

If you like flashy, buy an 09/10.


ps; It should be noted here that I do not qualify to speak with any authority to this subject.  :ohmy:  (beat you to it  :tongue: )

When I look at the two 01s that I have and compare them to my 09, 05 and 000, I can't imagine how the woods chosen are inferior in any way to the higher models. Beautiful grain, nicely figured ebony on the OM-01 neck especially. Heck they're both mahogany. Try to find another mahogany guitar for the prices I paid. The Baritone, a BT-03, is also as clean as can be with very nice wood. I'm satisfied and tickled too! 
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: AtlasHeating on June 05, 2012, 09:26:27 AM
Swish.
That is the sound of your arm brushing against the satin top
.......
That is the sound of a gloss top

I have tow 03 models and they both swish. Not a bad thing but you can hear it.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ducktrapper on June 05, 2012, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: AtlasHeating on June 05, 2012, 09:26:27 AM
Swish.
That is the sound of your arm brushing against the satin top
.......
That is the sound of a gloss top

I have tow 03 models and they both swish. Not a bad thing but you can hear it.

Play louder or stop towing them.   :whistling:
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Dotneck on June 05, 2012, 12:42:53 PM
Quote from: AtlasHeating on June 05, 2012, 09:26:27 AM
Swish.
That is the sound of your arm brushing against the satin top

That's pretty much why I gave up on the 03 models. That and the glossy models look so much prettier....

:nice guitar:
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: superdave on June 06, 2012, 01:23:12 PM
Not to turn this conversation around but I now have only satin 03 Larrivee's. After having very beautiful gloss models I have moved on, and for my personal taste enjoy the functionality of the satin finish guitars.
Thanks, Dave
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Dotneck on June 06, 2012, 02:11:20 PM
Quote from: superdave on June 06, 2012, 01:23:12 PM
Not to turn this conversation around but I now have only satin 03 Larrivee's. After having very beautiful gloss models I have moved on, and for my personal taste enjoy the functionality of the satin finish guitars.
Thanks, Dave


That's why they make both kinds...differnt strokes and all that...
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: AtlasHeating on June 11, 2012, 10:10:38 AM
I really like the look of the satin finish, and I don't mind the swish, that is why I have two 03 Larrivee guitars.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: MrZamboni on June 11, 2012, 10:48:10 AM
part of the question is the difference between rosewood and mahogany.....check out episode #2 at http://acousticaddicts.com/. They do a comparison between Martins: a D-18 (mahogany), a D-28 and a D-35--all the same build year. They also include a 1968 Braz D-28, and HD-35 and a cheap yamaha. Fascinating stuff!
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: brandon on June 11, 2012, 11:15:14 PM
I think most everyone has hit the nail on the head. I have both a rosewood and mahogany larrivee and much prefer the sound (and looks) of rosewood to mahogany. I also have a hard time bonding with satin finish acoustic guitars. I can handle satin electrics though.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ducktrapper on June 12, 2012, 11:05:13 AM
Quote from: brandon on June 11, 2012, 11:15:14 PM
I think most everyone has hit the nail on the head. I have both a rosewood and mahogany larrivee and much prefer the sound (and looks) of rosewood to mahogany. I also have a hard time bonding with satin finish acoustic guitars. I can handle satin electrics though.

Well, let me hit the head with the nail. Give me the hogs, baby!
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Mr_LV19E on June 12, 2012, 12:43:42 PM
Hog, Rosewood is for sissies. 
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Danny on June 12, 2012, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GGBB on June 04, 2012, 03:41:40 PM
If memory serves correctly, all Larrivee neck blanks are first CNC machined and then hand worked to the final product.  I'm not sure if Oxnard and Vancouver both do the CNC work or they all come from one place, but either way, the rest of the process is done in separate factories for 03s and 05s/09s.  So not the same barrel at least by my definition of barrel.  Same necks?  Generally speaking yes I would say, but subject to variances no doubt due to different factories/workers and possibly QA tolerances for the different series.  It's not a huge difference, but for me - over the years picking up many many 03s, 05s, and 09s in various shops - a surprisingly consistent experience of the 03s being chunkier just a bit when A/Bed with a 05/09.  On at least one occasion I did a 03/05/09 3-way comparison - I could not feel a difference between the 05 and 09 but the 03 felt chunkier.

I have had many levels of Larrivees as well and the necks are mostly the same. One D-09 does stand out as being very thin (2000 model). But the 03's I've had in general are the same, except for grain and color variations, which usually are nicer on the higher end models.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: cke on June 12, 2012, 02:36:03 PM
Quote from: Mr_LV19E on June 12, 2012, 12:43:42 PM
Hog, Rosewood is for sissies. 
Quote from: ducktrapper on June 12, 2012, 11:05:13 AM
Well, let me hit the head with the nail. Give me the hogs, baby!
Wow! Imagine that! Both of you mistyped when you meant Rosewood!  :cheers
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ducktrapper on June 13, 2012, 09:10:43 AM
Quote from: cke on June 12, 2012, 02:36:03 PM
Wow! Imagine that! Both of you mistyped when you meant Rosewood!  :cheers

Lemme see. The D-05? Nope. L-01? Nope. OM-01? Nope. OOO-50? Nope. BT-03? Nope. The ukulele? Nope, that's all mahogany. RS-4? Mahogany with maple cap. Oh wait! That leaves my Brazilian rosewood L. When it comes to wood, I make exceptions only for the exceptional.  :tongue:   :wink:
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on June 13, 2012, 09:19:12 AM
Quote from: ducktrapper on June 13, 2012, 09:10:43 AM
That leaves my Brazilian rosewood L. When it comes to wood, I make exceptions only for the exceptional.  :tongue:   :wink:

You ought to send that ol thing down here to me NS. Imagine it up there spoilin all your Hogs  :smile:
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ducktrapper on June 13, 2012, 09:47:57 AM
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on June 13, 2012, 09:19:12 AM
You ought to send that ol thing down here to me NS. Imagine it up there spoilin all your Hogs  :smile:

Nice try, Andrew.  :laughin:
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: tuffythepug on June 13, 2012, 10:54:11 AM
I guess I'm an equal opportunity player.   I enjoy all my variations which include:    Spruce/maple (gloss)   spruce/mahog. (gloss) .... Spruce/rosewood (satin)  Spruce/rosewood (gloss)  Mahog/mahog (satin) and Mahog/mahog (gloss)....... and one brass resonator.   Each is unique and valued for what it brings to the table.

But I have to admit I wouldn't mind adding one of those new Silverwood Anniversary models   :thumb
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Walkerman on June 13, 2012, 10:55:28 AM
My Larrivees
Koa
Flamed Maple
Quilted Maple
Mahogany
Quilted Mahogany
Madagascar Rosewood
Brazillian Rosewood

and waiting on a silverwood

each and every one is unique and very special.

Title: Re: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Strings4Him on June 13, 2012, 11:04:23 AM
Love them all.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Koamon on June 14, 2012, 10:06:44 PM
Buyer's remorse comes to mind in choosing a gloss over satin. Don't get me wrong, 03s are excellent sounding well made utilitarian no-frills workhorses. One might think that the wood choice may be inferior, but I never found that to be true. Satin finishes seem to make the grain look cheaper and two dimensional, but anyone who has buffed out their satin Larivees has seen the grain texture literally come out...buffing it out also helps get rid of the scratchiness. Tonally, there is a small difference between a satin and a gloss Larivee, it's the player that makes the difference. IMHO people prefer the gloss finishes because there's a pride and appreciation in owning one darn good looking and darn good playing guitar. Most are working stiffs like me who have to keep their day jobs, have GAS and want to come home to a piece of paradise...open that guitar case take one gander and all the stresses of the day disappear and ya just play. Who wants to open the case to a satin and lament that they shouldn't have cheaped out and got the gloss one instead? It may sound vain and subjective, but it's true. Economists call this one's maximum propensity to consume...do ya remember Christopher Guest talking about his '59 Les Paul in "Spinal Tap"?  
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: crescent on June 15, 2012, 12:35:58 AM
Quote from: Mr_LV19E on June 12, 2012, 12:43:42 PM
Hog, Rosewood is for sissies. 
Interesting never thought wood made the man  :?.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: Mr_LV19E on June 15, 2012, 10:45:42 AM
Quote from: crescent on June 15, 2012, 12:35:58 AM
Interesting never thought wood made the man  :?.

Never met a man without wood.
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: ducktrapper on June 15, 2012, 11:12:44 AM
Quote from: crescent on June 15, 2012, 12:35:58 AM
Interesting never thought wood made the man  :?.

Wood makes the child.  :whistling:
Title: Re: Why would someone choose an 09 over an 03?
Post by: unclrob on June 15, 2012, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Mr_LV19E on June 15, 2012, 10:45:42 AM
Never met a man without wood.
Quote from: ducktrapper on June 15, 2012, 11:12:44 AM
Wood makes the child.  :whistling:





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