For personal reasons I was about to list my L-09 Madagascar for sale last week, when I noticed something I'd never seen before. My luthier/repair person told me it was a finish shrinkage problem, but to keep an eye on it. There seems to be no break in the finish, just a winkle. Anyone ever have this problem? So how do I present this for sale now besides being honest? Guess I'll be taking a $ hit for this issue.
L-09 Madagascar (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v438/dave42/2007%20Larrivee%20L-09%20Custom/)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/dave42/2007%20Larrivee%20L-09%20Custom/Larriveefinish2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/dave42/2007%20Larrivee%20L-09%20Custom/Larriveefinish1.jpg)
It appears to me to go deeper than the finish. Can you get a good luck at the inside of the affected area using a mirror?
I haven't tried, but will next string change. My repair people told me that since there was no apparent break in the finish, just a winkle, to just take a picture for reference and keep an eye on it. They did not look inside. If it becomes obviously a crack, action will be needed of course. This guitar has always been kept in an environment with 48-53% humidity. Go figure.
Quote from: dave42 on October 23, 2011, 06:02:10 PM
...............This guitar has always been kept in an environment with 48-53% humidity. Go figure...........
If it does turn out to be a crack, I'm wondering if there is any possibilty it got dropped or banged sometime in the past when it was in somebody elses hands and you weren't around? Just a thought.
And yes, full disclosure and honesty is always the best policy in my books, for what it's worth. So good on ya for that.
Kurt
From the picture it looks like more than a finish issue to me. It could certainly be repaired as to not be felt to the touch (and probably not noticed without knowing it was there).
I would certainly disclose it to any perspective buyer.
Just to make it clear, of course I'd disclose this issue! I'd expect the same if I were a buyer. :) It's still a wonderful sounding instrument.
Is Madagascar more prone to this kind of random things happening to it?
Quote from: dave42 on October 23, 2011, 10:54:01 PM
Is Madagascar more prone to this kind of random things happening to it?
MR like BR is stable when dry, but can crack somewhat easy with great changes in humidity. Both are considered less stable than IR
Quote from: dave42 on October 23, 2011, 05:03:50 PM
................... So how do I present this for sale now besides being honest? Guess I'll be taking a $ hit for this issue...........................
Dave42,
It was this part of you original post that I was commenting on. I certainly did not mean to offend and apologize if I did so.
Kurt
Dave is that right on a grain line?It looks more like a crack of some sort or a grain split.I know that BR has this issue but I'm not as formilar with MR.BR use to get lots of filler because of grain seperation as the blacker area of the wood was the weakest area of the wood.If it were me I'd have it repaired but still disclose because its probally uglier then then it is anything else which would drive people away and if it would pretty up with a finish touch up it wouldn't be much of an issue.
The tailblock is glued right across that area - Larrivee uses a piece of baltic birch ply for that, so if it is a crack, it is one that was in the side prior to the sides getting glued up. I'd sincerely doubt that it is a structural issue at all - but I'd put a bright light in there and shine it at that area to see if any light gets through. If a bit does, I would glue a small patch over it, maybe even just a piece of cloth, and it should be good for the life of the guitar - You can possibly have the finish touched up to make it invisible, but I wouldn't.
Disclose it, just as you should any and all info you have on the instrument, but I would not feel it is much of an issue unless you are only selling to collectors - Anyone who doesn't like it can go find another MR L-09 -
I saw something similar on a new solid body guitar once, which in that case was definitely not a crack. Looks to me like maybe the grain wasn't filled properly. Wouldn't that qualify as a manufacturing defect (warranty)?
I think you should just sell it to me for $100 and I'll just live with it.
Quote from: dave42 on October 23, 2011, 05:03:50 PM
My luthier/repair person told me it was a finish shrinkage problem, but to keep an eye on it. There seems to be no break in the finish, just a winkle. Anyone ever have this problem?
I think he is right. And yes but not exactly.
My LV-19 had some finish shrinkage on the back which took the form of a overall dulling of the finish and tiny pin holes in the finish. Because it was like this when it was delivered to me new I returned it to the store I bought it from and they sent it back to the factory. The factory re-polished it and sent it back. Due to the fact you've had it for awhile I'm sure it is not covered by warranty as Larrivee clearly states that finish issues are not covered under the limited warranty.
All that being said I think it is a non issue. If it bothers you I would just have it repaired. It seems like it would be pretty easy to fill and finesse to where it was not visible.
If it can be repaired without it showing and it is not a structural issue I see no reason to mention it during the sale unless you feel you need to. Or have the before and after pics to show potential customers but only mention it to serious inquiries.
Unfortunately with the market the way it is and the huge supply of guitars for sale, a lot of buyers shy away from anything that is not perfect and expect little flaws like this to cut the price in half. Certainly mention it in the "for sale" ad if you don't have it fixed though (which I know you would, just stating the obvious for anyone looking for similar advice down the road during a search).
Hi,
Kurt, No offense taken.. just trying to be clear from my end... all good! :)
Yes, it does run the direction of the grain. The grain is not too straight on this instrument, but yes, it runs with it. Even kinda stops at one point and takes up again an eighth inch lower. The pics are the only ones that show this thing. It was hard to get good pics of it.
It is a raised ridge. If you look real hard, you can see the slightest thing starting to happen on the other side... it mirrors the placement of the ridge in the pics. Don't even ask for pics of that... impossible.
I could live with it, even if it were to turn out to be a crack and then repaired. There's a personal thing with this guitar I'd rather not get into... that's the reason I was thinking about selling it. Otherwise, I'd never sell it ( It has that red sitka spruce top). But I'd want this diagnosed before even trying to sell in this market.
Looks like a crack to me. How long have you had the guitar?
It's a 2007 model that was given to me (new) in Feb 2008.
My Larrivee L-09 Madagascar's story. (http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=20127.0)
Hi
I have an OM-09MR, and it has exactly the finish issue Mr. LV_19E described, a dulling of the finish with tiny pinholes. I did not bother to have it sent back to the factory since I am in Europe and that would take a long time. It also has what seems to be some sort of 'sinking' of the finish in the grain in that area. Could it have something to do with flat sawn wood? I bought the instrument in December 2008, and it appears to be stable. But I do admit, it's an area I often inspect, just to make sure it is stable. I does not seem to affect the guitar at all.
Dave, be sure to get a good look inside. I have seen some blemish/defects in RW that show up where there is no finish as a darker pitted area. If you can put a light, a mirror, and then a camera inside to take a picture. Then send the pic to Larrivee. If it's a matter of the RW being defective it may be repaired under warranty.
It looks natural to me. And no break in the finish? I wouldn't be surprised if Tadol was right. There all along. It wouldn't bother me from what I can tell but I'm funny like that. More interested in sound than percieved looks. Actually cool charactor if there all along. Ha. Make sure its stable for sure. I bet it is.
Quote from: dave42 on October 23, 2011, 05:03:50 PM
Anyone ever have this problem?
We had this happen on the top of a baby grand piano we had refinished. It was redone at no cost but occurred again later. Only noticeable when the light hits it but kind of disappointing given what we paid. That said, we never even notice it now.
The wrinkle is raised, right? That sounds like the wood has shrunk a bit (possibly squeezing some finish out of a grain line).