Hi guys ( and gals)  Got a question about other folks experience with Larry necks.  I have read in this forum that Larry's rarely have neck angle problems. After 6 or so years of looking at them it seems to me that I often see Larrivee guitars from the 90's that seem to dip at the 14th fret on. A straight edge across the neck will  pivot at the 14 or 15 fret. It looks like the neck past the neck joint dips as well as does the upper bout. That is, it seems like the upper bout has sunk some, causing a rise of the strings. In these older Larry's I've noted that to keep the string height low enough the saddle has  been lowered quite a bit. Some of these guitars have been owned by folks that I know treat them as they should be treated, so dehydration is not the problem. Another thing I have noted on this era Larry is a number of bridges that are thicker than my Martin D-35 from the same era.  I measured a D10 bridge that was a good 1/8 in higher than the Martin.  I am no guitar tech and I may be way off but I was hoping to get some input from you guys out there that know more than I. Thanks docrach1

I have 99 D-02 and that has not happened.   :bgrin:

MY 98 D-09 DID EXACTLY THAT. THE PROBLEM WAS DEHYDRATION, FIRST IN THE DEALER STORE AND LATER IN MY LIVING ROOM.  I Caught it after a year or so, when I smartened up and Larrivee told me how to rehydrate it properly and it was corrected by about 90%.  It took about 3months of rehydration but Its barely noticeable now.  Sunkenneckitis is invariably a humidity problem.
Dave

The hump at the 14th is not a Larrivee problem, it is a dry guitar problem, usually accompanied by a corrugated and dipped soundboard with (sharp) protruding frets on the sides of the finger board.
I'm sure there are some dehydrated Larrivees around too like neglected kids and pets.

The main flaw I usually see with the neck angle on Larrivee guitars is that they are set to shallow from the door. On a lot of brand new Larrivees, in all the price ranges, you will see guitars with unacceptable action and NO saddle left to make improvement.

For me, the neck angle is best gauged by where the height, or position on the bridge, to which the fingerboard plane projects.  That is, if you laid a long straight-edge on the fingerboard, with the relief dialed flat, does it project to the top of the bridge.  Some people feel like the fingerboard extension *should* have a bit of fall-away; for ex, Collings describes the fall-away as built in intentionally. 

Operationally, when I pick up a guitar, I want to see a flat fingerboard plane through the neck joint region, no hump or high spot, low-moderate action (<1/8"),  and a healthy, ~1/8" saddle height that will allow later adjustment..

What I never want to see is a new guitar in a store with a short saddle.  My observation is this is not common, but I do see it sometimes when I pick up a new Larrivee, and I did own two Larrivee guitars that I felt had this symptom.

Quote from: GA-ME on April 12, 2011, 11:30:32 AM
The main flaw I usually see with the neck angle on Larrivee guitars is that they are set to shallow from the door. On a lot of brand new Larrivees, in all the price ranges, you will see guitars with unacceptable action and NO saddle left to make improvement.

Gotta say ditto to this.

Quote from: GA-ME on April 12, 2011, 11:30:32 AM
On a lot of brand new Larrivees, in all the price ranges, you will see guitars with unacceptable action and NO saddle left to make improvement.

That is true for one of mine.

Quote from: rikstar on April 13, 2011, 07:45:09 PM
low-moderate action (<1/8"),  and a healthy, ~1/8" saddle height that will allow later adjustment..

Which frets should be at < 1/8" action? All of my guitars have it from the first fret till about the 9 or 10 th frets but beyond that they have about 3/16" action.

1/8'' saddle is not healthy.

Quote from: acousticphd on April 12, 2011, 05:30:38 PM


Operationally, when I pick up a guitar, I want to see a flat fingerboard plane through the neck joint region, no hump or high spot, low-moderate action (<1/8"),  and a healthy, ~1/8" saddle height that will allow later adjustment..

What I never want to see is a new guitar in a store with a short saddle.  My observation is this is not common, but I do see it sometimes when I pick up a new Larrivee, and I did own two Larrivee guitars that I felt had this symptom.

I was asking "guitarphd"  which frets should have <1/8 " action...certainly the first frets are going to have lower action than higher frets. As far as the bridge ,my ovation which is set up very well, has less than 1/8 " of bridge height. My L10 is right at 1/8 ". Both play very well so it seems that bridge height can vary and still be right for that particular guitar.

  Sure it can play well at 1/8', but when the top pulls up a little you will need to shave the bridge to keep any playability. The lowest saddle height acceptable is 1/8". After that start ramping the bridge and lowering frets etc.
   Or just reset the neck.

Okay. I get it. What about the action? What is considered good and should the action be higher on the higher frets?

Quote from: rikstar on April 13, 2011, 09:29:16 PM
Okay. I get it. What about the action? What is considered good and should the action be higher on the higher frets?

I like mine as low as I can make it without buzz. It will be a little higher as you approach the neck joining the body, and as some guitars age the top will sink in front of the sound hole making a bit higher action on the last frets. If you strum a lot and have a heavy attack you need a higher action. Finger style can be lower if you don't mind a rattle or buzz occasionally.

Thanks for the info Danny. There have been truss rod discussions on the forum that say not to adjust action with the truss rod but it seems logical to do it that way as long as the nut is not over tightened. Would you agree?
I found a good article on truss rods. I'll post a link.
Rick

Quote from: rikstar on April 13, 2011, 09:43:33 PM
Thanks for the info Danny. There have been truss rod discussions on the forum that say not to adjust action with the truss rod but it seems logical to do it that way as long as the nut is not over tightened. Would you agree?
I found a good article on truss rods. I'll post a link.
Rick

I usually never adjust mine. Except for just a smidge.

Quote from: rikstar on April 13, 2011, 09:43:33 PM
Thanks for the info Danny. There have been truss rod discussions on the forum that say not to adjust action with the truss rod but it seems logical to do it that way as long as the nut is not over tightened. Would you agree?
I found a good article on truss rods. I'll post a link.
Rick

Adjusting the truss rod may raise or lower the action slightly but that is no what its for, it is for adjusting the bow in the neck. Ideally the neck should be flat or have a very slight up bow, so if you try to lower the action by tightening the truss rod you would have back bow and the strings would probably be buzzing on the frets. If your tightening adjustment didn't cause buzzing then it probably had to much up bow to begin with.
I adjust the truss rod on a new guitar after it gets adjusted to the humidity level in my house, after that only if I change string gauge or I'm going to level the frets. For leveling the frets you want the fretboard perfectly flat and after you're done you won't need but a touch of up bow because you won't have any high or low frets. High or low frets or frets with grooves (divot's) in them is a reason for needing more up bow to prevent buzzing. But really you should level the frets as any other method of removing the buzz is a compromise in playability.

Larrivee has used a thicker bridge to allow the user to adjust the set up to their liking via a bridge profile. When I asked what a profile was I was told that the bridge material is removed to allow for more saddle adjustment.

Quote from: Waxer on July 02, 2011, 01:12:03 PM
Larrivee has used a thicker bridge to allow the user to adjust the set up to their liking via a bridge profile. When I asked what a profile was I was told that the bridge material is removed to allow for more saddle adjustment.

Described by Matt in the 2nd post of this thread: http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=37064.0