I see a lot of acoustics ( including my L09 ) with the strap pin located on the actual playing side/treble part of the neck, near the 12th fret

IMO this has to be the absolute worst place to put a strap; as it gets in the way when you are playing up the neck? not only the pin sticking out, but also the strap wrapped around the neck too

doesn't the back of the heel make much more sense?

what's the reasoning here?


thx!

aha, you can see it here:

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b67/bbolero/6107h2n_20.jpg)

I never had a problem with that. For me, I've found that the guitar "hangs" best when the pin is there.

I have an older guitar with the pin in the back of the heel like you described. It just doesn't position
the guitar in a nice way. It tends to sag away from me, and the strap is more likely to slip off.

I know there are some technical recommendations from various people that say that the way
yours is is also safer for the woods.

Beautiful axe, by the way!

There are a few good reasons to put it there:

1) That's where most people put it (the old "monkey see, monkey do" thing...)

2) The location acts as a natural strap lock. The weight of the guitar pushes into the strap, keeping it secure.

3) Most people, regardless of size or shape, find it keeps the guitar balanced and in a good playing position.

The options:

1) Back of heel... while this places the strap pin out of sight, and away from the left hand position, for some people it feels unbalanced. The weight of the guitar is also working to pull away from the strap, so it is not the most secure way of keeping the strap in place.

2) Upper bout face, just above the neck... this is the preferred location for some players, especially those who sit while they play. The strap is secured by the downward weight of the instrument and is out of the way of the left hand. This is more commonly seen on some brands, and one that Doc Watson uses on his Gallagher. If you decide to locate the strap pin in this location make sure you have a small wood block placed inside the body to screw in to (the thin side of the instrument cannot support this alone).

3) String tied to the headstock... very common practice of musicians during the "Great Folk Scare" of the 60s and yodeling cowboys. JCL has also stated that it is his favourite location. Those that use this method often say it is the most comfortable and holds the guitar in the perfect position, for them. Others think it just looks old school and cool:) And before you ask, no it will not twist or harm the neck...

ah, nice explanations, thx!!


well I just pulled it out, and luckily the knob was never overtightened: there is just a small hole there, and no ugly impression of the bottom flange of a knob, which I have seen on many guitars  :crying:

I think I'll go with option 3) from now on

cheers

ummagumma,

I'm with you, I hate the strap pin there, I always found it to be in the way when I play the upper frets.  For what a pin does, it is the best location.  I had an L-09FM with a pin there and removed it like you did.  For about $20, a luthier filled the hole with ebony and glossed it, when he was done it just looked like a knot in the wood or something and the finish looked perfect.  It's something to think about if you want it to look nice where the hole is.

May I add that placing the screw into the heel plate seems to me a weak spot. There's just not much wood surrounding the screw to provide strength. Perhaps a bit more likely to create a crack. (I'm a carpenter, fwiw) If I had to use that spot, I'd make sure the hole I drilled was not much smaller than the screw. my 2cnts.

Good point!

Quote from: broKen on December 04, 2010, 02:28:49 PM
May I add that placing the screw into the heel plate seems to me a weak spot. There's just not much wood surrounding the screw to provide strength. Perhaps a bit more likely to create a crack. (I'm a carpenter, fwiw) If I had to use that spot, I'd make sure the hole I drilled was not much smaller than the screw. my 2cnts.

Larrivee, Martin, and Taylor all advise against that spot, for likely the reasons you point out. I bet there's a pretty high percent of cracks/problems that occur from this spot.

I know of at least one guitar maker that drills and inserts a dowel through that section of the heel during construction. I always though it was to give the heel a little extra stiffness and resistance to cracking, but maybe this is another good reason for that feature.

For some reason, the strap button on the treble side doesn't bother my fretting hand at all. I guess it could if poorly positioned, but for me it just fits neatly into the center of my palm. I use both the peghead tie and heel button, depending on how the individual guitar balances, whether someone before me already installed the button, or whether I am (for various reasons) willing to drill on that guitar.

I install wherever I'm asked to put it.If they ask me my prefferance its easy for me I sit and play and don't use a strap.Even on electrics I sit.I will say that the button on my bass is on the heel its a Guild Starfire,kinda looks like a ES335 for those that don't know.None of the install spots if done right are weak area's.

Quote from: unclrob on December 04, 2010, 10:39:53 PM
None of the install spots if done right are weak area's.

I agree.  I have had many guitars and have never had a problem with a strap button on the heel.  I currently have four guitars that I purchased that way.  My ES335 was that way as well.  The treble side of the neck is my least favorite place.   

Quote from: ummagumma on December 04, 2010, 06:13:57 AM
I see a lot of acoustics ( including my L09 ) with the strap pin located on the actual playing side/treble part of the neck, near the 12th fret

IMO this has to be the absolute worst place to put a strap; as it gets in the way when you are playing up the neck? not only the pin sticking out, but also the strap wrapped around the neck too

doesn't the back of the heel make much more sense?

what's the reasoning here?


thx!

I don't know of anyone who actually grips around the heel when playing on the 12th or 14th frets and above, use your thumb for a guide, but that's all. I have a few guitars with strap buttons in the treble side and have never had any problems. I just recieved a used Larrivee OM-03 with the button straight in the back of the heel, which I think IS the worst location possible :mad:    . I removed it almost immediatly and filled the hole with some off white bridge pin material, not invisable, but "well looked after" as Frank Ford would say.
These days I prefer the "old school" headstock tie with the planet waves quick release tie-works great, hangs balanced, and looks cool!!  :ph34r:

That's where it is on my Larry and I like it there.  I find tied on to the headstock straps are more in the way for open chord strumming, than the strap in the way of the upper frets.  Then again, mines an L-body, so I've got a little more clearance than a 12-fret body would have.

-Scott

I've never like the ES-335 button location. I have 3 electrics set up that way, and it's OK for an electric, I guess, though it wouldn't have been my choice. I certainly wouldn't want it there for anything deeper. I think it balances better on the treble side of the heel.

I've read that some folks don't like the heal position because it may put unwanted pressure on that point of the guitar when in it's case.

I'm a treble side person.

Quote from: pastorharry on December 05, 2010, 12:32:28 AM
I don't know of anyone who actually grips around the heel when playing on the 12th or 14th frets and above, use your thumb for a guide, but that's all.....

These days I prefer the "old school" headstock tie with the planet waves quick release tie-works great, hangs balanced, and looks cool!!  :ph34r:

  I don't actually grip there, but my palm & thumb traverse directly over the area, and having a BOLT sticking out of an otherwise smooth & sculpted surface ( amplified by a strap wrapped around the neck, to also get in the way ) is a distraction, and very annoying

no drama though, at least it's removeable ( and has been removed!! bwahahaha...evil laugh )

chacun a ses gout...horses for courses....one man's yogurt is another man's rotten milk...etc  :guitar


good thread though, I learned a couple things...the point about pressure while in the case is a good one

I'm going traditional with the headstock strap tie-on though