I have mentioned in a previous post that I am shopping for Dread to add to my guitars. I have this very strong feeling that I am supposed to have a Martin. I have played a D-18, D-28. HD-28, DCPAE, and a D-42. All very good but none "spoke" to me even slightly (not even a whisper). Played numerous Taylors, almost all better than the Martins. Played a Breedlove Revival (dread) and Breedlove Fusion (no where near a dread). The Fusion is the best playing/sounding of the bunch. I'm waiting for my local dealer to receive a Larrivee D-60 before I make a purchase and there is still a possibility of a custom order D-10. What is this feeling towards Martin, great guitars, excellent service to their customers and a tradition that dates almost forever. I am yet to play a Martin that says "take me home with you"! I have heard a lot of talk about Huss And Dalton, all of it very complimentary. Never seen one much less played one. Also could someone explain compound radius (AS TO GUITAR NECKS) to me. A D-10 has a 17 to 21 radius (same as my LV-10) a D-60 has a 16 to 21 radius. Also both D-10 and D-60 have a slightly narrower neck than my LV. Trying hard to become an educated consumer before spending any more $$$. Please feel free to munch and dunk while you think about this subject(s). :donut :donut :donut :donut2 :coffee
I forgot to mention that after shopping and playing various brands/models and returning home, the Lv convinces ne that Larrivee is very hard to better.
Compound means thats the curve of the fingerboard is say 17" from the nut to the 12 fret,then from the 12 fret foward is 21" radious.As for not finding a Martin thats speaks to you all I can say is I've handled hundreds of them and out of all that 6 come to mind that I'd own.Find a playing partner is a tough job.Playing all those guitars,spending countless hour's in music store's,OH the Humanity.Only kidding.I've handle a lot of brands and always come back to the fact that Larrivee's are the guitars for me.Ya there have been the odd Gibson,Guild and that one Olson I played 20 years ago but thats it.Oh ya there was a sunburst Taylor dread that I liked but other then that I'm not that impressed with whats being offered from the guitar community.
Thanks unclrob. you always seem to have your finger on the pulse of what is happening. Have you played any of the Breedlove guitars yet? I liked the two I played better than Gallagher, Collings, Martin or Taylor. Kinda curious about Guild.
I've played a few Breedlove's can't remember the modals.Though nice enough guitars,good quality and all,they have never spoke to me.Guilds are so different from everything else,sounds like Larrivee's when you think about not like anything else.Guilds are built like tanks.I can use any guage of string I want,no limits like a few I've played.They don't sound like Martin,Gibson or Taylors and most of the newish breeds are based on that vintage Martin and Gibson sound and Taylors are way too mid rangey.I like the Guild bass responce because its not overpowering like Martins,not jangley like Gibson and way fuller freq resonce then Taylor.Guilds have always been able to mimic at least in the jumbo's many other style of guitars.I can pull a very nice archtop guitar tone out of my JF30,pull off the most delicate fingerstyle tone.Drop tunings are so lush,like my Larrivee's.I could go on but no reason to go there.I haven't played any of the new one's from Conn. yet both of my Guilds are from the late 80's.I will add that I've never played a Guild that I haven't wanted to own just based on the tone no matter what condition the guitar is in,just like Larrivee's.
Among the guitars, you mentioned, I honestly think the D10, and especially D60 will shine if you want a loud dread with great bass that retains tonal balance.
But to be completely honest, it appears you can afford (or at least consider) a higher-end guitar. Try to play a Santa Cruz D/PW and a Collings D1 or D2H before deciding...I think Larrivee is in the same league as those two brands, but those dreads bring a lot of firepower. My guess is that the Larrivee dreads would be better all-round options, but the SCGC and Collings will be snappier and louder, if you are playing bluegrass or just want a powerful singer/soundwriter axe.
Do most feel the difference between Glenn's L and a D with same wood makeup would be that significant :?
:cheers
The dreads that stand out in my memory have mostly been Adirondack, and few Euro and Sitka.
I'd recommend trying a D-18GE before you wright off Martin. I'd also look at H&D's Traditional series which can be had in Adi. SCGC makes a lot of nice dreads - D/PW, Tony Rice and their slope dread.
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on October 26, 2010, 11:57:39 AM
Do most feel the difference between Glenn's L and a D with same wood makeup would be that significant :?
No, construction style and execution is the most significant factor in setting one guitar apart from another when you're dealing with somewhat similar body sizes.
Quote from: LawDogStrgsAttach on October 26, 2010, 11:49:46 AM
Among the guitars, you mentioned, I honestly think the D10, and especially D60 will shine if you want a loud dread with great bass that retains tonal balance.
But to be completely honest, it appears you can afford (or at least consider) a higher-end guitar. Try to play a Santa Cruz D/PW and a Collings D1 or D2H before deciding...I think Larrivee is in the same league as those two brands, but those dreads bring a lot of firepower. My guess is that the Larrivee dreads would be better all-round options, but the SCGC and Collings will be snappier and louder, if you are playing bluegrass or just want a powerful singer/soundwriter axe.
You'll find it very hard to beat a Larrivee. In addition to the Santa Cruz and Collings offerings (both EXCELLENT guitars) I'd like to throw Bourgeois and Huss and Dalton in the mix. If you want to really kick start the economy you might check out the Merrill line, too.
I gave up on Martin when I sold my D18 after 15 years or so. That was back in the day when I only HAD one guitar. It was OK but nothing special. The best guitar I ever let get away was a JF-30 Guild (Maple jumbo). I now own a Collings OM and an H&D 00-sp. The OM is a solid, good sounding guitar but the 00-sp is a banjo killer!!! And my simple Larrivee L-03 keeps pace with both of them.
Like Unclrob, I've found very few Martins worthy of the trip home (1 in fact). The only one I really liked was an OM-28 Marquis (Adi top, rosewood). Even used it was a lot more than I paid for my Collings but that's it as far as Martin is concerned.
Good luck in your search and I really think you'll end up with a Larrivee.
f
I also agree with Jeremy on the Martin D18GE.
But you should also give Jason at Notable Gutiars a call if you want an heirloom quality dread that is around the price range you are flirting with: Notable Guitars (http://www.notableguitars.com)
He has a D09 and D60 in Brazilian - the price will shock you, and braz is getting rare, and this is top shelf braz.
I had a very similar experience when I was looking for a top shelf dread. I just could not find a Martin that got to me, and Taylors were not even close. Then I discoverd Larrivee. I have had my D10 for about 5 years now and I never tire of it. As others have said, Santa Cruz, H & d, Collings and a few others make great dreads too. But you will not be sidappointed if you wind up with a Larrivee dread.
Quote from: 247hoopsfan on October 26, 2010, 12:48:51 PM
I had a very similar experience when I was looking for a top shelf dread. I just could not find a Martin that got to me, and Taylors were not even close. Then I discoverd Larrivee. I have had my D10 for about 5 years now and I never tire of it. As others have said, Santa Cruz, H & d, Collings and a few others make great dreads too. But you will not be sidappointed if you wind up with a Larrivee dread.
:+1:
:+1:
Even though it's my least favorite Larrivee I own, it still kills. A Larrivee dread will not dissapoint.
Many thanks to all who have answered. I emailed Notable about the D-60 BZ but I suspect even the street price will case my blood pressure to rise. Huss and Dalton keeps coming up and I really want to try one. Tried a used Santa Cruz Tony Rice at my local Larrivee dealer and like Martin didn't speak to me. I am feeling more likely as time and tests go by that another Larry is my future even if it is similar to my L. Has anyone else noticed how ironic it is that the spell check on this program doesn't recognize Larrivee?
Try a Stonebridge as well. I just bought a DS33 and it's great. Had an Larrivee D03R and sold it (mistake), and currently own a Gibson AJ (great guitar but it may be moved since I have the Stonebridge). Great deal on a mahogany Stonebridge on AGF; I don't think you'll get a better dread for $1500.
Quote from: jeremy3220 on October 26, 2010, 12:09:14 PM
The dreads that stand out in my memory have mostly been Adirondack, and few Euro and Sitka.
I'd recommend trying a D-18GE before you wright off Martin. I'd also look at H&D's Traditional series which can be had in Adi. SCGC makes a lot of nice dreads - D/PW, Tony Rice and their slope dread.
No, construction style and execution is the most significant factor in setting one guitar apart from another when you're dealing with somewhat similar body sizes.
I was thinking the same thing, the D-18GE is a notch up. I would compare to the Larrivee D-50. Also, have you ever considered commissioning a guitar. At your price point, there are several qualified luthiers who can build you something special. Glen at Green Mountain is outstanding, although I'm not sure about his schedule. Here's a link to my build thread if you are interested.
http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=31383.0
Quote from: jeremy3220 on October 26, 2010, 12:09:14 PM
I'd recommend trying a D-18GE before you wright off Martin.
:rolleye: great spelling jerk.
Quote from: jeremy3220 on October 26, 2010, 06:14:35 PM
:rolleye: great spelling jerk.
Jeremy,
You got me on that one. I was just about ready to let you have it for being uncouth!!! Nice to know you can laugh at yourself!!!
Way to go.
f
Quote from: ffinke on October 26, 2010, 09:11:43 PM
Jeremy,
You got me on that one. I was just about ready to let you have it for being uncouth!!! Nice to know you can laugh at yourself!!!
Way to go.
f
:ph34r:
I admit I did a double-take when I saw "wright" in your post Jeremy. Made me smile a bit, knowing that if you were to read your own post later you'd see the mistake and rectify it. I'm glad that you didn't just go back and edit your post to eliminate the mistake but chose, instead, to chastise yourself over it. A sense of humor is important these days.
rite, right, write, wright, who cares... we get the point anyhow :bgrin:
But to the point made by the original poster, and to agree with many replies... can't go wrong with a Larrivee dread. Even though I'm primarily a hog kinda guy I'd love to have a D-09 or D-10... perhaps a D-60 instead .. but I do like the rosewood dreadnaught sound. Love my L-10 more and more all the time since it's such a totally different sound than my small bodied hogs.
T the P
Just trying to learn more and to keep this thread interesting. There has been a suggestion and an agreement that a dread may be so close to my existing L that the dread might be a little redundant. I am trying (at the rate of one per year) to acquire a few real nice guitars. What other body sizes would be an asset to a collection? I play about 70% fingerstyle (Jim Croce, John Prine, Bob Dylan, fingerstyle blues and such). The other 30 % is flatpicking (bluegrass, old rock and roll and vintage folk). Would be very interested in body shape/sizes wood combos and brand suggestions.
Glenn
, a Larrivee D shape will, in fact, be very similar sounding to your LV. If you are looking for a good fingerpicking machine I would strongly recommend that you try out a 000-50 or 000-60. Wider nut, large soundhole, 12 fret neck.
These are perfect for fingerpicking or medium-heavy strumming. A cheaper alternative would be an OM style.
Try getting a D in a different wood then the L,this will give you a different voice.I would add an OM.Also don't limit a body style to playing style.I grew up playing dreads and played every style on it as I also do now on the bodies I have.Some sound better in alt. tunings then others as do some songs.I guess I'm saying look for more voice's over body style's.If you have a mahogany L get a rosewood dread.Though right now out of all my acoustics only one is a rosewood the rest are maple.Now that I've just typed this I see that what I need to do is add a mahogany with a spruce top as I do have an all mahogany Gibson B15 which I'll be using for slide work.
Quote from: Glennd on October 27, 2010, 09:01:40 AM
Just trying to learn more and to keep this thread interesting. There has been a suggestion and an agreement that a dread may be so close to my existing L that the dread might be a little redundant.
The L is basically a dread. Yeah, it's more round but it's actually larger than a Martin dread (both upper and lower bouts) and has a longer scale. Larrivee could have called it a slope shoulder dread or jumbo (like a J-45) and no one would have questioned it. More important though is playing enough guitars so you can form your own educated opinion.
On a side note: I think the same phenomena occurs with guitar buyers as music listeners - they like/buy what they are familiar with. It's fine if someone wants to buy similar guitars but when I hear they tried eight different top brands and ended up with almost the same thing because they say nothing else was as good... I know it isn't because they weren't as good. I also know people have different motives for buying guitars and that makes a big difference in what guitars they end up with.
To each his own I guess. I recently played a room full of Larrivees and not one would touch the Martin OM18V, OM28V or the D18GE sound-wise in the same room. In fairness, the Martins were about 50% more $$$ than the Larrivees. But compared to the Larrivees, the sound lept from those three Martins.
The same holds true at home. My D-03 and OM-05 are sweet sounding, but they are definately a step below my Martins (that cost more), especially in volume where the Larrivees are topping out when the Martins hit mid stride.
Some would argue that the comparison isn't fair due to the cost differences. However my experience playing more expensive Larrivees suggests more money buys bling and prettier wood, but not differences in sound.
while you're listing Martin dreads, don't forget the all-hog D-15, an incredible, world-class dread for a very low price....I think they may now have a D-15M, which would be guaranteed mahogany as opposed to taking your chances and possibly getting sapele (if you even care, sapele being, after all, a solid mahogany-family wood).....i love the chocolate Martin dread....
I notice that you didn't try a D-35, HD-35 or D-21 Special but after reading the posts, it doesn't seem like Martins are your cup of tea. Here's a clip of Jim Croce's lead guitarist playing a D-35 w/ BRW back and sides here but keep in mind that the sound technology was significantly different in 1972 and 73 when this was recorded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2iS8XctJKo
Quote from: teh on October 27, 2010, 10:48:42 PM
I notice that you didn't try a D-35, HD-35 or D-21 Special but after reading the posts, it doesn't seem like Martins are your cup of tea. Here's a clip of Jim Croce's lead guitarist playing a D-35 w/ BRW back and sides here but keep in mind that the sound technology was significantly different in 1972 and 73 when this was recorded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2is8XctJKo
Thanks for the link, I'm a big fan of Jim and Maury, really like the way they compliment each other. I haven't tried any of the Martins you mention simply because they have been unavailable. I found a Martin D-21 Jim Croce Brazilian (JCB) in new almost unplayed condition for a price that was more than my first home. Its not that I have any thing against Martins, I honestly feel like everyone is supposed to like them. They are after all great instruments and the company would never have survived (much less prospered) if they didn't have a quality product and good customer service. I feel like Martin is to the guitar world what Harley Davidson (I have a 2003 Road King Classic) is to the motorcycle world. I have played a few Larrivees that didn't really impress. I am curious about the Taylor 8 string baritone, but have yet to play a Taylor that I wanted to take home. The only two guitars that really appealed to me in my search so far have been Breedloves, a Revival (dread) and a Fusion as I mentioned earlier. If you are following this thread and think I am confused and moving in several directions at once you are correct. I am going to expand my search to more than just dreads and simply look for a quality guitar that wants to go home with me! I will be on vacation most of the month of December and will most likely plan a little travel time to play as many brands and models as possible. Many thanks to all who have made suggestions as that gives me a direction.
I am also looking for a dread to own along side an L. I agree with an earlier comment that the L basically is a dread variation. I actually got a store assistant to play an L then a Larrivee D while I had my eyes closed. When I admitted to myself that I couldn't actually tell them apart in any significant way I focused on finding the right L body simply because I have large hands and fingers so the wider nut appealed. It wasn't the volume or the sound. I bought an L-09.
Now I've found a dread I like. Morgan DR. Played it at a store in Orangeville, Ontario while waiting between hockey games at a tournament. It has that Larrivee tone and quality and feel. But more of the "dread" sound. It is like a hybrid Martin-Larrivee. Made in Canada. Bascially the same price as a d-09/d-10. They have a website.
Hi Peter,
If you are talking about a Morgan (http://morganguitars.com/), I have a Morgan Concert Cutaway (nearly identical to a C10) (http://toonz.ca/guitars/morgan/) and it is a daily player alongside my Larrivées. David Ianonne, founder of Morgan Guitars apprenticed with Larrivée (http://morganguitars.com/History.aspx) and that is apparent from his work.
Fine guitars.
Here is a link to the Morgan DR series (http://morganguitars.com/guitars.aspx?pagename=DR) - Is this what you played?
Quote from: jeremy3220 on October 27, 2010, 12:34:17 PM
The L is basically a dread. Yeah, it's more round but it's actually larger than a Martin dread (both upper and lower bouts) and has a longer scale. Larrivee could have called it a slope shoulder dread or jumbo (like a J-45) and no one would have questioned it. More important though is playing enough guitars so you can form your own educated opinion.
On a side note: I think the same phenomena occurs with guitar buyers as music listeners - they like/buy what they are familiar with. It's fine if someone wants to buy similar guitars but when I hear they tried eight different top brands and ended up with almost the same thing because they say nothing else was as good... I know it isn't because they weren't as good. I also know people have different motives for buying guitars and that makes a big difference in what guitars they end up with.
I have a Martin D-35 that Ive been playing for 35 years... great sounding guitar... When I try other guitars, I realize that I'm always stacking them up against the D35, and most smaller bodied guitars just dont seem to have "enough" ... volume, bass... whatever... But I know its because of what Im used to..
Recently got a Larrivee LV-09E ... I really like it alot... Maybe because the L body
is "dread-like", I dunno. But it's a different sound, a "clearer" sound than the Martin, The D-35 has more overtones maybe... Anyway, they are different enough that Im glad to have both of them.
Rick
Quote from: ST on October 28, 2010, 04:10:16 PM
Hi Peter,
If you are talking about a Morgan (http://morganguitars.com/), I have a Morgan Concert Cutaway (nearly identical to a C10) (http://toonz.ca/guitars/morgan/) and it is a daily player alongside my Larrivées. David Ianonne, founder of Morgan Guitars apprenticed with Larrivée (http://morganguitars.com/History.aspx) and that is apparent from his work.
Fine guitars.
Here is a link to the Morgan DR series (http://morganguitars.com/guitars.aspx?pagename=DR) - Is this what you played?
Yes, it was DR series. Very similar neck to a Larrivee. Nice guitar.
I am of the opinion that the same woods between an L and D will be quite comparable. Between the two D03s I have owned, the rosewood and mahogany were substantial in tonal quality difference, so a different wood (custom or lesser expensive mahogany) may be your ticket in a Larrivee dread.
Outside of Larrivee, you owe it to yourself to get your hands on a Collings to tryout.
Glennd:
After reading your original post, it appears you and I share the same goal: To acquire and assemble a small collection of different guitars. Taking your time and doing your research is the best fomula for making the best purchase to meet your needs and wants. The gaps in my collection include a 6 string mahogany, 6 & 12 string maple (jumbo) and possibly a baritone.
The rest of this post is only my personal opinion based on playing a lot of different guitars over the past 20 years in my price range. For new guitars, I have played several Martin D-21 Specials (1 & 3/4 inch neck) and M-36 models (3 piece back, 1&11/16 neck) and I would have taken any of them home if I needed to replace my D-35 (1&11/16 neck) or OM-35 (1&3/4 neck). Generally speaking, I like the tone and playability of the Martin 15 series over the Larrivees but I give the edge on workmanship and design of Larrivee for comparably priced mahogany guitars.
I think the older Guilds are better and more consistent than the newer models (especially 12 strings) and I have not found a Gibson that I like but I am sure they are out there. I don't own a Collings, Huss&Dalton or similar guitar but they are on the upper end of my price range.
I had the opportunity to play an 8 string Taylor Baritone last month and while I found it interesting, I didn't find it interesting enough to bring home given the list price. On the flipside, my son has a Taylor 214 (All solid wood, not laminate) near the lower end of their price spectrum that is a great sounding guitar.
In closing, if you are buying new, make sure you solicit opinions about the long term value of a lifetime warranty. My 34 year old Martin (Purchased new) is in for warranty work (bridge lifting) that was covered no questions asked. Over the past 20 years, this guitar has been in for warranty work three times (curling pickguard causing hairline crack on top, loose binding, neck reset) and I have never a problem or hassle on any of the work. My son upgraded his Taylor reference above with new gold tuners and had two that were defective and Taylor sent him a complete replacement set no questions asked. Can't comment on Larrivee because I have never had to test their lifetime warranty.
I continue to be thankful to all of you who take the time to respond. It is obvious that the participants on this forum actually take the time to think and formulate an answer before responding. There is a lot of very thought provoking information here and some tips on guitars that I have not played (or even considered). Looks as if I may be doing "research" for a while. Its hard work but someone has to do it. Again: MANY THANKS :cheers