Seller claims it's Brazilian... what do you say?
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The coloring looks right. If it is Brazilian it's an awfully nice 1/4 sawn set.
From the pic, I couldn't even be sure it's rosewood. Could be, I guess.
Thats a fairly light coloured brazillian.If its a Larrivee it would say Brazillian on the label or stamped on the neck block brazilian or BZ.
You definitly need a better picture if you are going to pay a premium for BZ. Looks pretty straight grained for BZ... but could be. With only that pic, I would lean more towards Indian Rosewood.
I'm going to have to go not Brazilian.
Get the serial number and forward it to the manufacturer and see what they say.
Thanks for your input everyone. :donut :donut2 :donut :donut2 :coffee :coffee
Quote from: zpcm04 on August 11, 2010, 12:44:49 PM
Get the serial number and forward it to the manufacturer and see what they say.
In process... I'll let you know.
Here is the ad, if you want to have a look: http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-guitars-Larrivee-12-String-Guitar-W0QQAdIdZ220927596
Well friend even if its IR it appears to be a great deal tho I caution - do the deal in person don't send money as many Kijiji scams. If BR the price to me is too good to be true. Because the Git is so old I believe Larrivee has had some record keeping issues thus they may not have that info you desire either.
Good Luck
Unlikely to be Braz.
BUT. That's still a very good price for a D-09-12. I'd be tempted to buy it anyway. Interesting headstock, never seen Larrivee written sideways like that before.
Whoa! That brings back memories! I once had an Edgar Mönch classical with a Brazilian set just like that. Same yellow+brown colour; same quarter-sawn grain lines. (Mönch was Larrivee's teacher.) You'd need better focus and resolution to really call the wood, but to my eye it's definitely in the running as being Brazilian. Certainly have never seen Indian RW anywhere near that colour.
I doubt its Brazilian. Looks like a mid-80's L-09-12. Same style of scripted Larrivee logo as the recent thread on the L-07. That matches the sellers claim to have bought it 25 years ago.
Nice guitar if the neck and bridge are ok.
picture posted here for posterity.
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Oddly, to me, the back looks more like Braz, seen through the soundhole. :winkin:
The Indian RW that Larrivee was using in the early mid-80's had that look. The circa 1983 L-07 I have with the same logo (normal orientation) is very similar.
1982 on left, 1983 on right...
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Here's the reply I received from Larrivee:
Unfortunately we made a move a few years back and in the process of that move we lost our serial record from the beginning up until about 1987. Slowly we've been trying to reconstruct the database with information about owners with our older guitars. This 12 string in particular was probably built around 1982. It could be Brazilian Rosewood but I'd only be able to confirm that if I saw pictures.
So I sent the pictures, including the ones below. I'm guessing they'll say it's Indian.
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and a couple more...
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Quote from: Randy_R on August 12, 2010, 03:59:15 PM
The Indian RW that Larrivee was using in the early mid-80's had that look. The circa 1983 L-07 I have with the same logo (normal orientation) is very similar.
Randy and all.
Here's the back of my 1982-83 L07. Looks very similiar to yours, eh? So ours are both Indian Rosewood, then?
Kurt
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Brazilian sometimes looks like this.
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Quote from: dee-ten on August 12, 2010, 05:05:54 PM
Here's the reply I received from Larrivee:
Unfortunately we made a move a few years back and in the process of that move we lost our serial record from the beginning up until about 1987. Slowly we've been trying to reconstruct the database with information about owners with our older guitars. This 12 string in particular was probably built around 1982. It could be Brazilian Rosewood but I'd only be able to confirm that if I saw pictures.
So I sent the pictures, including the ones below. I'm guessing they'll say it's Indian.
Dee-ten, maybe a dumb question, but did you include the full pic of the guitar's back that you originally posted to start the thread?
Kurt
Quote from: ducktrapper on August 12, 2010, 05:38:34 PM
Brazilian sometimes looks like this.
Man oh man, how does one even tell for sure, then? And if it's that hard to tell, how significant is it in the big picture? Duck, after seeing your pic, I'm again in doubt about what mine is. Now I want mine to be Brazilian too, but I don't even know why for sure. :crying: I guess I'm mostly wondering what it is about the Brazilian that makes it so much more desirable, and why it demands a premium. Is it the rarity factor (thus collectability) mostly, the aesthetics, is there a tone advantage?
Kurt
Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on August 12, 2010, 07:48:27 PM
Man oh man, how does one even tell for sure, then? And if it's that hard to tell, how significant is it in the big picture? Duck, after seeing your pic, I'm again in doubt about what mine is. Now I want mine to be Brazilian too, but I don't even know why for sure. :crying: I guess I'm mostly wondering what it is about the Brazilian that makes it so much more desirable, and why it demands a premium. Is it the rarity factor (thus collectability) mostly, the aesthetics, is there a tone advantage?
Kurt
All other things equal (which they never are), I think Brazilian rw has the best tone of all the woods. However, there is plenty of debate on that point, and I agree that what is good to one person's ears may not be to anothers. A good Indian rw guitar is a thing of beauty.
Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on August 12, 2010, 05:44:39 PM
Dee-ten, maybe a dumb question, but did you include the full pic of the guitar's back that you originally posted to start the thread?
Kurt
Yes, I did.
Quote from: dee-ten on August 12, 2010, 08:41:20 PM
Yes, I did.
I'm going to re-send the pics of the back and sides of mine to Larrivee and ask specifically if it is Brazilian or Indian Rosewood. I forgot to ask that question specifically when I did it the first time. Do'h.
Kurt
How it plays and how it sounds is really the bottom line. Could be either - plenty of Braz. guitars that sound fair at best, plenty of Indian guitars that are incredible. Unless you are paying a premium only for the name of the wood, I'd not worry about it -
Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on August 12, 2010, 07:48:27 PM
Man oh man, how does one even tell for sure, then? And if it's that hard to tell, how significant is it in the big picture? Duck, after seeing your pic, I'm again in doubt about what mine is. Now I want mine to be Brazilian too, but I don't even know why for sure. :crying: I guess I'm mostly wondering what it is about the Brazilian that makes it so much more desirable, and why it demands a premium. Is it the rarity factor (thus collectability) mostly, the aesthetics, is there a tone advantage?
Kurt
****ed if I know. When I bought it in 1976, all I knew was, I had to have this guitar. I didn't know Brazilian rosewood from formica. It's actually quite the story that boils down to, I got lucky.
Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on August 12, 2010, 07:48:27 PM
what it is about the Brazilian that makes it so much more desirable, and why it demands a premium.
Kurt
History. Brazillian is what Martin Guitars made most of their guitars from for most of the history of the company, including the highly desirable "pre-war" instruments.
Around 1965 Brazil banned exports of the raw lumber, you could still buy the wood, but it had to be milled in Brazil. This substantially raised the cost for guitar builders, who up until that time had been buying entire logs then cutting them in the US. By 1970 most builders had transitioned to Eaist Indian Rosewood due to cost.
Later the CITES treaty 1975 banned the trade of "non-certified" Brazilian rosewood, because
Dalbergia Nigra (Braz RW) is listed as a threatened species.
Now it is a good sounding tonewood, but to me, it really does not sound much better/different than any of the other Rosewoods which are in the Dalbergia family.
So, part of it is sound, but mostly I think it's the mystique and history.
Small world sometimes... I live 15 minutes from the guitar in question so I went and had a look. The sides and back look a lot like the EIR I have on a mid 90's Takamine. The grain is fairly tight and uniform - not like some Brazilian I've seen - or like the picture of Brazilian earlier in this post, but I'm no expert in rosewood. I looked inside and could not see anything like BR or BRAZ by or near the serial number (maybe they weren't doing it back then anyways). My guess would be EIR. A few other comments: some fret wear, bridge is firm, neck is visibly separating from the body on both sides at the back of the neck (strap pin side, maybe about 1 mm max), the case looks to be for a D and this is an L (very average case). Played it a bit - but I'm no 12 string player - very nice full warm sound. Hope this helps - I know I've been helped by fellow forum-ites and have bought 2 amazing Larrivees from forum members - one for me and one for my son! :winkin: Greg
Quote from: gracem on August 13, 2010, 12:34:41 AM
Small world sometimes... I live 15 minutes from the guitar in question so I went and had a look. The sides and back look a lot like the EIR I have on a mid 90's Takamine. The grain is fairly tight and uniform - not like some Brazilian I've seen - or like the picture of Brazilian earlier in this post, but I'm no expert in rosewood. I looked inside and could not see anything like BR or BRAZ by or near the serial number (maybe they weren't doing it back then anyways). My guess would be EIR. A few other comments: some fret wear, bridge is firm, neck is visibly separating from the body on both sides at the back of the neck (strap pin side, maybe about 1 mm max), the case looks to be for a D and this is an L (very average case). Played it a bit - but I'm no 12 string player - very nice full warm sound. Hope this helps - I know I've been helped by fellow forum-ites and have bought 2 amazing Larrivees from forum members - one for me and one for my son! :winkin: Greg
Small world indeed, Greg. I'm in NE Edmonton so just a bit further away from the seller than you. I talked to him on the phone tonight. By any chance, are you the one who he said was coming to look at it earlier this evening (thurs)? Anyways, I think you just saved me a trip. I was going to look at it tomorrow evening, mostly to just hear it compared to my L07 which is almost identical to it in design and woods. Now I don't think I'll bother given the potential neck joint issues, which I assume could be a major problem? I told myself, and my wife :whistling:, I just want to compare the two and not buy it, but you know how that can snowball. So, better I avoid the temptation all together. :laughin:
Kurt
I'm pretty sure its EIR.
Quote from: AZLiberty on August 12, 2010, 11:25:35 PM
Now it is a good sounding tonewood, but to me, it really does not sound much better/different than any of the other Rosewoods which are in the Dalbergia family.
So, part of it is sound, but mostly I think it's the mystique and history.
I was always a little embarassed to tell people that I had a DV 09 BZ, and just could not bond with the sound. I found that eventually I stopped playing this guitar and figured that it was best to trade it for another Larrivee. A very accomplished player I know told me a similar story about after finally getting his own brazilian guitar, he just didn't like it.
As for me, I'm nuts about my EI RW JCL 40th Anniversary Reissue, so I guess it's just another case of different strokes for different folks. I would love to hear duck's old BZ, as I'm sure that it's sounding awesome after all those years of pickin'...
Quote from: gracem on August 13, 2010, 12:34:41 AM
Small world sometimes... I live 15 minutes from the guitar in question so I went and had a look. The sides and back look a lot like the EIR I have on a mid 90's Takamine. The grain is fairly tight and uniform - not like some Brazilian I've seen - or like the picture of Brazilian earlier in this post, but I'm no expert in rosewood. I looked inside and could not see anything like BR or BRAZ by or near the serial number (maybe they weren't doing it back then anyways). My guess would be EIR. A few other comments: some fret wear, bridge is firm, neck is visibly separating from the body on both sides at the back of the neck (strap pin side, maybe about 1 mm max), the case looks to be for a D and this is an L (very average case). Played it a bit - but I'm no 12 string player - very nice full warm sound. Hope this helps - I know I've been helped by fellow forum-ites and have bought 2 amazing Larrivees from forum members - one for me and one for my son! :winkin: Greg
Greg, thanks for letting us know what you saw and heard. :donut :donut2 And thanks to everyone for their input. :donut :donut2
Here's Larrivee's response after seeing the pictures:
The guitar is for sure Indian Rosewood. I don't believe we were using Brazilian at that time either. Indian Rosewood would be better if you are ever traveling since there are restrictions on Brazilian Rosewood in some countries.
Another identifying mark of Brazilion is the effect called webbing. In the normal grain pattern you can find some nontraditional grain lines. Indian tends to be visually tighter grain with the same color variation, but the color variation is tighter as well. You can see in Ducks pictures that his Brazilion has wider color variation across adjacent grain lines and the grain lines seem to be less tight. Although his particular guitar is very consistant, you can still see a webbing pattern emerging about 2/3rds of the way down the back just to the outside of the centerline.
Duck.... lucky? That's like saying you found a lottery ticket on the ground and it happened to be the big winner. Not only that, but the day you turned it in was the last day it would have been eligible for redemption. You've got a gorgeous collection.
Quote from: tadol on August 12, 2010, 09:13:11 PM
How it plays and how it sounds is really the bottom line. Could be either - plenty of Braz. guitars that sound fair at best, plenty of Indian guitars that are incredible. Unless you are paying a premium only for the name of the wood, I'd not worry about it -
:+1::Agree with Tadol I have played quite a few Brazilian, and have yet to find one that sounds better than my JCL 40th Anniversary model. Back wood is but one component of the sound of a guitar, important to be sure, but not the only thing. I believe the top bracing plays a very important part. My JCL has a totally different, richer sound than any L09 or L10 I have ever played. Jean Larrivee said he hand shaped the bracing on the JCL. It is the same shape and tonewoods as the L09/10, but blows them away in sound.
Here another example for Brazilian RW from my 2 Larrivee´s: BZ can look different :-)
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Visually, I tell Brazilian from Indian by the fact that Brazilian grain lines look more precise or in-focus than Indian. Indian looks a bit softer or blurrier. Colour and pattern of grain is all over the map for both varieties. (If I could see a focused picture of the back with plenty of resolution, I'd known in an instant.)
As for sound, Brazilian is simply harder than Indian, just as Indian is harder than mahogany, and ebony is harder than both. Therefore, it gives a bit of a ringier tone (more higher overtones) than Indian by maybe 10 or 15 %. This may be a good thing for a nylon string guitar, since the strings have that fat, fundamentals emphasis. But for steel string guitars -- esp. when combined with a tight spruce soundboard -- that extra ring can easily be over the top, if the builder doesn't know how to compensate. Heck -- look at how many people will take a mahogany D-18 over a rosewood D-28 (Martin dreadnought models) because they want that sweeter sound. If they want ring, all they need to do is put on a new set of phosphor strings.
Indian rosewood is beautiful, Brazilian is typically even more beautiful ... to the eye. Like elaborate inlays or the quilting in select maple, the rarity and visual appeal of Brazilian is a fanciness factor, not a sound-superiority factor. You marvel over it for the first month of ownership, then you don't even notice it unless you're showing it off to a stranger. If you're a builder and you have a set of Brazilian, you don't think "wow! this will give me a fabulous sounding guitar!". You think "wow! this will allow me to jack up the price! ... now what top should I use to balance out all those overtones?..."
(http://toonz.ca/Larrivee/C10BZ/C10BZBack.jpg)
Quote from: Pickering_Picker on August 13, 2010, 07:31:29 PM
Visually, I tell Brazilian from Indian by the fact that Brazilian grain lines look more precise or in-focus than Indian. Indian looks a bit softer or blurrier. Colour and pattern of grain is all over the map for both varieties. (If I could see a focused picture of the back with plenty of resolution, I'd known in an instant.)
As for sound, Brazilian is simply harder than Indian, just as Indian is harder than mahogany, and ebony is harder than both. Therefore, it gives a bit of a ringier tone (more higher overtones) than Indian by maybe 10 or 15 %. This may be a good thing for a nylon string guitar, since the strings have that fat, fundamentals emphasis. But for steel string guitars -- esp. when combined with a tight spruce soundboard -- that extra ring can easily be over the top, if the builder doesn't know how to compensate. Heck -- look at how many people will take a mahogany D-18 over a rosewood D-28 (Martin dreadnought models) because they want that sweeter sound. If they want ring, all they need to do is put on a new set of phosphor strings.
Indian rosewood is beautiful, Brazilian is typically even more beautiful ... to the eye. Like elaborate inlays or the quilting in select maple, the rarity and visual appeal of Brazilian is a fanciness factor, not a sound-superiority factor. You marvel over it for the first month of ownership, then you don't even notice it unless you're showing it off to a stranger. If you're a builder and you have a set of Brazilian, you don't think "wow! this will give me a fabulous sounding guitar!". You think "wow! this will allow me to jack up the price! ... now what top should I use to balance out all those overtones?..."
I like your attitude, dude :thumb. I think it all has more to do with the luthier than the '
magic' specs. Some differences sometimes. JCL is a wizard with it all.
Quote from: cke on August 13, 2010, 08:47:28 PM
I like your attitude, dude. I think it all has more to do with the luthier than the 'magic' specs. Some differences sometimes. JCL is a wizard with it all.
Thanks! And of course I agree about JCL being a wizard. But he can't have had his finger in the pie of all the thousands of guitars that come out of the two shops. He'd have to be in two places at once for one thing, given the two shops. Yet Larrivee guitars not only have an excellent rep for sheer sound quality, they also have an excellent rep for
consistent sound quality. To me that says he's passed on his expertise to his staff to a very high degree. There's only so far you can go with recipe instructions like: "use a softer top for Brazilian b&s" (fictitious example). The person following the recipe has to have an ear for tap tones in order to select that softer top.
I don't have any reason to believe JCL had any direct input into building my particular guitar, yet it's phenomenally excellent. I chose it over instruments two and three times the price. What that tells me is that even when JCL retires the company will continue creating instruments to the same high standards indefinitely. And that makes me feel very, very good. (BTW: here in the Toronto area we're keenly aware how excellent a teacher JCL must be, given all his apprentices have gone on to do great things themselves. David Wren, Grit Laskin, Linda Manzer, Sergei de Jonge are names that come immediately to mind in these parts.)
Sorry to sound like a fanboy, folks!
Also, sorry to get so far off-topic. ST's photo is a brazilant example (to recycle ST's great pun) of what we mostly think of when we think Brazilian: slab-cut (?) to create interesting grain patterns. But there is quarter-cut Brazilian out there with more nearly straight grain lines, like a soundboard. The theory is that quarter-cut Brazilian will make for a "better" sound as well as being less prone to cracking. I think most builders would now agree both points are largely myth.
ST: hope you don't mind, I sharpened your pic of your guitar's truly beautiful back in an attempt to make the Brazilian-ness of the grain pattern more apparent:
(http://daystarvisions.com/Music/C10BZBack.jpg)
I'm including a pic of the back of a C-19Braz I own. This is the plainest and flattest sawn Braz I've seen. yet the tone is that typical Brazilian clarion-like trademark (ring).
(http://randyrick.us/guitars/LarriveeC19braz_back2.jpg)
Its also a lovely piece of work.
(http://randyrick.us/guitars/LarriveeC19braz_front.jpg)
Quote from: Pickering_Picker on August 14, 2010, 12:05:41 PM
Thanks! And of course I agree about JCL being a wizard. But he can't have had his finger in the pie of all the thousands of guitars that come out of the two shops. He'd have to be in two places at once for one thing, given the two shops. Yet Larrivee guitars not only have an excellent rep for sheer sound quality, they also have an excellent rep for consistent sound quality. To me that says he's passed on his expertise to his staff to a very high degree. There's only so far you can go with recipe instructions like: "use a softer top for Brazilian b&s" (fictitious example). The person following the recipe has to have an ear for tap tones in order to select that softer top.
I don't have any reason to believe JCL had any direct input into building my particular guitar, yet it's phenomenally excellent. I chose it over instruments two and three times the price. What that tells me is that even when JCL retires the company will continue creating instruments to the same high standards indefinitely. And that makes me feel very, very good. (BTW: here in the Toronto area we're keenly aware how excellent a teacher JCL must be, given all his apprentices have gone on to do great things themselves. David Wren, Grit Laskin, Linda Manzer, Sergei de Jonge are names that come immediately to mind in these parts.)
Sorry to sound like a fanboy, folks!
Also, sorry to get so far off-topic. ST's photo is a brazilant example (to recycle ST's great pun) of what we mostly think of when we think Brazilian: slab-cut (?) to create interesting grain patterns. But there is quarter-cut Brazilian out there with more nearly straight grain lines, like a soundboard. The theory is that quarter-cut Brazilian will make for a "better" sound as well as being less prone to cracking. I think most builders would now agree both points are largely myth.
ST: hope you don't mind, I sharpened your pic of your guitar's truly beautiful back in an attempt to make the Brazilian-ness of the grain pattern more apparent:
Re: the future. JCL's sons, John and Matthew, are the ones running the factories and are fully involved in design and building, sharing all of their Dad's knowledge. The company is in great hands for the foreseeable future. :thumbsup
Some beautiful wood there, fellow Brazzers! :thumb
You know that 12-string that dee-ten was enquiring about to start this thread? I took my L-07 and went to see it and compare the two yesterday and I bought it! :arrow
It's uncanny how the two are almost identical in terms of woods, body dimensions, etc. Mine is about 2 years older. The main difference is in the neck shapes. The 12-string has a thinner C-shaped profile, while mine is thicker and a soft_V shape. It's not brazilian rosewood as you all soon figured out. The seller just thought it was is all. He was told by someone in the past that it was and he had no reason to question it as his knowledge about the difference is lacking (like mine was till I learned from all of you in this valuable thread). He seems like an honest person and he wasn't trying to fool anyone, I don't believe.
He bought the guitar new in 1985 in Saskatoon Sask. at St. John's music. Cosmetically, it is very clean and obviously well looked after. Hardly a scratch on it. He hasn't played it much for many years and that was his reason for selling it. He is actually looking for a quality 6-string to replace it. He hinted maybe we could trade, and of course I said "no way". As reported by gracem, there are some neck issues. The neck relief (up bow) is greater than it should be. I think it will also need an eventual reset as it is tilted forward (straight edge extended along frets to the bridge registers about 1/16" below the bridge top). I only did the measurement after I got it home. So the action past about fret 6 or 7 is pretty high. It plays well on the lower frets, though. It intonates very well also, especially for a 12-string which I would think is tougher to accomplish, correct?
I bought it in spite of this since he lowered his price by $250.00 and it is still very playable. But mostly because the tone is fantastic! (to me at least):thumb I don't have much experience with 12 strings, but to me it is the best sounding one I've ever heard in person. I've been playing some Byrds type stuff on it last night and today and it's simply inspiring. I did my version of "Mr. Tambourine Man" for my wife and this helped to smooth over my purchasing "another guitar that I don' really need". :guitar
I'm going to have to get used to the different feel and spacing of the 12-string. Especially fingerpicking, which I don't do very well anyways (yet) :winkin: My left hand fingers are pretty sore today as I've probably played it 3 hours already. I'll post some pics in the Pictures category soon. I'd like to post some recordings of both guitars eventually but not quite up on the technology yet. How do you get a cassete tape to play on here, anyways? :winkin:
Stay tuned
Kurt
Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on August 14, 2010, 07:08:24 PM
How do you get a cassete tape to play on here, anyways? :winkin:
Stay tuned
Kurt
You just need to add a Radio Shack TRS80 to your network... :laughin:
Good catch on the 12 string. Get it to a good luthier to see if he can make the neck right. Or send it to John Larrivee to be adjusted.
Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on August 14, 2010, 07:08:24 PM
I bought it in spite of this since he lowered his price by $250.00 and it is still very playable. anyways? :winkin:
Stay tuned
Kurt
It was a heck of a deal to begin with - Where are The Mounties :laughin: Well done friend!!!! Everyone should have a 12er
Well done! :thumb
:nice guitar: Really glad you bought it! :gotpics:
Thanks all for the kind words.
It all happened so fast. At first, when I brought it home, I thought, "what the hell did I just do? Spend that much money on a guitar that needs an expensive repair?" After playing it and especially reading your posts, I'm not having any buyers remorse at all so that's a real good sign.
Kurt
Go ahead and put a set of Martin Silk & Steels on it. It will be a bit easier to play, and the lower tension is probably a good idea given the neck issue. (also probably help with the neck up-bow)
I like the way they sound, so they are what I have on my D-03R-12
Quote from: AZLiberty on August 15, 2010, 01:33:55 AM
Go ahead and put a set of Martin Silk & Steels on it. It will be a bit easier to play, and the lower tension is probably a good idea given the neck issue. (also probably help with the neck up-bow)
I like the way they sound, so they are what I have on my D-03R-12
I'll definately try the Martins as you suggest for my first string change. What guage are they? However, the strings on it right now are Earthwood Silk and Steel 12-string soft 9 to 46 (9 to 26) which I assume are about as light as they get and maybe similiar to what you are suggesting?
I agree the less tension the better right now. The guitar is quite loud, which I like. I think it has a bit more volume than my L-07 but not sure if it's an illusion caused by hearing twice as many strings playing at once. Is this typical of a 12-string?
I compared the sound of it to the 4 recordings of 12-strings on the forum. The one it sounds like the most to my ears is the recording of the L-10 12 string spruce/rosewood. There are no recordings of a D size 12-string, but I bet mine and yours sound pretty similiar. They all sound good to me anyways.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Kurt
You may want to adjust the relief before assuming a neck reset, I have heard of few, actually, no, Larri 12's needing resets unless they have been badly abused and with nary a scratch your new acquisition certainly does not sound like it was left on the back porch out of the case winter and summer. My L05-12 is built like a tank and might even take that kind of abuse (just kidding). Have it set up for you! :nice guitar:
btw, I use 11-50's with custom octaves on mine and she loves it.
I don't see any mention of adjusting the truss rod on the 12 string. This should have an adjustable truss rod by the date it was made.
btw. Date sold in store is not the same as date made. The v-neck L-09 I have sat in a shop new for several years before it was first bought.
Here's a couple raw recordings with my L05-12, not bad though for a hand held recorder (I think I used my Edirol on these one take wonders) they are wonders 'cause I got'em in 1 take.
:laughin:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7005208
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7072608
Quote from: Randy_R on August 15, 2010, 07:51:06 AM
I don't see any mention of adjusting the truss rod on the 12 string. This should have an adjustable truss rod by the date it was made.
btw. Date sold in store is not the same as date made. The v-neck L-09 I have sat in a shop new for several years before it was first bought.
THANK-YOU RANDY :cheers. Silly me. Would you believe because I didn't see a truss rod when casually looking at the neck block, I assumed there was none! So after I read your post, I got a mirror and looked inside and viola, there it was. So the guitar was probably made in 1985 or so as the seller stated. So then I thought, what if my L-07 has one too! Again, I had never looked carefully inside with a mirror after 25 years of ownership. So I looked in there but there isn't one, which also helps to date it. The 2 s/n bear this out. The L-07 is 072617 and the 12-string is 403656. I'm assuming the first 2 digits are the model. If that is true than the 12-string is 1039 units newer. Anybody know what the "40" designates. Is it a model number?
So that's the good news. I can hopefully take some of the relief out of it assuming the truss rod is not damaged or something.
BTW Of course, I realize that a git could sit in the store for a long time before it is bought. :humour:
Now for the bad news. See the next post.
Kurt
As gracem reported there is a gap between the neck heel and the body. I mentioned it to the seller and even asked him if the neck had ever been removed or repaired. He told me definitely not. He claimed to not even be aware of any gaps until I pointed it out. But who knows for sure. Gracem, did you mention it to him when you examined it the night before? I chose to overlook the problem (or maybe pretend it wasn't there, given my infatuation with it). I bought it knowing about the gap for reasons I gave before. So now the question of eventual neck reset required or not. As stated, I did the straight edge along the frets test and there is a drop of at least 1/16". See pics attached. I also accurately measured the gap at several points around the heel with feeler gauges. The neck is definitely tilted forward. The gap is widest at the heel cap and narrows down to zero more or less where the neck joins the top of the guitar. It's also slightly wider at the treble side than the bass side. One thing that bothers me, but may or may not be significant is the gap is not consistently narrower from cap to top (in other words, not a wedge with perfectly straight sides). Rather, it gets a little wider at one point along it's length of both sides of the heel. Suggesting the heel's contour doesn't perfectly match the countour of the guitar's body and has maybe been shaved at some point? I can't see it coming from the factory that way. On the other hand, maybe I am just seeing the results of it pulling away and maybe some slightly deformed wood or dried glue?
Any comments on this would be appreciated. If the action can be lowered enough with the truss rod should I worry about it? I guess the worst that can happen is it will get wider over time. Of course I will get it checked out by a luthier, but until then...........
Not sure I described that very well. The pics should tell the story though.
Kurt
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I think my last two posts are not really about Brazilian vs Indian Rosewood, as intended by the OP. So I'm going to start a new thread in the repair section about the need for neck work on my 12-string. It probably belongs there and not in this topic.
Kurt