Acquired a new parlor size couch guitar. There seems to be a high pitched secondary ringing from the fifth string when played open. Is kind of wierd in that it is heard loudest when in normal playing position and I can't quite work out where its coming from. Not happening with any other strings. Can't see it hitting any frets and setup looks ok..... or should I do some test ?? Have tried changing the string in case of a loose ball end but no joy, machine heads not loose. Ideas anyone..... ???? ...this is doing my noodle :wacko:
Quote from: hatofthecat on July 06, 2010, 09:34:27 AM
There seems to be a high pitched secondary ringing from the fifth string when played open.
If you tune the whole guitar down by a half step, does the secondary sound go away?
dg
Mute all of the strings inbetween the nut and the tuners and see if it goes away.
dg - tried the down half a step tuning but it was still there :rolleye:
Jim - light muting all the strings had no effect BUT if I apply strong pressure on the 5th string between tuners and the nut (enough to take the string up about a 1/4 tone) the ringing is goes :smile: I tried also tuning up the string by a similar amount without the pressure above the nut but ringing is there. So it is definitely something up that end..... what do I look at now we've narrowed it down ? Its a slotted headstock with unbranded Kluson style tuners.
cheers, Pete
Does the buzz or noise sound somewhat like a sitar sound? Also, does the buzz stop if you fret the A string at the first fret?
QuoteDoes the buzz or noise sound somewhat like a sitar sound?
Trying to think what a sitar sounds like but not really.... its more like a little tuning fork
QuoteAlso, does the buzz stop if you fret the A string at the first fret?
Yup, does indeed, but there looks plenty clearance over the fret
Pete
If it dissapears when you press down behind the nut and dissapears when you push down on the first fret it is likely not seating correctly in the nut slot. Try taking a string the same size as the one in there and sawing it back and forth lightly pulling down hardest on the back side of the nut. Re-tune the string and try it again. Remember to put the most pressure towards the back of the nut so you don't inadvertently lower the string in the nut too much. You are trying to assure that the string seats completely in the nut along the entire contact area. However, before you do anything at all make sure it isn't a rattle in the machine head.
GA-ME - Really can't hear or feel anything loose in the machinehead. Tried rubbing another string of same gauge in the slot as suggested, is hard to tell if I'm removing anything much as its a bone nut so hard stuff without tools !! Had a go for a few minutes and retuned.... "may" be slight improvement. Will have another try a bit later but I am tending towards your suggestion of a problem in the nut slot as being it.
Pete
Quote from: hatofthecat on July 06, 2010, 12:31:38 PM
dg - tried the down half a step tuning but it was still there :rolleye:
Jim - light muting all the strings had no effect BUT if I apply strong pressure on the 5th string between tuners and the nut (enough to take the string up about a 1/4 tone) the ringing is goes :smile: I tried also tuning up the string by a similar amount without the pressure above the nut but ringing is there. So it is definitely something up that end..... what do I look at now we've narrowed it down ? Its a slotted headstock with unbranded Kluson style tuners.
cheers, Pete
I bet you have a nut slot issue, If the slot angle is wrong the string will buzz on the front or back of the nut as the string is not making full contact with the nut. Hard to tell with out having the guitar in my hands. I would bet the back of the slot is to low. You need to take it to a luthier.
QuoteI bet you have a nut slot issue, If the slot angle is wrong the string will buzz on the front or back of the nut as the string is not making full contact with the nut.
Thats two votes for the nut then :wacko:
QuoteHard to tell with out having the guitar in my hands.
Unfortunately you are some way out of my area code :crying:
QuoteI would bet the back of the slot is to low.
I best stop rubbing it down then..... :rolleye:
QuoteYou need to take it to a luthier.
Oddly I moved place a couple of months ago and within a fortnight a new independent guitar store opened up within 5 minutes walk of my apartment :smile: Mainly they sell their own handmade classicals, some UK boutique steel string stuff but strangely also stock same make as this parlour though not the model. Would be good to test them out though is always nice to manage to fix stuff yourself.
cheers, Pete
Dropped the guitar off at "local" (literally about 400 yds as the crow flies) guitar shop. After a bit of staring at frets and neck and a quick listen it was agreed "yes it does ring a bit doesn't it" and is probably the nut and luthier will have a proper look at in workshop and will tell me what he wants to do & cost. So fingers crossed is just a quick filing guided by a skilled eye.
Pete
PS note to self - "You get funny looks if you walk through a provincial town centre at lunchtime carrying a cerise coloured gig bag" :rolleye:
Quote from: hatofthecat on July 07, 2010, 06:16:55 PM
PS note to self - "You get funny looks if you walk through a provincial town centre at lunchtime carrying a cerise coloured gig bag" :rolleye:
Especially if your tongue is dragging on the ground.
Electrics like a Strat will have that issue because of the string angle from the nut to the tuners. It's corrected with string trees. It does sound like a nut issue.
Never actually seen a string tree, just Googled them .....they look kinda like a bodge repair ? :yak: ...re-file/refill of the slot should do it. Will see what the luthier comes back with.
Pete
Quote from: hatofthecat on July 09, 2010, 05:52:51 AM
Never actually seen a string tree, just Googled them .....they look kinda like a bodge repair ? :yak: ...re-file/refill of the slot should do it. Will see what the luthier comes back with.
Pete
Yeah, I shouldn't even of brought string trees up. On an acoustic it is more than likely a nut or some other set-up issue. I'm sure it'll get fixed.
A wolf tone, or simply a "wolf", is produced when a played note matches the natural resonating frequency of the body of a musical instrument, producing a sustaining sympathetic artificial overtone that amplifies and expands the frequencies of the original note, frequently accompanied by an oscillating beating (due to the uneven frequencies between the natural note and artificial overtone) which may be likened to the howling of the animal. A similar phenomenon is the wolf interval, usually between E flat and G sharp, of the various non-circulating temperaments.
Try putting a piece of cloth above the nut to dampen the string.
It is essentially an attenuator that cuts down on reverberation.
Quote from: Queequeg on July 09, 2010, 09:31:06 AM
producing a sustaining sympathetic artificial overtone that amplifies and expands the frequencies of the original note, frequently accompanied by an oscillating beating (due to the uneven frequencies between the natural note and artificial overtone) which may be likened to the howling of the animal.
That's how it occurs on a bowed instrument. On a guitar a wolf note is usually manifested as a louder blunt note with almost no sustain (like it dumps its energy too quick).
Quote from: jeremy3220 on July 09, 2010, 10:18:19 AM
That's how it occurs on a bowed instrument. On a guitar a wolf note is usually manifested as a louder blunt note with almost no sustain (like it dumps its energy too quick).
The reason I thought of wolf is because he said the open 5th string which is most often what I associate a wolf note on guitar with.
Is definitely the nut slot for the 5th string thats is the culprit. Luthier has it on his fix list for today so might get it back tomorrow with luck. :thumb
"wolf" note.... isn't usually something coming from a building site when a pretty girl walks by :whistling:
Pete
Picked up guitar today and she's all fixed :bgrin:
Thanks for the steer to pin the problem down folks :cheers
Pete
Glad you got it fixed.
I was about to ask if it had a built-in pickup preamp. Some preamps have a spring loaded 9v battery compartment. Make sure that you have a battery in there, or that little spring can ring.
-Scott