Main Forums => Other Guitar Makers => Topic started by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 07:22:17 PM

Title: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 07:22:17 PM
                   Basically this is the Custom Maple/Hog top that I have been working on for quite a while.
Anyway it appears to be Maple "Koa Top". I just stuck the new bridge on temporarily with 2 bolts and strung up 4 strings. I made a plastic nut and saddle real quick and stuck the tuners on and wound up the strings.
                  When I plucked the low E, WOW and then I checked the intonation and it was very close. The same on all four. I'll adjust it all out with a bone nut and saddle.

                                 I didn't build this. I'm refinishing it and somewhat rebuilding it.

              I'll post some pics in a few and say a little more. Man this is turning out cool :nice guitar:
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 08:17:58 PM
                     Here are some pics of the "temporary" nut, saddle and bolted on belly in bridge.
(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/42995/2849950520104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2849950520104334565rChJHO)
             The little clamp is there to hold the fretboard extension down, as the neck is not glued on yet.

           Only four strings are on because two bolts are holding the bridge in place through the pin holes
(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/45322/2756300470104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2756300470104334565yjkDYL)

      I strung this up to test the placement of the new bridge. I checked the intonation and it is within range.
             ie. the plastic nut and saddle will be replaced with bone when the bridge is glued down.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 08:38:59 PM
    I still have a lot to do and I have made a LOT of mistakes, but I have corrected most and some won't effect the playability just the looks. The neck action looks like it will be real nice. I'm very glad about that because the truss rod is not adjustable. Also the frets were horribly installed. I wanted to scrap the neck but I stupid glued all the loose frets (most of them) And I have started leveling the frets. I think it will play just fine. Though I may order a new neck anyway.
                     (http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/45943/2661487370104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2661487370104334565xUyhzq)
         
         All the body has on it is three layers of sealer. I need to put some finish on after some touch up around the        
         bridge and a little neck binding repair. The neck has been totally finished with Polyurethane.


                        This is where I plugged the original holes for the incorrectly placed bridge.
(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/37706/2493838620104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2493838620104334565MYOcCB)

                         (Those mahogany plugs came from Larrivee in Vancouver)
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 09:00:38 PM
 Here is a tool I made to cut the Mahogany?Sapele plugs out of the Larrivee soundhole cutout.
(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/43180/2270696660104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2270696660104334565hsegLM)
The tool itself is the small brass drill/cutter on the left. It was cut from stock like the piece on the right.
Then drilled out and teeth cut into the end. I used a small file to eject the plugs.
(the large chrome shaft is a Margarita maker spout stop for a Taylor M.M.)

(http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/41390/2889470090104334565S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2889470090104334565kdIqzF)
  You can see the teeth now. I used a dremel cutoff disc first and then small files to sharpen.

 The file was inserted pointed end into the brass stock which was closed on the back, to eject the plugs.
(http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/43310/2510818430104334565S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2510818430104334565XuGkYa)
   This all took a long time but I wanted to put a little "Larrivee" in this one. :winkin:
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: pigtown on February 20, 2010, 09:07:58 PM
Pretty wood, nice work!
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: pigtown on February 20, 2010, 09:07:58 PM
Pretty wood, nice work!
Thanks, I bought this as a finished guitar, but it was all screwed up. So I am refinishing/rebuilding it.
              It is all solid woods. Though the neck is a 3 piece. I heard it for the first time today and it floored me. It is a deep bodied guitar. X-braced and that part seems to be done pretty well. I love the tone and the projection and can't wait to get it all glued down, finished out and ready to play.
             It has lots of small imperfections, but it is also a stunner to look at right away.
But what I really like is that "sound" I heard today. Bright , full resonant and somehow "woody" to boot. I just hope I don't put anymore cracks in it it or screw up something major before I'm finished. I've been working on this one off and on for a long time now.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 09:27:49 PM
   I went with the Gibson "belly in" bridge because this appears to be a deep body Nick Lucas copy.
(http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/42331/2478095650104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2478095650104334565NhfWaL)
   I tried several bridges, but always came back to the Gibby style. I also was going to put some
   Kluson Deluxe Tuners (off of a 60's Les Paul I believe) but the head stock is too narrow :angry:
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 09:34:38 PM
  I should have this up and running in a week or less and I think it will satisfy my ''jones" for a hog top. :guitar
                         And will make the long wait for the Forum IV a breeze.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on February 20, 2010, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: dependan on February 20, 2010, 09:34:38 PM
  I should have this up and running in a week or less and I think it will satisfy my ''jones" for a hog top. :guitar
                         And will make the long wait for the Forum IV a breeze.

That's optimistic  :smile:
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: ncognito on February 20, 2010, 09:56:10 PM
Danny--

I'm looking forward to the finished product.  It's going to be great, I'm sure.

         DAVE
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 09:57:51 PM
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on February 20, 2010, 09:46:43 PM
That's optimistic  :smile:
I know....down in the dumps posts have been oozing from my fingertips for awhile now. But There has been no playable hogtop in the house since I sold the D-03MT last November and my son sold his hog top dread also (used to be mine) So with this Koa topped Maple coming on line I'm getting excited. Maple is a tonewood I like. I had a 00-09FM Larrivee and this one is the size of an LS with a deeper body. So it will be a mix of the two in a way. A koa top should be close to a hog top but I never have owned one before.
   According to Dana Bourgeois, Koa and Mahogany tops have been made for almost a hundred years and are similar.

       
Quote from: ncognito on February 20, 2010, 09:56:10 PM
Danny--

I'm looking forward to the finished product.  It's going to be great, I'm sure.

        DAVE
Thanks Dave, It won't be a SCGC or Collings. But it will have a whole lot of Danny in it and a little "Larrivee" as well.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 20, 2010, 11:18:07 PM
  Here is a pic of the 3 piece neck. The wood was different in the three pieces so I added some dark stain and colorant to the finish procedure. It looks a lot better than it did. The body only has sealer and has not even been sanded yet for the final finish.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Daysailer on February 21, 2010, 12:00:30 PM
Very very nice !

Neck binding looks pretty cool.
Did your staining and colorant make that nice color and flame ?
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Stephen Basil on February 21, 2010, 01:30:59 PM
Very interesting... fantastic post! :beer
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: cke on February 21, 2010, 03:18:19 PM
Hey Danny. Said it before and I'll say it again :bowdown:: 
Wow!! You do great work, a real artist
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 21, 2010, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: Daysailer on February 21, 2010, 12:00:30 PM
Very very nice !

Neck binding looks pretty cool.
Did your staining and colorant make that nice color and flame ?
Thanks guys.   I did stain the headstock, the neck binding and the heel cap all the same. The flamed maple body has no stain, only shellac sealer (wax free).
     The top has a little stain on it. The top is where I made a lot of mistakes but it was pretty thick so I sanded it down and started over. So it has a little stain now but not much and some sealer.
      I'll finish sealing and sanding today probably and possibly get the bridge glued down.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 22, 2010, 03:12:34 PM
  I glued the bridge on overnight. I also sanded the sealer on the body and put a little more on. there are imperfections.
                         But I'm ready to play this one so I'm just saying "good enough".
(http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/46025/2220005610104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2220005610104334565NoPTTX)

                        An idea came to me as I was putting the clamping caul inside the body.
  Why not use two small wood screws to help clamp the bridge down as well, so I used a
  very solid piece of oak for the caul and wrapped it in wax paper as well as using a little vasiline
  around the screw holes, so the caull would not be glued to the bridge brace. It worked.
(http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/46505/2054430360104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2054430360104334565WnjxnX)

This is the caul I made. It fit between the X braces. I know it's not the best, but I hope good enough.
(http://inlinethumb53.webshots.com/46580/2739767780104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2739767780104334565hrNitX)
   I hope y'all like seeing these pics and it's not just "overkill"
(http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/44271/2609534220104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2609534220104334565uKxnAd)
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: jshowyin on February 22, 2010, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: dependan on February 22, 2010, 03:12:34 PM
   I hope y'all like seeing these pics and it's not just "overkill"

Definitely not overkill in my book. Looks great Danny. Thanks for taking the time to take the photos and share your adventure with us. I admire your talent and your ingenuity in making some of the 'tools' and devices needed to do the job well. Take care and can't wait to see and hear the finished product. Jared
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 25, 2010, 11:19:08 PM
   I think you'll get a laugh out of this. Today as I was going to put some more finish on this guitar body. I said to my wife that I sure would like to have a Jig or something to hold the body and that rotates so I can work on all of it.
  Well I went out to the garage and in a few minutes the idea came to me from stuff under the work bench and around the shop.                        
                                                    Here it is.
(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/44235/2528959370104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2528959370104334565eKWhbr)

That's two old Toyota jacks, quickly cleaned up and wrapped in plastic, clamped to the bench. The rod is brass and has what amounts to a roller on the right end that fits just right in a pocket on top of the jack. I put a vicegrip on to turn it and a wedge of wood to stabilize it in the end pin. It works great.

                                                 "Blue collar guitar refinishing" :winkin:


                 This has one layer of finish over one layer of sealer on the sides and
                  two layers of finish on the back. Three layers of finish are on the top.
(http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/44964/2859754420104334565S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2859754420104334565ggApjZ)

  The bridge will only have a light coat of tung oil or tru oil. The top just needs to cure and I'll buff it out.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 25, 2010, 11:37:33 PM
The back and sides have small imperfections, but I just want to get this done. And I think it will look fine.

(http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/43654/2824276370104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2824276370104334565ziKtvU)

 The Maple has some color variations in it. It is not dyed at all. I know that means it is a little lower grade but I really do like the subtle changes in color. And the bookmatched sides and back have the color variations the same.

(http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/44905/2531054170104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2531054170104334565gfkNcq)
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on February 25, 2010, 11:50:01 PM
                                                Last one before the neck goes on.
(http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/44737/2794836210104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2794836210104334565rasUku)
                          I like the belly in rosewood bridge and it seems to be placed exactly right.
There are 4 or 5 layers of sealer that I would put on and lightly sand off and also a wash coat of sealer cut with denatured alcohol. Then three layers of wipe on polyurethane. I'll bring out the gloss in it when I buff it. And if too
many flaws show up I'll turn it into satin. :tongue:
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: tadol on February 26, 2010, 12:08:41 AM
Looks strangely like a BBQ rotisserie -  :laughin:

Waitin' for the playin' part Danny -

Tad
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Mr_LV19E on February 26, 2010, 12:31:11 AM
Quote from: tadol on February 26, 2010, 12:08:41 AM
Looks strangely like a BBQ rotisserie -  :laughin:


Thats what I thought. You need to put a electric motor on that spit so you don't get carpel tunnel cranking it by hand.   :wink:
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: PCT57 on March 07, 2010, 03:30:26 AM
Danny

How have I missed this thread  :?

The guitar looks stunning and has an interesting and unusual (?) combination of woods.

I envy you to be able to do this - look forward to seeing the next installment.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on March 07, 2010, 09:24:23 PM
   Well, I had the neck on a week ago and I was in too big a hurry to play it. So I wound up with a bad neck set. For a week now I've been taking it off, making adjustments, putting it back etc.
  I also worked more on the "fret job from hell". And managed to scar the top, neck and bridge while doing all these things over again.

        All I can say is this just may be the thing that teaches me patience. :blush:

I do have the neck set right now. So I can begin to set the saddle and nut height. What little I have played it has been very promising.
       
         My wife commented on how nice it sounded to her. And I don't even have the B string compensated at all yet.

         More pics soon.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: unclrob on March 07, 2010, 10:16:02 PM
You may not need to compensate the B.I don't bother on any of my saddle's.Those that do uselly bring me one of Bob's higher end ivory whatever and I install those.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on March 08, 2010, 01:09:16 AM
Quote from: unclrob on March 07, 2010, 10:16:02 PM
You may not need to compensate the B.I don't bother on any of my saddle's.Those that do uselly bring me one of Bob's higher end ivory whatever and I install those.
Thanks Rob, I think I should start with just shaping it and lowering it. If you had not posted I probably would have went ahead and compensated it first.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: unclrob on March 08, 2010, 08:42:33 AM
You'd be amazed at how in tune your guitar really is.2 to 3 cents flat on most tuner which is about what you want.Most people press down fairly hard which pulls the string sharp 2 to 3 cents.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: GA-ME on March 08, 2010, 09:05:50 AM
Dan, you should be receiving a package in a day or two. I mailed it last Thursday.
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on March 08, 2010, 11:22:05 AM
  Thanks again Rob. And Jon I'll be glad to get the package. :thumbsup
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: bluesman67 on March 08, 2010, 04:13:39 PM
That's an interesting wood combination.  I'm just curious, how did you come across this guitar project?
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on March 08, 2010, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: bluesman67 on March 08, 2010, 04:13:39 PM
That's an interesting wood combination.  I'm just curious, how did you come across this guitar project?
I was just scanning the Austin Craig's list and I came across this Maple custom hand made guitar. I called the fellow who had it and he is a Gibson collector so this one was an anomaly and just something attractive to look at but messed up for the last six years since it was built.

              I really like maple guitars and I thought this one had a mahogany top until I realized it was a Koa top after seeing an older Larrivee with the same exact design in the grain and with the same coloring.
               

              This guitar had a lot of faults... and I almost turned it down, but i loved the look and the solid woods. So I went for it knowing that the challenge to re-finish and make it a good player would be the a very good part of my education in guitar repair. And it has been. Big time. I make mistakes by the handfuls. I'll post a "mistakes" thread eventually.

            I have NO pride in this rebuild, just a desire to make it a good player. I think I'm turning that corner right now. :donut   
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: SMan on March 09, 2010, 10:39:31 PM
FWIW I think its a great project Danny.  I've picked up some useful tips as well. Looking forward to the finished product.  :thumb
Title: Re: Maple/ Koa Top "hand made"
Post by: Danny on March 09, 2010, 10:55:52 PM
Quote from: SMan on March 09, 2010, 10:39:31 PM
FWIW I think its a great project Danny.  I've picked up some useful tips as well. Looking forward to the finished product.  :thumb
Thanks for the encouragement. I'll be getting back to it in a few days. Work has kept me busy lately.
            I think I'll list all the mistakes I made on this so others may be spared some trouble and loss of $.  I view all my mistakes as part of my learning curve, but I know a little experience shared can help a great deal. Like the tips unclrob passes on to us.
            I'll also post some more pics of the guitar and some tools I've made etc.