Main Forums => Larrivée Guitars => Topic started by: GA-ME on November 30, 2009, 02:12:39 PM

Title: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on November 30, 2009, 02:12:39 PM
There seem to be lots of threads and folks posting lamenting over gasp.........scratching their guitars or even their cases. Guitars are made to be played.  I whacked the pi*s out of the headstock on my 000-60 yesterday. Did I get upset? Did I put her away and stop playing? NO! I continued to use her for what she is made for, to make music. While lots of folks lust after a pristine guitar, so they can sit and stare at its perfect beauty, rather than play her, I'll take my guitars just like my women, Honkey Tonk Specials please.
My 000-60 has over 3000 hours playing time on her, she is my only gigging guitar and the only guitar I play usually. I let others play her, gig with her, and definitely take her out of my frickin' smoke free home and use her for what she was intended for, to make music. The case is banged up much worse and I don't give a rats a** about it. If you use any tool for it's intended purpose, wear begins to show on it, right along with the love it takes to wear a favorite tool, until it feels like a part of ya. The last fret-level was the final one before she needs to be re fretted. I actually used the guitar to make music so much that, gasp, the frets are wearing out and need to be replaced. Scandalous! Enjoy the pics!

By the way the last pic showing the neck is where I wore the finish through from playing and sweat has started to stain the mahogany.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: jamesb1101 on November 30, 2009, 03:03:45 PM
Dents, Scratches all add to it's personality...

Hell YA!!!

Ask Willie Nelson if he'd traid in trigger!

He probably state, "Hell No!)

-James

Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: BenF on November 30, 2009, 03:08:53 PM
I like it. My OM-03 is pretty battle scarred now. It goes with me into whatever room others are not, and has numerous dings as a result. I was angry when I first dinged my forum 3 because it kinda means more to me than just a guitar, but I was sort of releived because once it ceases to be pristine, it becomes imediately more enjoyable to use for it's intended purpose.

Mine are both out all the time on stands with 3 small children an 4 large cats. They ain't babied!

Gloss necks are sticky, satin necks are slippery. The perfect guitar neck for me has become the naturally shined satin neck from hours and hours of relentless play time.

I would've cried at your pics 12 months ago Jonathan, but that has been the biggest change in me over that time. I am right behind you now sir!

Keep :guitar, it makes the world a slightly better place.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on November 30, 2009, 03:38:38 PM
Would it seem that you can't appreciate the beauty & workmanship of a guitar and play it too?? Hmmmmm!!!!

Wounds as result neglect, abuse and clumsiness can be costly

Play wear  - priceless

Somebody wants to whack the p**s out of something -  buy yourself a hammer - it's a lot cheaper and would do a better job  :humour:

Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on November 30, 2009, 03:55:55 PM
Joyce my point isn't that I want to whack the pi*s out of my guitar but that shi*t happens if you use something enough. Guitars are to be played firstly, perhaps looked at secondly. I'll take time to listen to a great picker on a beat up guitar over a lousy guitarist playing a beautiful Ryan any day! I'd dare to say that anyone on this forum would whack the pi*s out of their guitar a few times if they played it for 3000 or more hours instead of gently holding it while it looks pretty.

As far as wounds of neglect being costly, perhaps for some, but I can fix it myself. If I broke the headstock off completely I can fix it it.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on November 30, 2009, 04:39:24 PM
Rather spend my time playin then repairin.

Some are fortunate that can do both.

There seem to be lots of threads and folks posting lamenting over gasp.........scratching their guitars or even their cases - if this kind of topic causes one to gasp one might consider to go play instead.

There are many who feel including myself an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. With guitar playin, it is a low risk activity its when they are not being played that many recognize  the inherent risks. Many have neither the time nor money to incur repairs to insinuate they ought to be playing rather than addressing these risks well thats another way to look at it  its just not mine. Personally I cant afford not to and further wish I could play 24/7
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on November 30, 2009, 05:31:10 PM
Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on November 30, 2009, 04:39:24 PM
Rather spend my time playin then repairin.
Some are fortunate that can do both.

I am not fortunate, anything but. I have very little money and for most of my life this has been the case. I have played guitar, somewhat obsessively, over the last 4 1/2 years, to manage chronic pain without relying on too much medication. The reason I learned how to work on guitars is the same reason I could build custom Harley's, from the ground up, or take a complete engine or transmission apart and put it back together, while building muscle cars. Before I was injured, I could do all these things, because I wanted to be able to do them and l taught myself how to do them. There are do'ers and excuse makers. Do'ers look to what they want to accomplish and simply do it. Everyone else makes excuses for why they can not do something. Excuses are much easier to come by than perseverance.

Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on November 30, 2009, 05:37:52 PM
Sorry to hear of your chronic pain  :cheers mate
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: BenF on November 30, 2009, 05:47:23 PM
I dont think anyone sets out to damage guitars.  I just accept that if I want them there when I want to play them, instead of away in cases, and I want to play them all the time, then there are going to be small accidents, especially with kids around.  When I kept them in cases, i reckon I only played about half the amount, because I couldnt just grab one and play a tune during the commercials on the TV for example.  All playing time = an improvement in skill level.  Small price to pay to get better at playing. 

For me, guitars aren't priceless, but getting as good as I would like to be at playing them is.

I am careful with them though, just not obsessive.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: ryler on November 30, 2009, 05:55:51 PM
I think the essence of the original post is valid, even if it sounded a little accusatory.  And it's worthy to remember whenever that ding does occur.  I still cringe at the sound and sight of a new ding, can't help it.  But ya know, I put my OM in the case because my kids started playing frequently in the room where I keep it, and guess what?  I don't take it out as much as when it was stored on the stand.  So there does come a point where caring about the cosmetics needs to take a backseat if it makes you not play the instrument as much.  But I'm like that with all things that are in great condition, the first cut is the deepest, for sure.  However, I don't see anything wrong with appreciating unmarred beauty of a nice guitar so long as it gets played.

Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on November 30, 2009, 06:54:51 PM
Quote from: BenF on November 30, 2009, 05:47:23 PM
For me, guitars aren't priceless, but getting as good as I would like to be at playing them is.

Truth! I keep thinking that if I keep at it I'll be able to pick as well as you Ben, when you are playing those lovely Drake tunes.

Quote from: JOYCEfromNS on November 30, 2009, 05:37:52 PM
Sorry to hear of your chronic pain  :cheers mate

Thanks Joyce. Living with chronic pain has been an education in itself for me. I am not a very patient person and I sometimes think the chronic pain is some sort of Karma coming round forcing me to try to be more patient and positive. As a result of this injury, I have had the chance to get an education and I am one class away from finishing my bachelors in Psychology and I will graduate in May. In the fall, I'll start an MSW program. My fiance is 2 weeks away from finishing her Doctorate in Physical Therapy,  having started her program because of my injury and her desire to assist others who have similar injuries. Life can throw all the lemons it wants 'cause I enjoy lemonade!

Quote from: ryler on November 30, 2009, 05:55:51 PM
I think the essence of the original post is valid, even if it sounded a little accusatory.

It was meant to be a bit accusatory. Not playing a guitar so it doesn't get scratched or dinged is an offense against my sensibilities. If one person thinks "Man I'd rather play than worry about a ding" then it was a good post.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: Danny on November 30, 2009, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: GA-ME on November 30, 2009, 02:12:39 PM
There seem to be lots of threads and folks posting lamenting over gasp.........scratching their guitars or even their cases. Guitars are made to be played.  I whacked the pi*s out of the headstock on my 000-60 yesterday. Did I get upset? Did I put her away and stop playing? NO! I continued to use her for what she is made for, to make music. While lots of folks lust after a pristine guitar, so they can sit and stare at its perfect beauty, rather than play her, I'll take my guitars just like my women, Honkey Tonk Specials please.
My 000-60 has over 3000 hours playing time on her, she is my only gigging guitar and the only guitar I play usually. I let others play her, gig with her, and definitely take her out of my frickin' smoke free home and use her for what she was intended for, to make music. The case is banged up much worse and I don't give a rats a** about it. If you use any tool for it's intended purpose, wear begins to show on it, right along with the love it takes to wear a favorite tool, until it feels like a part of ya. The last fret-level was the final one before she needs to be re fretted. I actually used the guitar to make music so much that, gasp, the frets are wearing out and need to be replaced. Scandalous! Enjoy the pics!

By the way the last pic showing the neck is where I wore the finish through from playing and sweat has started to stain the mahogany.
SHAME ON YOU; YOU ROGUE!   (I don't know if I spelled rouge right)
   Don't you know that guitars are works of art to be stored under glass or kept in cases until re-sale value is at a level that makes life easy for the initial owner. The last thing we want to see is that someone behave like that horrid OUTLAW from TEJAS ''Willie Nelson" and actually play it and compose songs like "CRAZY".  See what I mean . CRAZY.... and he made a big ole hole in that perfectly good Martin.      ( Which is probably getting close to the value of Roy Rogers Martin, holes and all)    
             Gotta love the little red headed stranger, with blue eyes cryin' in the rain.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: leftync on November 30, 2009, 08:49:49 PM
My guitar is far too good for my playing level and if anything happened to it, it would be hard to find or justify the money to replace it. And even my crappy cowboy chords sound better on my high end Larrivee.
Ironically, I have a chronic, sometimes painful condition in my cervical and lumbar disks that leave my fingers occasionally numb and sometime prevent me from precise fretting. Nonetheless, I love to play and my wife, who works in health care, believes that the fretting may restore some feeling in my fingertips.
So I try and take better care of my guitar than I took care of myself. Both the decent guitars I own, a 90s rosewood D-50 and a parlor, were purchased used so neither came without a blemish. The big on needed a little work, but it had been well cared for.
It's not hard to gently pick it up and gently put it in its case. If something happens, so be it. But why not prevent what I can prevent? I feel fortunate that I have the opportunity to play and that I have nice guitars to play with.
GA-ME, good luck with both your condition and your academics. Sounds like you've already had good luck with your fiance.
Danny, I think you mean rogue, a word that's been getting a lot of attention from Sarah Palin's book title. If GA-ME were going rouge, he might be painting his face and playing mostly show tunes  :roll --not that there's anything wrong with that.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: Danny on November 30, 2009, 09:01:41 PM
  Jonathan.... LET ER RIP BRO. :nana_guitar
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on November 30, 2009, 09:04:02 PM
Quote from: dependan on November 30, 2009, 07:42:11 PM
               Gotta love the little red headed stranger, with blue eyes cryin' in the rain.

Dan, Willie's Hello Walls is one of my all time favorite songs. The lines: "Well look here is that a teardrop in the corner of your pane
Now don't you try to tell me that it's rain"  kill me everytime I listen to it. Yup, great stuff and a fo snizzle cool Trigger.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: Danny on November 30, 2009, 09:08:24 PM
                                                       TRIGGER  :+1: Martin
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: Mikeymac on December 01, 2009, 12:13:43 AM
"ROGUE"
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: flatlander on December 01, 2009, 12:40:09 AM
Often the same kind of personalities that are a little wreckless, are the most creative.
My old L-10 is pretty banged up, mainly from 20+ years ago, playing a lot almost every night, living in a very small house and carrying it all over the place and gigging. Doesn't bother me at all, never did. Love of my life, yes, outlasting the women. (The one that lasts is still here in my hands)
Gallagher was scratched and banged a little when I got it. Not a factor. I even added a mark myself somehow. It's a great, great guitar.
000-60 is pretty pristine. That's ok too. Either way, play the dang things.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: Johnny M on December 01, 2009, 01:25:09 AM
My 2 guitars and mandolin are left out in the living room all the time.  If they're close by, I grab them.  If they are in their cases, I don't.  Add 2 small kids to the mix and small things happen.  So be it.  Yes, the first ding on a new guitar is the painful, but it's also like a christening of sorts.  I take care of my instruments, but they are here to make music first and formost.  It's taken a while to get to this point as I was trading a lot of guitars when I started playing guitar seriously 5 years ago.  Now that I've found 2 I am happy with, I suspect they will be around for quite a while and maybe even handed down ... with dings, scars, and god forbid, maybe buckle rash  :winkin:

John
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: dermot on December 01, 2009, 10:09:45 AM
hummmmm.....

Well i looked over my only Larrivee last night, and so far no dings to report.... same with the Webber... given that those two get the most play time, and have sat out on stands for years i guess it's the "no kids at home" factor in play... they certainly get allot of play time, when i'm on the road lately the Webber comes along, it's been to Shanghai, Delhi, Sydney, London, NYC, LA, Dublin, Ibiza, Berlin, Surfer's Paradise, Belfast.. even Las Vegas.. but no dings, scars or similar to report for all those air miles.  When the forum 3 gathering was in town both the Webber and the OM19 were loaned to visting folks, and at Mike's houses later they were passed around to everyone in the room.. still no dings.... some strum marks that buffed out in 30 seconds was it....

A few weeks ago i wrote about a guy who showed up at an open mic night with a case that looked like it had been dragged up and down the Alaska highway tied to the bumper of a truck... and inside was a pristine early C10.   So on the weekend i had a chance to see Valdy play, he has another older C10, and he started talking about it, it's one of a pair Jean made - the very first cutaways, one was for him, and one was for Bruce Cockburn, he is still gigging his daily, 200+ shows a year, and the other one? The one built for Bruce? He called his friend who owns it up on stage... yup it's the same guy with the pristine C10 from the open mic night, they are easily noticed as they have unique inlayed headstocks, not done by Wendy...

So i guess the theory that you have to "scar up your guitar if you play it" is one that Valdy, Bruce and the current owner never learned, maybe they don't really play em? Naaaaaa....  they get played, played very well, played daily.

Valdy uses a Calton case for his C10, we both recommend them if you are traveling with a guitar allot, and the case cover does lower the profile a fair bit, worth it for that alone in my eyes.

I'm making a case that a clean guitar means that it's a clean guitar - full stop, nothing more, no values, bagage, or subtext added re; the player ability to play the instrument in question.

d.



Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: Yoyodyne on December 01, 2009, 10:22:13 AM
Quote from: dermot on December 01, 2009, 10:09:45 AM
I'm making a case that a clean guitar means that it's a clean guitar - full stop, nothing more, no values, bagage, or subtext added re; the player ability to play the instrument in question.
:+1:
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on December 01, 2009, 10:45:23 AM
Quote from: dermot on December 01, 2009, 10:09:45 AM
I'm making a case that a clean guitar means that it's a clean guitar - full stop, nothing more, no values, bagage, or subtext added re; the player ability to play the instrument in question.

d.

Entirely possible that a guitar that gets played a lot can remain virtually pristine, I don't doubt or deny that. A friend of mine who is one of the best guitarists I know has an app. 17 year old SCGC that is nearly pristine, other than a few pick swirls and some fingerboard wear, and he gigs with it nearly daily. However, the more a guitar is out the case the more likely it is to get dinged and bumped and PLAYED. I guess my point is that a ding and getting played is far preferable than a wonderful instrument that meets its fate in a case under some bed when some guitarist somewhere could be playing the crap out of it. To each their own value system.......................

As far as the case cover to covertly disguise the Carlton, I understand that as well. I understand the need for folks that travel a lot or who are touring performers to have a solid case for protection of the instrument as well. I think it is just the materialistic nature of folks that really don't need to have a case cover or a Carlton, but just have to have them to posses them while the guitar sits virtually idle that bugs me. It's like some people feel that by purchasing material goods they are automatically granted admittance to some club they wish to belong to but don't have the fortitude to do what is necessary to actually become proficient at the pursuit in which the club members engage.

I saw the same mentality when I used to long distance hike. I'd see weekend warriors come out with 2000 dollars worth of ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY gear that the magazines told them they just had to have to beat up on Ma Nature. Then, I saw myself and my friends, who I had been hiking with for months, manage quite well with 20 pounds of  homemade gear because we actually knew what we were doing and why we were out in the backcountry in the first place. Yup, different values I guess.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: cke on December 01, 2009, 01:26:55 PM
Hey GA-ME, I seem to have been the one who ticked you off about trying to keep my git AND case in nice shape for as long as possible.  Why is trying to do so exclusive of trying first to serve the music?

My gits all get played as much as possible - but now live in cases because I live in a really dry climate. I would rather be a bit inconvenienced  and reduce damage. The instruments are built to last generations. Why not treat them with care?

Dings and worse happen in the course of life and use. Fine. You are lucky that you can do your own repairs. I can't, so the bad one's cost me serious money; why waste it when a little care will go along way.

And is it so bad to appreciate the beauty and craft that go into quality work?
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on December 01, 2009, 01:53:13 PM
Hey CKE it is not you, or necessarily your post, specifically that kind of "ticked" me off as you said.  Perhaps, I am crankier than usual with the rain and cold sending my neuropathic pain levels up the last couple of days. Sometimes, I think I spend way to much time on this forum and tend to catalog what I perceive to be silliness until my head wants to explode, only to end up posting things other folks look at as silliness, as well, which probably makes others' heads want to expode. Lets just say, I hate consumerism for the sake of consumerism. That is to say, buying things just so someone can make like Gollum and stare at their objects thinking "My little Precious", as much I I despise the concept of diversity being foisted upon folks simply for the sake of diversity. What can I say, I'm wired a bit off kilter and sometimes I just can't maintain the cover. So in a nutshell, I have nothing personal against you, nor against almost everyone else on the Forum.

As far as being lucky I can do my repairs, luck has nothing to do with it. I decided to learn how to do it, because I wanted to know how to do it. Any one else, with reasonable intellectual capacity and a strong desire, can repair or build their own instruments as well.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: Danny on December 01, 2009, 03:57:28 PM
Quote from: GA-ME on December 01, 2009, 01:53:13 PM
Hey CKE it is not you, or necessarily your post, specifically that kind of "ticked" me off as you said.  Perhaps, I am crankier than usual with the rain and cold sending my neuropathic pain levels up the last couple of days. Sometimes, I think I spend way to much time on this forum and tend to catalog what I perceive to be silliness until my head wants to explode, only to end up posting things other folks look at as silliness, as well, which probably makes others' heads want to expode. Lets just say, I hate consumerism for the sake of consumerism. That is to say, buying things just so someone can make like Gollum and stare at their objects thinking "My little Precious", as much I I despise the concept of diversity being foisted upon folks simply for the sake of diversity. What can I say, I'm wired a bit off kilter and sometimes I just can't maintain the cover. So in a nutshell, I have nothing personal against you, nor against almost everyone else on the Forum.

As far as being lucky I can do my repairs, luck has nothing to do with it. I decided to learn how to do it, because I wanted to know how to do it. Any one else, with reasonable intellectual capacity and a strong desire, can repair or build their own instruments as well.
Heh, does this mean there is an infectious disease that can be caught by spending too much time here?
               Cause everything you said makes total common sense to me.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 01, 2009, 04:26:47 PM
Quote from: GA-ME on December 01, 2009, 01:53:13 PM
Hey CKE it is not you, or necessarily your post, specifically that kind of "ticked" me off as you said.  Perhaps, I am crankier than usual with the rain and cold sending my neuropathic pain levels up the last couple of days. Sometimes, I think I spend way to much time on this forum and tend to catalog what I perceive to be silliness until my head wants to explode, only to end up posting things other folks look at as silliness, as well, which probably makes others' heads want to expode. Lets just say, I hate consumerism for the sake of consumerism. That is to say, buying things just so someone can make like Gollum and stare at their objects thinking "My little Precious", as much I I despise the concept of diversity being foisted upon folks simply for the sake of diversity. What can I say, I'm wired a bit off kilter and sometimes I just can't maintain the cover. So in a nutshell, I have nothing personal against you, nor against almost everyone else on the Forum.

As far as being lucky I can do my repairs, luck has nothing to do with it. I decided to learn how to do it, because I wanted to know how to do it. Any one else, with reasonable intellectual capacity and a strong desire, can repair or build their own instruments as well.
I guess we all have to accept we are all wired a little differently ( and that's a good thing) and an attempt to correlate an individuals play ability ( or lack of)with whether one takes many precautions to protect one's instrument is somewhat offensive and judgemental. Heck if someone wants to buy a guitar and put it in a glass case on the wall and view it as a piece of art who the heck are we to judge that person? IMHO some of the gits on this forum in such a display are lot prettier to my eye then many Picasso's I've seen BUT that's just my opinion. To judge others leaves one on a very slippery slope. I am done with this topic!!!!
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: cke on December 01, 2009, 09:51:34 PM
I like GA-ME when he is more reasoned - and he makes sense. I would disagree with the implication that mere desire and practice can lead to expertise. There are certain things I do extremely well - and carpentry at ANY level isn't one of them!

What I find absurd are efforts like the Martin D-100. All that ridiculous bling that doesn't add an ounce to the sound. And the price!! It would be ridiculous to play it.  Therefore I can't imagine ever wanting to own it.

GA-ME I am very sorry about your pain. I have chronic pain, too, but I'm sure nothing like you are dealing with. And mine is has never interfered with my playing.

Okay, everybody...deep cleansing breathes...focus on the music...

Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: Mr_LV19E on December 02, 2009, 01:38:22 AM
Quote from: GA-ME on December 01, 2009, 01:53:13 PM
So in a nutshell, I have nothing personal against you, nor against almost everyone else on the Forum.


:roll
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: vates on December 02, 2009, 04:07:45 AM
Just like to add one more point to be considered:
Every guitar has its own ding-karma, even if played by the same player ;)
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on December 02, 2009, 08:05:37 AM
Quote from: cke on December 01, 2009, 09:51:34 PM
I would disagree with the implication that mere desire and practice can lead to expertise.

Strong desire and practice ARE what ALWAYS lead to expertise. I still assert there are doers and excuse makers. Doers simply decide they want to accomplish something and they set about doing it. Excuse makers simply lack real desire and the motivation to actually learn how to complete some difficult task and set about wasting energy coming up with the excuses for their failure to achieve their "goal." The excuses serve to ease their dissonance when faced with failure resulting from their lack of discipline. The world is full of folks short on natural ability, but flush with real desire, focus and motivation. The world is also full of folks flush with LOTS of natural ability, but short on real desire, focus, and motivation. I'll let you guess at which group will become the experts in any gven pursuit.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: BenF on December 02, 2009, 08:10:47 AM
Quote from: GA-ME on December 02, 2009, 08:05:37 AM
I'll let you guess at which group will become the experts in any gven pursuit.

Not sure I agree with you there Jonathan, I believe that the experts at anything are generally those that have natural ability AND drive and determination.  Hence why there are so few experts.

having limited natural talent, but having the drive and determination to succeed comes a close second usually.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on December 02, 2009, 09:12:47 AM
Ben:    "We agree that expert performance is qualitatively different from normal performance and even that expert performers have characteristics and abilities that are qualitatively different from or at least outside the range of those of normal adults. However, we deny that these differences are immutable, that is, due to innate talent. Only a few exceptions, most notably height, are genetically prescribed. Instead, we argue that the differences between expert performers and normal adults reflect a life-long period of deliberate effort to improve performance in a specific domain." (Ericsson, K. Anders,  Krampe, Ralf Th. and Tesch-Romer,Clemens,  Psychological Review, 1993, Vol. 100. No. 3, 363-406)

Complete article: http://projects.ict.usc.edu/itw/gel/EricssonDeliberatePracticePR93.pdf

This is a singular study, but there is a large body of research and most of it refutes the idea of innate ability and instead seems to indicate that about 10 years and 10,000 hours of focused, determined, effort is what accounts for "expertness"  YMMV, but I certainly prefer the theoretical framework which asserts that my ability to achieve is determined by my effort and not some genetic lottery.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: BenF on December 02, 2009, 09:27:56 AM
It's certainly a very positive notion to direct towards many aspects of life in general.

I guess I look at things from my golf related background.  Not seeking to be big headed, but I had bundles of natural ability, but limited focus and desire to do it all my life.  Others around me had to work hard to compete with me.  Some continued to work hard, and have made progress in the professional game.  However, I see no future for them to this day other than a journeyman role on national golf tours, because they still lack that underlying natural talent.

They will make a good living, and to Mr Average they will be 'experts'.  They ain't no Tiger Woods though (reference is still golf, not driving a car in a straight line).
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: flatlander on December 02, 2009, 09:48:04 AM
Yes Ben, At least with guitar, the top of the heap almost always have three things going for them.
They started young, so brain and muscles grew with instrument, they had natural ability AND they worked very hard on it. GA-ME's attitude is correct though to me.
As far  as original topic I used to get frustrated or shake my head at people with a bunch of instruments they couldn't play well and spent more time thinking about buying new ones, being obsessed with wood types ect and not spending time practicing.
I got over that.
A good friend of mine and a great guy was always buying, selling spending all this time about details of build,
what plant they were made in ect. Yet when I showed him valuable stuff from my limited arsenal, he never really listened or practiced. This includes stuff I took time to write out. I realized how stupid it was of me to be a smart axx about it, or have any negitive feelings about it at all.
The players will be players and the hobbiest will be hobbiest, and that's all just fine.
I am glad my 000-60 is in really good shape though, as I may sell it one day. The other 2 really meet all my needs/wants and I could get something else with money from it.
Seeing GA-ME just added post I'll say this. I basically disagree with that from experience, at least concerning music.
I started as a teenager and practiced hours everyday. Lots of times 4-6 hours. Others picked up guitar and quickly played circles around me. My lead guitar player, when we were in our 20's, didn't know the names of even open chords. (he did know how to play them) His leads were almost always multiple notes at same time, all over neck. Double stops, thirds ect. He had no idea what he was doing he just did it. It wasn't til MANY years later as I continued working and studying, that I understood that what he had was a natural ability to see many different harmony options. Now I do that a lot, but still not as well as him. He still at 50 years old, can't explain what he's doing. I had to study and understand it and it just came natually to him.
Also there are emotional items that are the roll of the diice, that give you the drive to play. I often thought, and relating to myself at least, that sometimes people are filling a void when they are driven to play. Being hurt as I was after my first marraige split, brought out drive AND creativity. On the other hand some people are filled with a positive energy that needs released. So I don't know how the Dr's concluded what they did, but from my experience, I'd have to disagree.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: BenF on December 02, 2009, 09:59:10 AM
I will keep seeking to be as good as I can be by the time I leave this world.  In reference to the thread topic, if that means my guitar wears out and gets a few dings along the way, so be it.

Achievement is better than stuff.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: cke on December 02, 2009, 12:45:05 PM
I agree that determination and perseverance go along way; and MAY lead to competence. But they can't alone make someone great at something.  It can help make up for shortcomings.

Talent is that extra something that many possess for certain activities and it is sadly true that many waste it. GA-ME is to be admired for great drive and focus.

I come from a family of fine carpenters. No matter what they showed me or how much I tried, adequate was the best I ever achieved. That talent skipped me.

As Dirty Harry said, "A man has got to know his limitations."

And another annoying quote thrown at me germane to the topic of this thread, "Take care of your tools and they will take care of you."
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: BenF on December 02, 2009, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: cke on December 02, 2009, 12:45:05 PM
GA-ME is to be admired for great drive and focus.
and a good deal of talent
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on December 02, 2009, 01:40:25 PM
 I guess that what it comes down to is I believe I can, and most frequently, I am correct. Others choose to believe they can't, and guess what, they are usually correct as well. It's funny the way that works.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: cke on December 02, 2009, 01:51:14 PM
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: GA-ME on December 02, 2009, 01:59:35 PM
Quote from: cke on December 02, 2009, 01:51:14 PM
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

:+1:
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: BenF on December 02, 2009, 02:33:32 PM
My geography teacher used to say there is no right or wrong, provided you are good at arguing.
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: flatlander on December 02, 2009, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: GA-ME on December 02, 2009, 01:40:25 PM
I guess that what it comes down to is I believe I can, and most frequently, I am correct. Others choose to believe they can't, and guess what, they are usually correct as well. It's funny the way that works.
Yes the mind is a powerful and mysterious thing. The trick is getting yourself or others to believe
in yourself. Once you do you're on your way.
Discipline/drive is in the mix there as well
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: guitargeorge on December 06, 2009, 06:17:56 PM
I have to agree with the OP about lovebites...guitars are made for playing...as much as I love a pristine guitar.  Funny how people are paying a premium for relic electgric guitars...brand new guitars that are scratched up on purpose to make them look old.  Ever seen an old Martin?  Beat up, cracked, finish worn through...but the sound!

I've had a D-10 (with a relatively rare engelmann top) for 11 years...near mint...not played enough!  I have several other guitars both electric and acoustic so none of them get played enough.  I had this D-10 loaned to another guitar player who was currently without a guitar and I instructed him on humidfying the guitar...anyway the guitar developed a top center seam crack...ouch!  He said he heard it happen...the guitar was in the case with case open and he heard a sound like a string plucked...and there it was.

The guitar is at a luthiers for repair.  I don't think it will effect the sound and I'll have to see how it looks when I get it back.  Funny thing is that it was not very dry when the crack happened but I assume it is a humdity issue.  But there was something about that seam that always bothered me...
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: Mr_LV19E on December 07, 2009, 01:21:21 PM
guitargeorge, is it true you know all the chords?
Title: Re: Larrivee lovebites
Post by: guitargeorge on December 07, 2009, 05:07:15 PM
Knopler fan?  I am.

Don't know all the chords but I make up a lot of my own chords...

Ever try to play Jazz where they change the chord on the beat?  That stuff is hard!