I just noticed that there are some Rosewood D-50's out in the wild. Anybody know the story?
From what I can gather, Larrivee introduced some bluegrass models in 1993, and killed them around 1995, and then reintroduced the current -50 and -60 models more recently with some changes.
The model numbers -50, -60, and -70 apparently referred to trim levels in 1993 rather than tonewoods, but I can't figure out exactly what the model designation meant or how the old bluegrass models differ from the current traditional series.
Help? :donut :donut2
You can use that wayback machine to get some older text, but you've got most of what I know already. I've asked Larrivee for more details--beginning in January--but haven't heard back. I gave them my serial and model # in March, and that's the last I've heard.
I've got the D-50 from that period, possibly the only lefty. Canadian made. Traded my beloved D-03R and cash for it. It's just a gorgeous guitar. I brought it to a jam recently, all Larrivee owners, and the consensus was that it might be Larrivee's best dread ever. Thin neck profile, 1 3/4" at the nut--perfect for my short but imprecise fingers. It's got the JCL-preferred combo of sitka and rosewood, with an enlarged soundhole. Deep bass, but also pronounced mids and highs. Great, thin finish. It's got Larrivee's original classical rosette, and inlay only in the name on the headstock. Some in the series apparently had elaborate inlay, the higher numbers did, I think. But I prefer understatement. One of the guys at the jam thought the rosette may have been wood inlay as well. Whether inlay or decal, it's very good-looking (but amazing if it's inlay). I took off the clear pickguard and put on a Larrivee tortis. According to Larrivee, the absence of the visible pickguard may have doomed the series. But it's an extraordinary instrument. I have not heard another, however, or seen one except in pictures.
The fellow I got it from told me he spoke with JCL throughout the build, and got his personal guarantee of satisfaction. I could never have sold this one, and never will. But he also has an HD-28 and two custom builds. Probably listed at or near $3K around '94. Here are some pix, with the new pickguard. I've since put Gotoh 510s on it. I've still got the Schallers, and the original pickguard. But I won't be giving this one up and hope to leave to a lefty grandson or daughter. http://s728.photobucket.com/albums/ww289/leftync_photos/Larrivee%20D-50/
Obviously Larrivee's current lines are terrific--I've owned two 03s--but for me the neck makes this perfect. I had some fretwork and setup done, but it's in great shape; a good sign for all Larrivee owners. I feel very privileged to own play this one.
Wow, that's a beauty. Thanks for the info. I prefer 1-3/4" on dreads as well, but that and the neck profile appear to be the main differences between the old series and the new.
BTW, that rosette is definitely not a decal. That's Larrivee's marquetry. Each of those "pixels" is an individual piece of wood. I love that style!
Unfortunately, the wayback machine only goes back to 1996, and these models don't appear on the first archive of Larrivee's site.
The pages don't go back that far, but you can read an explanation of the series and its demise, pretty much the same as you state it now. I'm not an expert on necks, but I think both Larrivee and Taylor used to have thinner neck profiles. Don't know how my neck matches with Martin's slim neck profile. Most Martin and all Larrivee dreads (except slotheads like yours) are 1 11/16" at the nut. Taylors and Gibsons are 1 3/4". I loved the D-03R, but I needed the wider neck and I might have traded for a Martin, Taylor or Gibson (if I could find a lefty). Happy to have found a Larrivee. I bought an L-03RE, but never liked it as much as either dread, although it was a fine guitar.
That's great about the rosette. Imagine the time that must have gone into that (I'd have been fine with a decal, or with herringbone). This D-50 really is a work of art.
Hoping to find a lefty parlor cheap to keep at work and to balance the dread, like you have.
Quote from: leftync on August 20, 2009, 02:50:07 PM
That's great about the rosette. Imagine the time that must have gone into that (I'd have been fine with a decal, or with herringbone). This D-50 really is a work of art.
This is the same rosette that's on my JCL 40th Anniversary Reissue. Apparently, they create this marquetry by laying thin strips in sequence to form a log, from which they cut rings to be inlayed on the top. At least that's what I've been told....
jb
jb - you are right - standard practice was to rip lots thin strips. then glue them up into levels, and then glue the levels up into blocks, then slice off the end of the blocks into tiles, and assemble the tiles into rosettes - very similar to the technique used on the herringbone binding and rosettes. It was a specialized job, used to help train apprentices a VERY long time ago -
Tad
Good picture of the marquetry materials here:
http://www.dominelliguitars.com/public/userimages/rosette_tiles_001.jpg
Quote from: gitnoob on August 20, 2009, 03:33:25 PM
Good picture of the marquetry materials here:
http://www.dominelliguitars.com/public/userimages/rosette_tiles_001.jpg
Excellent! Thanks for the pics, gitnoob,
That is a great example for demonstrating how these rosettes are constructed. It allows me to appreciate the artistry and detail even more...
Wow. Seems like an awful lot of work (for something I didn't even appreciate until today!). Love this guitar, and love learning from this forum.
You know, not to disagree with all, but if you look @ the link for the marquetry & after studying your rosette closely, yours seems too precise to be an inlay. If you notice on the link, everything is not exact. I studied yours for a while, going pixel by pixel, & there is absolutely no variation in the inlay, something you'd expect on a wood one esp.. Looks too muck like a decal when compared to other rosettes I've seen. Look @ each little design, then compare that one to all of the other ones like it. No variation @ all. It does look like other Larrivee rosettes I've seen, but they had that "hand-inlaid" look. I know everyone is going to disagree, but study your rosette VERY closely for ANY variation. Can't find it. I know you said you didn't care, nor would I, the inlay being a bonus. Just have to express what I see & state it? :?
Except upon VERY close inspection, it looks like an inlay. So, just say it is. Just look really closely & let us know if you see what would be the usual variation (even slight) in the wood. Can't see it, but you'll be holding the guitar real close? :blush: Nice guitar, no matter what. My L-10 is a '93, was worked on alot by Jean (my luthier had an inside man back then), & is just an amazing guitar. Makes me wonder what it would sound like with an enlarged soundhole? :nice guitar:
Jeff :guitar
Well, it was your cousin and protege, Bluesman67, who said it was inlaid. He felt he could see the wood pieces. My son had suggested it too, while looking at the guitar closely. I hadn't given it any thought, but it certainly adds to the guitar's magic if it's true.
This series had heavy inlay all around. I've seen photos of some amazing examples. Mine's just the name on the headstock and, maybe, the rosette. I'm not a big bling fan, so this plainer look is perfect for me. I'm guessing that Jean had the luxury of spending more time building back then. I've told this story before, but I believe I was with Peter Yarrow at the time he saw his first Larrivees in '73. I was a college reporter in Boston hanging around with him before a show, and a couple of young singers he knew visited, showing off their new hand-made guitars. He bought his legendary Larrivee later that year. I'll bet JCL built that one entirely by himself; Yarrow's given a few as gifts, also, I've read (we're no longer in touch). I love that my friend Mark P. was able to call Jean and get updates while this guitar was being made, like you did.
I'd love to see pix of your L. I wouldn't mess with the soundhole. At first I didn't like mine much, b/e I'd gotten used to the growl of my D-03R, kind of like a Martin, but more balanced. The D-50 probably differs in greater note articulation, while still having the power and bass of a dread. It's great for me. I just seem happier with dreads. Never bonded with the L, although I can understand why so many do and it is an extremely comfortable guitar.
Its an inlay - perfect is just the opening requirement - here is a sample of some I found -
http://www.dukeluthier.com/main.sc;jsessionid=01A80FC9BCC30D969BE2B6E84038ACDD.qscstrfrnt01
Tad
L, here's a closer look @ my headstock inlay. And a pic of the body about a year after I got it. The rosette is abalone, so I know that is inlaid! Never said I was right, just my impression! It is done so perfectly, if inlaid, it's amazing! :thumb
Jeff :guitar
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Yeah, when I said some of those were elaborate, that's what I was talking about. I'm sure I've seen those pix before. Wow, that's a lot of inlay. And while my tastes run plainer, the skill required for that kind of work would seem considerable. Hard to believe yours and mine come from the same litter. Do you think it was Wendy Larrivee herself doing the work?
Here's the story. Wendy was thinking of going back to school around the time I was thinking of ordering mine. My luthier knew Jean & had some inside connections also. I ordered it as soon as I heard this about her, being told she would do all of my inlay work. And that Jean would take special interest in my guitar (never heard how much he worked on it, just more than usual). Spoke to Wendy on the phone last year & mentioned this story. She just laughed & said, "as you can see, I'm still here".This was my a little overboard guitar. I've noticed a slight change in the genie inlay over the years, buthat is to be expected. You also had a choice of topless or with a top back then!Didn't want to do a D-45 thing, so only had the -10 series inlay around the top. I, also, prefer the simple, mosaic ones like yours, or even a minimalist HB hand inlaid. My '94 J-09 had an inlay like yours, so sorry for doubting all. Just can't remember if it was that perfect? Yours is gorgeous, mine is artsy-farsty in it's own way. Loved the rosette on the 40th anniversary ones. Just like yours. Also like the custom builders specialty mosaics they make for themselves. Kinda like yours. Just like, kinda, bottom line is yours is sweet! :thumb
Jeff :guitar
Here's a bad pic of my '94 J-09, in which you can see the inlay.
[attachment deleted by admin]
A little overboard? I think that's actually Pearl's mom on the headstock!
You know, having Wendy Larrivee do the inlay is an incentive for elaborate design. But you're ready for Opryland or Branson! I'll bet people draw a deep breath when they see it for the first time. And since it's a well-played Larrivee, the sound is a given.
What did these things cost back then I had the impression they listed about $3K, and could be bought at just under $2K, probably add a grand to both today. Yours might have been more b/e of all the added labor.
Mine, with all of the options (genie,different f.b. & bridge inlays) cost me around $2300-2400, that 's with the tax. Hey, @ least I didn't get the vine inlay on the fingerboard! That would have been too much. Just by adding the genie, it suddenly becomes"overboard" & not "sweet"? I had gotten an L-09 & L-05 to hold me over until my build was finished. Had Larrivee fever & just had fallen in love with them. My luthier was one of the first, if not the first, in CT to carry Larrivee. Thus the special relationship with Jean & family. When I would pull out my -09 & -05, people would just stare @ them (esp. since I play backwards!) & ask where they came from. Then they played them. Their jaws would drop, esp. when I told them the price. Sold my -09 when I got the L-10, Keeping the -05 for a while. Yes, when I would take the L-10 out, people just had to play it & go over every inch of it, just amazed @ the craftsmanship & sound. If I had to do it again, I would settle on the classic Larrivee vine inlay on the headstock. Beautiful, but simple. Still love my genie & am always running my fingers over it to see which material were affected the most by time & humidity changes. Wood, MOP, abalone, bone, silver, etc., all settling differently over the years.
I did think mine was alot back then, but all seemed right when the extras were added on. The genie was $600 alone, one I had to think about alot. Thought it was a little too much maybe, but finally decided that since Wendy was doing it, I could consider it a work of art. Still do. As far as the country places, their's make mine look simple! Maybe I should have gotten my name inlaid in the fretboard too? It's funny, alot of those players that have those overdone Martins don't do much more than hold them, sing, & strum a few chords. Just a for show & so when they've had too much to drink, they know which guitar is theirs! :humour:
Still love your rosette. The Sam Ash 40th model had a nice mosaic inlay, which I really dug. It sat for almost 2 years, I wanted it, couldn't swing it with the F-III build going on, then after dropping the price to $1800 & having a 20& off sale, it flew out. Still sorry I missed that one. It was one sweet playing & sounding guitar! Have had 8 Larrivees since being introduced to them, keeping my L-10 & now the F-III, that one just being an amazing guitar. Have to play one to really appreciate them! :thumb
Jeff :guitar
I got the D-50 when they were ordering the Forum IIIs. No money, and I prefer big to small. But I would probably prefer it to the parlor I just got, although the parlor is smaller and maybe better for my office and to play in an armchair. I can't imagine getting a forum for anywhere near what I paid for the parlor, though. But that Forum is striking, and I love the simple, beautiful wood. I saw one at the recent Larrivee jam we had in Cary, NC.
The parlor will be my 4th Larrivee, and the second one I've got now. The D-50 will remain my main guitar, the parlor is just for tight quarters, and I'll probably have to sell my backup dread, a nice Seagull M6, to help pay for it. But if I can't get much for the Seagull, at least $300, it's probably not worth selling.
As far as the genie goes, I can see the attraction to a piece of history, as WL did the artwork herself. It's funny, Larrivee says the early bluegrass dread line mine failed to catch on b/e it didn't look like the Martins, too simplistic. So in the same series we see both simple and ornate. I know it's not historically correct to have changed the clear pickguard to a tortis, but I think it really adds to the look of the D-50. Don't know what I'd do if I had the FIII, as it looks good with or w/o the guard.
The guy that's selling the parlor says he just bought a 50-year old Martin 0-18. That must be an awesome guitar.
Quote from: leftync on August 23, 2009, 04:03:11 PM
I saw one at the recent Larrivee jam we had in Cary, NC.
Actually there were four forum guitars there. My mahogany/spruce Forum I (OM) and Joseph's hogtop Forum I. There also was my hogtop cutaway Forum III and a rosewood/Italian Forum III. You must be referring to Joseph's southpaw hogtop OM?
I meant the FIII. You're correct. Some really awesome stuff, a lot of it yours. That was a sweet sounding and good looking Gibson.
Nobody was curious why I was so interested about rosewood D-50's, eh? Well, I'll tell you anyway. :bgrin:
(http://i31.tinypic.com/ayppfm.jpg)
(http://i26.tinypic.com/e00vgh.jpg)
(http://i28.tinypic.com/x5e3bt.jpg)
Nice straight-grained Braz, don't you think? And I wear a turban whenever I play her. :bowdown:
I think it's awesome. Is that one from the 90s? Mine's EIR, not braz, and much plainer. That is a beautiful guitar, and I'll bet it sounds great. I'd love to see more of the guitars from this period.
Looks like future GOTM or LOTM material to me. Walkerman suggested Larrivee of the month now that all Larrivee instruments are eligible for nomination.
Congrats! :nice guitar:
Norman
Thanks, guys. My wife says it's my birthday present. :smile:
Quote from: leftync on August 25, 2009, 09:15:34 PM
Is that one from the 90s? Mine's EIR, not braz, and much plainer. That is a beautiful guitar, and I'll bet it sounds great. I'd love to see more of the guitars from this period.
Yes, I'm sure it's a relative of yours. S/N is 136XX, so I'm guessing 1993-1994. What's yours?
The volume doesn't knock me off my feet like the SD-50 does, but it's got strong bass, good balance, and great projection. If it wasn't for the crazy bling, it'd be the perfect everyday git. And I LOVE the neck and the 1-3/4" nut -- perfect for fingerpicking. I don't think my ear can distinguish between Braz and EIR, but I consider it part of the bling. Just a bit over-the-top, but not a show piece.
Edit: I checked another thread, and I can safely say mine was built in 1993. I wonder what the earliest D-50 s/n might be....
I think around 93. The serial number is within the first 15,000 Larrivees. The guy that sold it thought he'd ordered it about 10 years ago, but I think he just didn't remember. It's closer to 20 years, as best I can figure. I think I posted these earlier, but take a look and compare. http://s728.photobucket.com/albums/ww289/leftync_photos/Larrivee%20D-50/
I asked Larrivee for some more info, but I've never heard back. Maybe you'll have better luck. I consider mone to be the ultimate guitar for me, and I'm sure you do as well.
Can't believe no one appreciated my joke about how that's actually Pearl's mom on the headstock! I thought that was pretty funny.
I requested a build date from Larrivee, and I haven't received that yet, but I did get a quick reply from the original author of the 50-series history that we've seen elsewhere.
QuoteThere are a number of visual differences on the guitars. The originals were "dressed" like a standard D guitar with lots of abalone trim. The modern ones have the traditional martin style appointments like a headstock volute, herringbone trim, diamond inlays, etc..
Mine has abalone while yours has marquetry. Your rosette could have been a custom request, or maybe they were making cosmetic changes towards the end of the 90's series.
(Oh, and that was a good mother-of-pearl joke. :tongue:)
I've got to believe yours was custom as well, with that intricate inlay and especially the braz b&s. I think the new ones are great-looking, but I'm glad I've got this older one.