Hey, this guitar's  (http://cgi.ebay.com/Guild-Contemporary-CV-1C-Acoustic-Guitar-w-D-TAR-System_W0QQitemZ400028917759QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item400028917759&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)body shape looks familiar, where have i seen this before??  :roll

(http://i9.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/2f/c2/14ea_35.JPG)

I don't understand why they would use a top with run out on a guitar that expensive. Then again, I don't understand why Larrivee used one on my Bubinga. I mean, if you are only making fifty...  None of my other gits have this issue although my S.O. has run out on the back. For under a grand it doesn't bother me, ok, yes ot does, but not enough to be a deal breaker. But this is supposed to be Guilds brand new magic neck and whatnot, why skimp on the top?

Or is it really not an issue and I'm just picky?

holly

Quote from: strawintogold on February 15, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
I don't understand why they would use a top with run out on a guitar that expensive.

My ignorance on what grain runout is... does this refer to the shading difference between the two halves of the top?

Dave

Yes. If you do a search on the forum for Grain Runout are better explanations than I can offer. It's not a huge deal but i do consider it a bit of an eyesore.

holly

It only matters to someone who is interested more in aesthetics than in acoustics. Flash photographs can make the difference much more noticible in a picture than it is in person as well. Quite frankly, most people are way more concerned with how their guitar looks than how well they are learning to play the instruent.

I've been very impressed with the few Guild Contemorary Series that I've tried; they sound very nice, they are quite functional and reliable.  This series is prettier than their series and past lines ( except for that bulky, pointy bridge), but let's face it most makes aren't anywhere near as stunning as most Larrivees.  The Guild GAD line does nothing for me; the older Guilds are great.  There is some skepticism and hesitation with Guild now that it's been swallowed by Fender, the Giant, and moved it's production to the Ovation facility in CT. 

        DAVE

I apologize if my last post is a bit off track.  Does anyone know if Larrivee deserves credit for the shape, or was it (C Model) introduced earlier by a different builder?

     DAVE

Quote from: GA-ME on February 15, 2009, 02:11:44 PM
It only matters to someone who is interested more in aesthetics than in acoustics. Flash photographs can make the difference much more noticible in a picture than it is in person as well. Quite frankly, most people are way more concerned with how their guitar looks than how well they are learning to play the instruent.

I know this may seem shocking, but some people care about both. I know, amazing, you can care about looks AND want to play. Who woulda thunk it?

But then again, I don't know 'most people' so I won't speak for them. Just for myself and yeah it matters. So what? I have the capacity to care about both aspects.  I've been fortunate and determined enough to have guitars that please both eye and ear and yet, my desire to play and improve my playing hasn't decreased.  It's astounding, I know.

holly

Quote from: ncognito on February 15, 2009, 03:18:01 PM
I apologize if my last post is a bit off track.  Does anyone know if Larrivee deserves credit for the shape, or was it (C Model) introduced earlier by a different builder?

     DAVE

It had been introduced much earlier. Just wasn't well known.

looks more like an OM body than the L or C shape to me. just with the Florentine cutaway.   maybe its just me.

Quote from: KenHolden on February 15, 2009, 09:42:47 PM
looks more like an OM body than the L or C shape to me. just with the Florentine cutaway.   maybe its just me.

I think the reference to C is due to the C having the florentine cutaway.

Quote from: strawintogold on February 15, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
I don't understand why they would use a top with run out on a guitar that expensive...

IMO, Guild guitars have more examples with runout than most other quality brands.  I've owned a couple,
and seen plenty of others.  It does not affect the sound, but I'd prefer a guitar without it.  Rarely
if ever seen on a Larrivee.

I just do not care for the looks of the Florentine cutaway. It looks like someone took a bite out of the guitar. Here...want some coffee with that guitar?  :coffee 

That Guild's shape looks like a good old Grand Auditorium made famous by Taylor to me - except for the Florentine cut-away of course  :winkin:

Wow, lots of wild guesses about the body type here. It is a F30 body type from Guild's line though it matches a 000 pretty closely. If you had to compare to a Larrivee then I would it would definitely be similar to an OM (my Larrivee OM case fit my CO-1)

The model in the ebay link was marked as "CV-1C"

The "C" is for Contemporary and the "V" is for Venetian cutaway. The Guild Contemporary series was probably unfairly colored by Fender's desire to push Guild downmarket. The Contemporary series was an attempt to make some forward progress in guitar design for the company and sported a terrific (IMHO) graphite neck block that was light and promoted great sustain. I have a Guild CO-1 (Cedar Mahogany with Madagascar Rosewood fretboard and saddle) and I think it's supremely playable and warm; the finish is great. This thing LOVES the blues and it has put a smile on every single person who's picked it up. I have had NONE of the neck problems or any of the quality problems that the crabby Guild Forum members gripe about incessantly. I may be proven wrong in time if the thing implodes but until then I have a guitar with terrific tone and everyone else has their ignorance.

Actually I have a Guild GAD-50E and while these guitars are not in the same class as the Contemporary Series, mine (one of the earlier ones in the line) can bury most of the DV series. It still has too much finish on it to let its true character shine, but it sounds great regardless. Also, I'm really glad that some people on the forum have warmed up to the D-50, some of the gits I've played in this line had terrific trebles and presence.

It really pisses me off to see the Guild Contemporary Series right off the list of current models since every one I've ever tried sounds as good or better than their Traditional Series F bodies. I think most people buy guitars with their egos rather than their ears and entire lines of excellent production guitars get completely overlooked. I'm not sure if I should be frustrated by Fender's narrow-mindedness or the vast ignorance of the guitar-buying market. Present forum excluded from my rant.  :bgrin:

Quote from: limnephilidae on February 18, 2009, 12:55:40 AM

It really pisses me off to see the Guild Contemporary Series right off the list of current models since every one I've ever tried sounds as good or better than their Traditional Series F bodies. I think most people buy guitars with their egos rather than their ears and entire lines of excellent production guitars get completely overlooked. I'm not sure if I should be frustrated by Fender's narrow-mindedness or the vast ignorance of the guitar-buying market. Present forum excluded from my rant.  :bgrin:

I always wanted a CO-1, haven't ever seen one in a store though. Maybe yours will be worth more down the line when people want them because they are a discontinued model that had a limited run (in comparative terms).

The few Guild contemporary series I've heard and tried were exceptional.  I'm I hearing correctly that Fender is discontinuing this line?  If so, what a big mistake that is IMHO. 

        DAVE

I wonder if they are discontinuing the series because of the graphite neck issues and plan and re introducing it when those are addressed? While some owners have had no problems, more than a few have and I know a couple dealers who returned what they had and basically said you need to fix this before we order another.

Um, I guess that makes me a crabby Forum Member who gripes incessantly. Although this is the second time I've mentioned it and I've seen it discussed once before, so maybe I'm missing prior incessant grumpiness. I like Guild, doesn't mean I don't find fault with them. I like Larrivee, but it's not a sacred cow. I think it's great that you've had no issue with yours, but ignorant? Really?

It was my desire to own one that led to doing the research and relating with reputable owners and dealers whose opinion I trust. FCOL. my dealer IS a Guild guy and he said to hold off. I don't think he suggested that because he's a big grumpy meany who hates graphite. I would have loved one but decided to wait and see. Four out of seven were not odds I wanted to run with. Maybe it was a batch, who knows? I think all new tech hits a rocky patch and with guitars, the only way you can find out if there's a problem is when they've been played awhile.

I do think it will be making a comeback once they iron out whatever issues they were/are having. I'd love to own one when they do. It's the only shiny guitar I've seen, besides Classicals, that I really like. it doesn't look like it's been dipped in plastic.

holly

Quote from: strawintogold on February 18, 2009, 10:17:25 AM
it doesn't look like it's been dipped in plastic.

Class :laughin: :laughin:

Quote from: strawintogold on February 18, 2009, 10:17:25 AM
I wonder if they are discontinuing the series because of the graphite neck issues and plan and re introducing it when those are addressed? While some owners have had no problems, more than a few have and I know a couple dealers who returned what they had and basically said you need to fix this before we order another.

Um, I guess that makes me a crabby Forum Member who gripes incessantly. Although this is the second time I've mentioned it and I've seen it discussed once before, so maybe I'm missing prior incessant grumpiness. I like Guild, doesn't mean I don't find fault with them. I like Larrivee, but it's not a sacred cow. I think it's great that you've had no issue with yours, but ignorant? Really?

It was my desire to own one that led to doing the research and relating with reputable owners and dealers whose opinion I trust. FCOL. my dealer IS a Guild guy and he said to hold off. I don't think he suggested that because he's a big grumpy meany who hates graphite. I would have loved one but decided to wait and see. Four out of seven were not odds I wanted to run with. Maybe it was a batch, who knows? I think all new tech hits a rocky patch and with guitars, the only way you can find out if there's a problem is when they've been played awhile.

I do think it will be making a comeback once they iron out whatever issues they were/are having. I'd love to own one when they do. It's the only shiny guitar I've seen, besides Classicals, that I really like. it doesn't look like it's been dipped in plastic.

holly

Holly,

As to the crabby forum members, I was referring to the general vibe on the Guild Forum. They complain about the GAD series, Fender, how Guild's will never be like the one they have in their parlor rooms. All of this may be correct but as a new and HAPPY (gasp) CO-1 owner, I thought I'd join and my expectations were set very high from the Larrivee Forum. My hopes were dashed quickly as it felt that post after post was riddled with disgruntled postal workers who just got laid off. Maybe they have every right to be pissed off, but for a community that kind of vibe is arsenic. I never went back after two visits. I find the Larrivee and UMGF forums to be vastly superior because of their communities, and the AGF is still very useful because of their critical mass.

As to the neck issues, I don't doubt that an entirely new design has some problems. I work as a Software Architect for a living and I know the first version ALWAYS has problems (though mostly the problems due to the simple fact that software is designed by fallible people for fallible people who expect that other fallible people can read their minds). I'm also not very shy of statistics and public perception, and I know that even a 5% failure rate is enough to create the impression of a 50% failure rate and lead people to conclude that there was a fundamental design flaw. It's possible that the design was good and that the manufacturing process failed to catch up to the requirements of the new design (there's those fallible people again). The truth is, we don't know what went wrong with that series, it may have been entirely a marketing and sales decision.

And yes, I find a lot of public perception with regards to product "failure" to be colored by single and isolated events, thus ignorant. Most people have little respect for the process of engineering and manufacturing anything on a larger scale. Maybe we all believe deep down that most of the guitars on the market should not be manufactured like cell phones, but they are. If I had your dealer friend's experience then I would no doubt think twice about ordering again, and if I were you I would think twice about buying until you KNEW there wasn't an outstanding design issue. I do not consider you ignorant for this at all (and I'm truly sorry if you felt that way). I get a little miffed that an entire group of people (who deserve a great guitar) will walk by some great engineering (in any field) because of their preconceived notions. In this sense, I am not using ignorant as a pejorative but rather as a descriptive to convey that people (including myself) will walk up to a Martin with a sense of joy and a totally ignore a custom build with no label. I think what upsets me is the indignity of having great work go completely unacknowledged by the market.

Finally, yes, the GAD-50E I have looks like it was dipped in plastic. If I ever needed to stop a bullet then I would reach for this guitar. I feel like I'm tapping on aquarium glass waiting for the sound to swim by. Thankfully what does manage to make it through the armor plating sounds pretty good.

Oh, sorry, lol. I'm sure it was my misunderstanding I'm a little fried.

It sounds like they have a chronic case of old man musings. You know, back in the day, blah, blah. Which is stupid, things evolve. Just because they don't initially evolve successfully doesn't meant they should be discounted. Frankly, I don't see it as a failing on Guild's part at all, I mean, how many airplanes did the Wright Brothers go through?

I for one, hope they work it out because those are pretty guitars. I might be able to work past my bolt on 'thing' if they could tweak the design sucessfully. You know, I'm the kind of person who doesn't want THE BRAND NAME which is why I started looking at Larrivee in the first place. Who wants to have the same guitar everyone else does just because everyone else does? I'm more likely to look at someone whi is trying something new because it tells me there is a creative energy in place.

Don't let the grumblers get you down. Years from now they'll be saying the same thing. Misery loves company, but it's not one I think either of us enjoy.

holly

"I think most people buy guitars with their egos rather than their ears...."   This could not be stated any better. Most fiddle players look at guitars and see perfectly good wood mucked up with plastic finishes. Guitarists by and large buy with eyes not ears!

My friend is a virtouso on several stringed instruments and makes his living performing and repairing instruments. He regularly plays as a solo act on what he considers the best acoustic guitar he has ever owned. It's a SCGC OM in EI Rosewood/ADI and people come up to him all the time and say that guitar sounds great, almost as good as a Martin. He just says thanks while thinking, I'm an authorized Martin service guy and in 40+ years of playing/repairing I've never had a Martin that sounded this good!

He has owned this particular OM for over 15 years now, the longest any guitar has hung around, and says it sounds better than nearly all the highly sought after pre-war Martins he has ever handled. Now, his family used to own several area music stores and when they started out they used to go to Philly, Baltimore, D.C. and raid the pawn shops, in the late fifties, buying up the guitars that are so treasured now for used stock. He has had MANY great guitars in his hands and he says it fascinates him how many people "hear" with their eyes and not ears.

Quote from: GA-ME on February 19, 2009, 09:29:20 AM
"I think most people buy guitars with their egos rather than their ears...."   This could not be stated any better. Most fiddle players look at guitars and see perfectly good wood mucked up with plastic finishes. Guitarists by and large buy with eyes not ears!

My friend is a virtouso on several stringed instruments and makes his living performing and repairing instruments. He regularly plays as a solo act on what he considers the best acoustic guitar he has ever owned. It's a SCGC OM in EI Rosewood/ADI and people come up to him all the time and say that guitar sounds great, almost as good as a Martin. He just says thanks while thinking, I'm an authorized Martin service guy and in 40+ years of playing/repairing I've never had a Martin that sounded this good!

He has owned this particular OM for over 15 years now, the longest any guitar has hung around, and says it sounds better than nearly all the highly sought after pre-war Martins he has ever handled. Now, his family used to own several area music stores and when they started out they used to go to Philly, Baltimore, D.C. and raid the pawn shops, in the late fifties, buying up the guitars that are so treasured now for used stock. He has had MANY great guitars in his hands and he says it fascinates him how many people "hear" with their eyes and not ears.

Very good thoughts GA-ME. I am tring to learn how to "tap" the tops of gits and hear the differences. I don't buy on looks alone myself. In fact the LSV-11 which was the best looking guitar I have owned to date took me the longest time to decide to buy it.
       However I have very high hopes for the soon to be finished F-III, I think looks will be there, although understated. But much more so I believe the sound will be what I want. That's why I did not go for a cut a way, and why I chose Mahogany to compliment the Italian Spruce top.  It seems to me this choice will ''fit me" perfectly.
        If I could afford a SCGC or Collings 00 size I would have it. I believe these smaller companies are making some great sounding gits. (not bad on the eyes either though)

Danny, I feel you on the learning curve. I have been really trying to learn and understand what a Great Guitar means for me. The rebuild of my Soverieign is coming alog nicely and I have learned so much in this proces. The new Adi top and bracing are on and sanded to final thickness. The neck is roughed out and the heel carved and its fitted to the body. I just have to finish carving the neck and pop the fingerboard back off to install the truss rod and then cut the trussrod cavity into the neck block and top.

After that its just a matter of finishing the guitar and  fretting and gluing the neck on and set up. I really learned a lot by voicing the top and bracing. There really is a point, when you take your time, that the top just comes alive. I was shaving braces and shaving braces and gettin nervous and then wammo the top tap tone just seemed to get bell like and a real nice tight note resonating out. I had left the top thick, around .12 and glued it up to the body. The back was way more resonate and musical when tapped than the front was. I wanted it thicker where it met the kerfing, becuase I was letting the tone bars float rather than notching them in.

After all the neck fitting was done I had a couple of dings I needed to steam out and sand down and then I started sanding the top dow with 100 grit. Man, in a few minutes it happened again, the top just came alive and was vibating so musically. When you hold her and talk she just resonates your voice so well. When I hold her close to a radio/stero you can feel the air pumping out of her like someone is blowing breath on your face. I took her to Junior's shop and he said man that is better than I expected you to get her. Its going to sound good. I was high as a kite from his simple statemets. Now, lets just hope she has enough structiral support when I string her up.

I figure when I have completed a doze or two guitars I might start to really know something about this stuff 'cause just the couple of repairs and making this guitar has taught me so much already!

  I'm hoping you have some pics of this to eventually share with us. It would help me and others who are attempting to repair old guitars. In fact my Fender/Sovereign needs repairs, but it has to wait for now. I was told that mine has Brazilian RW fretboard and bridge and Brazilian Mahogany sides and back. So someday I'll make it a smooth player.