I just noticed a crack in the top of my L09 behind the bridge on the bass side.

I humidify the house and the guitar.

Damn, I like that guitar!

That's Always a downer  :crying:

:gotpics:

Bummer -  take it to your luthier and get it checked out - It may need a little patch glued in under there, or it may be no big deal. My LS10 has a crack in about the same place, but according to my guy, between the bracing, bridge, and soundplate, he felt it was not worth doing anything about unless it got alot worse.

just keep playing - and look at Willie Nelsons guitar to get a perspective -

Tad

I'm sad to hear that, Matey, especially when it's your favourite git. I would recommend fixing soon.
Cheers
fongie

YES bring it to a pro and have it checked out.

Quote from: morlll on January 25, 2009, 02:11:35 PM
I just noticed a crack in the top of my L09 behind the bridge on the bass side.

I humidify the house and the guitar.

Damn, I like that guitar!

I guess we all have to monitor the level of humidity at home, sometimes one humidifier is not enough. I would heed unclrob's advice .. take it to a pro. A crack is a weakness in the wood that has to be stemmed.
Good Luck
Cheers

yes, you need to get the top cleated to prevent that crack from spreading.
Having a humidifier is a good first step.
Do you also have a hygrometer, so that you know what the RH% is in your home?

TH\hanks for the ideas, I'll get it fixed really quick. I was going to send it to Larrivee, but the transportation will cost just as much as doing it locally.

It's really a very nice guitar.

It is that time of the year.  I have three cracked guitars in for repair this week already. I cannot explain some of them. My Trinity D developed a crack in the top this fall when it was still very humid out. It spends 95% of its time in the studio where the humidity is finely controlled. In fact i had not played it for about 4 weeks or so and when I took it out to use it there was the crack. It was stored in the shop. No reason for it to crack but it did. Oh well fixed if fast and no additional problems.

Don't laugh, but anyone wonder how much global warming factors into stuff like this? In regard to cold spells and tree growth?

holly

There ya go - Global warming responsible for damaging fine instruments -

That should be worth a government grant, if not to study, to at least give bail-out and recovery assistance.

Who do we contact? EPA, Congress, ??

Tad

Quote from: tadol on January 29, 2009, 11:04:52 AM
There ya go - Global warming responsible for damaging fine instruments -

That should be worth a government grant, if not to study, to at least give bail-out and recovery assistance.

Who do we contact? EPA, Congress, ??

Tad

Well, you can laugh, but why is some wood more desirable than others? Like IS for example? It's not just the wood, it's the weather of the region that makes IS so desirable.

Cold consistent weather effects quality of wood and growth pattern. In warm places, getting warmer and/or warmer longer, would have an impact in grpwth patterns as well. Not just GW but drought, enviroment, soil quality, logging practices,  I would imagine have an impact.

Look at places like Madagascar for example, if the entire enviroment is being effected by all the above factors, why wouldn't the trees? It' smy understanding that wood used for tops come from places that have (or did) consistant cold spells. My understanding is there must be a reason for that. If I'm mistaken, please enlighten me as I'm just sort of pondering.

I'd love to know what guitars will be made out of 100 years from now if things keep heading the direction they seem to be and well, if any of this is related in the first place.

holly

I agree with holly about the many factors affecting the final tone of the tops. Cold climates tend to produce nice sounding tops. But then, how about Adirondack ? Gets cold in the winter, but warms up otherwise. Might be the exception to the rule. But then again, Adir. has been compared to I/S as sounding close. After reading many articles on the tonal quality of spruces, along with the density comparisons, I can't wait to hear how my IS/HOG Forum III will sound in a few years !
holly, ponder all you wish. :smile: It just makes for more interesting posts. Don't stop !
Jeff   :guitar

Thanks,lol.

What I would imagine would have the biggest impact is the longer warm periods and shorter cold snaps. Trees, obviously, grow faster when it's warm. If IS is supposed to be great because it has a long cold period tempered by a shorter warm period. So the growth is slow and steady producing a stiff wood with a tight grain.  I'm curious as to how shorter warmer Winters and longer warm periods might alter this.

holly

This is from John Arnold who you could consider the Red Spruce king.

QuoteBefore you contend that red spruce from NY is superior to that from further south, just consider this:
The Smokies spruce (which is both the oldest and tightest-grained red spruce I have seen anywhere) is from the furthest south, within 15 miles of the southern limit of the red spruce range.
There are lots of factors that determine growth rate, not just temperature. What the average temperature does do is limit the range. Here in the south, red spruce doesn't grow below 4500 feet elevation. In New York state, red spruce will grow at sea level, which has the same climate as 5000 feet elevation in the south. Those Smokies trees were at 4700 feet elevation.
The other factors that determine growth rate are availability of light (most important), soil quality, and rainfall. A red spruce can grow very slowly in the shade of an old forest, and suddenly start growing 4 or 5 times faster when the competing trees are removed via logging or natural falls. That is why just knowing the area where the spruce came from is not enough to predict growth rate.
The Smokies spruce grew on very shallow soil, competing in a forest that had been undisturbed for 500+ years. The building of US 441 weakened the soil structure, making it vulnerable to the wind and rain from Hurricane Opal. Otherwise, I would never have had an opportunity to get those logs.
Before you blame the increased growth rates on global warming, consider what I just said......the major weather factor affecting the growth rate of red spruce is availability of light. Second growth trees rarely compete for light in the same way as the old forest. That is the main reason for the rapid growth rate, and the proliferation of limbs which produce knots in the lumber. Those Smokies trees in the old forest basically stopped growing around 1969, when ozone pollution started kicking in. Similarly, the red spruce in WV are slowing down, due to acid rain. The general growth pattern in WV is 'two-toned', with tight, old growth in the heart, then a sudden increase in the early 1900's (when logging occurred which opened the canopy), and gradual slowing since then. The trees that are now big enough for guitars (23" diameter breast height) were only 6 to 8 inches in diameter back then, which was too small to cut.

I use an increment borer to take samples from standing trees, so I can see the growth rate. I have samples from several hundred trees, in five states.
Some of the widest-grained red spruce I have ever sampled (2 grains per inch) was in northern Maine near sea level, where the soil was very rich, and the second growth trees grew without competition for light. Only a few miles away, the trees we cut were much tighter-grained, but also near sea level. That means that the climate was pretty much identical. The forester explained that the soil was very poor in that area, and the trees were quite old and crowded out the light.
Many red spruce experts (which included CFMIII) contended that there is no quantitative or qualitative difference between red spruce grown in North Carolina, West Virginia, or New York. I agree. I have cut red spruce in North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, and Maine. In the 1930's, Martin sourced their red spruce from all of those areas.
When I first joined the UMGF, my opening post was titled "Why I call it red spruce." The simple answer is because that is the name of the tree, just like Engelmann or Sitka. We don't call those "Rocky Mountain spruce" or "Pacific coast spruce", do we?
When Ted Davis first took me with him on a trip to West Virginia in 1990, he was selling his wood as "Appalachian red spruce". I told him that wasn't correct, since the mountains in West Virginia are called the Alleghenies, not the Appalachians.

Thanks for the write-up Jeremy. As always you are a plethora of information.

Jeremy, with all the luthier info you have you should consider building a Guitar. Oh wait, you're already doing that.

Have you finished it up yet. I don't believe I every saw the 5th and final installment of the "First Build" thread".

Thanks but I'm just passing it along. I forgot to link the original thread which contains some great info about Red Spruce.

http://69.41.173.82/forums/showthread.php?p=1715943#post1715943

Hopefully that link will take you directly to John's post, if not his post is on page 7 of that thread(reading all the other posts might not be worth your time).

One interesting point is on the character differences between species that I have grown to suspect but didn't have enough expeirence to make up my mind about. Even though a piece of sitka may be as stiff as adi, they won't sound the same.

QuoteTo say that the different spruces 'overlap' in their physical characteristics may look good on paper, but I haven't found it to be true. Each has their own range of physical traits and characteristic sound. Sitka is tough, spongy and stringy, Engelmann is the softest and lightest, red and Euro are hard and stiff, with red and Sitka the densest. You can select a Sitka and a red top with the same grain count, density, and stiffness, but they won't sound anything alike. That is because the dynamic characteristics are different. Sitka has much higher damping, which reduces the high frequencies.

Quote from: bhika on January 29, 2009, 02:12:44 PM
Jeremy, with all the luthier info you have you should consider building a Guitar. Oh wait, you're already doing that.

Have you finished it up yet. I don't believe I every saw the 5th and final installment of the "First Build" thread".

edited: see my post in 'The Saga Continues'

That is a seriously beautiful guitar, Jeremy.  Please put up some pics when it is finished.  It must really be something to stand back and know you created it.  It is the worst time of year for guitars.  My Martin has to warm up everytime I play it and it is in a temperature/climate controlled room.  Yes get the guitar to a luthier.  He will probably glue and cleat it and you will never see it or have a problem with it again. 

I got it back fixed MF Luthier in Montreal did a great job.

They fixed the nut (it had a sharp corner) and glued the Bridge.

As good as new.

I'm glad to hear that the repairs went well.

           DAVE

Glad to hear that everything ended well for you and the guitar.  It's always nice getting an old friend back.

John