Obviously, at least it's obvious to me :smile:, had the LS's sold well, Larrivee would still be making them. I've paid attention to Larrivees for only a few months, so there's a lot I don't know about the models and their histories. Did folks prefer OM's to LS's? Was it too much of a compromise between an OM and an L (smaller like an OM but designed as an L), so people who liked the smaller size gravitated toward OM's and those who like the L style went with the L?
I've never played one, but looking at the specs, I wonder if they would make a good-around guitar, leaning to fingerstyle over strumming. Then again, the OM seems to be there too.
:donut :donut2 :donut :donut2 :donut :donut2 :donut :coffee
Bill
The european market usually likes smaller body guitars. Maybe they would be more successful over there. I have never played one either, never seen one in a shop. I think they are the nicest looking guitars in the Larrivee line-up.
Here's a brand new one at Guitar Adoptions (http://www.guitaradoptions.com/store/product.php?productid=18817&cat=257&page=3) labeled "JUST ARRIVED-- EXTREMELY RARE"!
.
Maybe this would fit the bill for someone that didn't order because they wanted gloss and bling.
:coffee :donut2 :donut
Quote from: Mr_LV19E on January 16, 2009, 09:43:15 AM
Here's a brand new one at Guitar Adoptions (http://www.guitaradoptions.com/store/product.php?productid=18817&cat=257&page=3) labeled "JUST ARRIVED-- EXTREMELY RARE"!
.
Maybe this would fit the bill for someone that didn't order because they wanted gloss and bling.
:coffee :donut2 :donut
The specs show 25.5. I thought the LS was a shorter scale guitar.
I think LS's were regular scale. The LSV-11's are short scale.
Bill
Quote from: Broadus on January 16, 2009, 09:51:29 AM
I think LS's were regular scale. The LSV-11's are short scale.
Bill
Really? the short scale was preventing me from getting one. This is good news. I'll probably grab a used one then eventually.
Yeah, and the Forum III will have the 25.5" scale and a 12 fret neck. The neck will be a tad shorter but the bridge will be placed closer to the middle of the lower bout which is so sweet!!! I can't wait!
Check this (http://randyrick.us/guitars/LarriveeSpecs.htm) out.
So how did the LS's sound compared with the OM's? Was there too much overlap and people wanted OM's instead?
Bill
Here's what I'd like in an LS:
Satin Finish
25.5
14 Fretter
Rosewood (Honduran or Mad)
Italian Spruce
Yum :drool:
What are the chances of that showing up used -- not good.
Wish Larrivee made those.
Bill
Quote from: Broadus on January 16, 2009, 10:17:01 AM
Wish Larrivee made those.
Bill
I think I recall seeing one or two LS-03's a few years ago.
Randy--any ideas why the LS's didn't have enough appeal for Larrivee to keep making them?
Bill
Quote from: Broadus on January 16, 2009, 10:36:15 AM
Randy--any ideas why the LS's didn't have enough appeal for Larrivee to keep making them?
Bill
I'll guess that they were too close to the OM size.
Quote from: Randy_R on January 16, 2009, 10:54:11 AM
I'll guess that they were too close to the OM size.
You'd think they would have an appeal in the way of the Lowden S models, though the Lowden is a bit smaller. Same kind of guitar to me.
I believe that guitar players are a pretty conservative bunch (for the most part). Strats and Les paul shaped guitars dominate electric sales and dreadnaught guitars dominate acoustic. The vast majority of beginner guitars will be those shapes and beginner guitars dominate guitar sales. And most guitar players (or aspiring players) aspire to guitars they are familiar with.
The OM body also has a long history and I think those are the size and shape players gravitate towards after they leave the dreads. The LS is shaped like a classical guitar...which also has a long history but has a distinctly different vibe than guitars associated with popular musics (rock/folk/blues/etc). And those musics are rooted in guitar sounds...especially steel string guitars.
Classical guitars have been associated with classical and other "serious" music and been neglected in many forms of pop music (with the exception of some jazz and brazillian sounds). So that body shape is kind of foreign to most music fans.
I see the LS as a kind of hybrid...a steel stringed classical guitar.
I would think the 4" depth on a 14 fret would make it a specific need type of fit in the line up, more in line with a 12 fret 00. A thin line full scale seems a bit odd to me, then again I like dreads. Just my .02
I'm just guessing, but one of the problems I find with the LS models is that they do not have consistent specs. If you look around, they are either 12 or 14 fret, short or long scale, and the body size ranges from just under 15" to as much as 15-1/2, and depth from just under 4 to over 4-1/4. They are either steel string or nylon. The Forum guitars will be the first LS-03s I've seen, but looking at the various used I've found around, it just seems a badly defined style.
If you are looking for a 14 fret LS, that is not a problem - the LSV-11 is available in short scale, as well as a LSV-05 and a LS-05 in standard scale. There is a 12 fret standard scale LS-09 available, and the new 14 fret LS-10 that was noted. There was recently a LS-30 classical posted available ( don't remember the frets on it).
When you look at used OMs, Ls, Ds, 00s, etc., all you really want to confirm is neck width, since the rest of it has stayed pretty consistent over the years ( there are variations - but not too commonly). If you start looking at used LSs, it seems you have to check just about everything.
This may be the largest order of LSs they've ever made - I doubt that this will encourage Larrivee to bring it back, since they would still have to define its place in their market and convince dealers to carry them. Since most dealers cannot carry huge amounts of inventory, they are doing well to carry the range of more often sold Ds and Ls and OMs, with a few parlors thrown in. Most don't carry SDs, 000s, Cs, or even LSVs. And even fewer basses, baritones, 00s, and don't forget mandolins, ukeleles, and electrics.
With this many ordered, the used market should be very good for these in the years ahead. Anyone who didn't order one should find one available if they keep their eyes open, but I think they will hold their value nicely. For those that appreciate the size and feel of this instrument, I think it will be one heck of a player.
Tad
The current crop of LSv short scale, wide neck, guitars borrowed the name LS from the previous line. That was unfortunate and has caused much confusion. We have resurrected the (old) LS for the ForumIII guitar as a special request, though there appear to be a few of them still for sale new in the pipeline, so to speak.
yes the dimensions of Larrivee body sizes appear to have slightly changed over the years.
re LS (old style 1.75nut standard scale) available in 12fret. I think that was always a special order option, just as one could special order any body size with a 12 fret neck. Normally it was a 14fret neck.
Having said that, I don't recall seeing a full bodied L or D with a 12 fret neck, but I suppose that thought deserves its own thread. There are likely a few out there somewhere off my radar.
I don't think it's safe to assume that sales were bad.
Quote from: bluesman67 on January 16, 2009, 01:06:53 PM
I don't think it's safe to assume that sales were bad.
Not necessarily "bad," but not good enough to continue producing them. Surely Larrivee would discontinue a successful model, do you think?
Bill
The LSV is still selling (in an 11 series)and it is one of Larrivee's pricier guitars. Some years ago Jean decided to remodel the LS line. He pinched the waist a little bit and made it a hair deeper, etc. Kind of like the way Taylor revoiced some of its guitars a few years ago. The LSV's are now made in Oxnard. When the idea for a third forum guitar came up, Jean suggested producing a fingerstyle guitar, with an Italian top at a reduced price for forum members. It could be produced in Vancouver, using the molds from the older design LS (which were sitting around doing nothing), and given a satin finish, which is what they do in the Vancouver facility, all at a good price. I think it was a fantastic idea. (If it had only been short scale......). I think those of you who ordered one are in for a real treat. Jim
"So how did the LS's sound compared with the OM's? Was there too much overlap and people wanted OM's instead?"
I have both an LS and an OM. Yes, they are similarly sized. But I really prefer the LS-10 to ANY of my acoustic guitars. Very balanced and comfortable to play. And, great tone. The OM-09 actually seems to have a bit more bottom end and a little less top end, but I think that's due to the strings currently on it (D'Addario Flat tops) Maybe they were to similar to warrant keeping both lines, but I know if I could only have one it would be the LS-10.
Quote from: axeman on January 16, 2009, 04:15:41 PM
I have both an LS and an OM. Yes, they are similarly sized. But I really prefer the LS-10 to ANY of my acoustic guitars. Very balanced and comfortable to play. And, great tone. The OM-09 actually seems to have a bit more bottom end and a little less top end, but I think that's due to the strings currently on it (D'Addario Flat tops) Maybe they were to similar to warrant keeping both lines, but I know if I could only have one it would be the LS-10.
That seems to be the general impression I get from people's comments.
The Larrivee OMs seem to be considered by many as a great OM guitar, but those who have LS's seem to say they are just great guitars full stop. It is interesting that no comments have been posted on any thread that makes me think this has been a mistake. The only mistake might have been not ordering one of each!!!
Audiophil's LS-09 is simply breathtaking too, which has made the anticipation even better.
With reference to this thread's title, to me it seems that the majority of the guitar buying public have set ideas on guitars. Reading Larrivee's history, it seems they were reluctant in ways to build dreadnaughts, but felt it essential to compete with the big guys (i.e. Martin). Whilst many might be trying to step away from the Martin Taylor Gibson tradition, the standard body shapes are imprinted on peoples minds, be it Gibson Jumbo, Martin Dread or Martin OM. The LS seems too detached from this standard to me to be commercially viable to anyone other than those who know.
But then we know about the Larrivee bug thing.
Ben
Quote from: ehlefttb on January 16, 2009, 03:27:37 PM
The LSV is still selling (in an 11 series)and it is one of Larrivee's pricier guitars. Some years ago Jean decided to remodel the LS line. He pinched the waist a little bit and made it a hair deeper, etc. Kind of like the way Taylor revoiced some of its guitars a few years ago. The LSV's are now made in Oxnard. When the idea for a third forum guitar came up, Jean suggested producing a fingerstyle guitar, with an Italian top at a reduced price for forum members. It could be produced in Vancouver, using the molds from the older design LS (which were sitting around doing nothing), and given a satin finish, which is what they do in the Vancouver facility, all at a good price. I think it was a fantastic idea. (If it had only been short scale......). I think those of you who ordered one are in for a real treat. Jim
You have many points incorrect in this post,but it ain't a biggie.
Quote from: Mr_LV19E on January 16, 2009, 09:43:15 AM
Here's a brand new one at Guitar Adoptions (http://www.guitaradoptions.com/store/product.php?productid=18817&cat=257&page=3) labeled "JUST ARRIVED-- EXTREMELY RARE"!
.
Maybe this would fit the bill for someone that didn't order because they wanted gloss and bling.
:coffee :donut2 :donut
http://www.guitaradoptions.com/store/product.php?productid=18817&cat=257&page=3
It is a beautiful Guitar, it makes me wonder if this was "completed" after we began the F-III discussion and it became clear that there is a demand for these. The specs. are the older smaller sizes like we ordered also.
Sure seems like an interesting coincidence.
I've also seen more small body Larrivee's coming up for sale. It may be coincidence also. But I think some realize it's a good time to sell an LS or CS or 00 here on the forum.
To add to this LS confusion.....
Try a searh for L-Lite, or OM-Lite
Another discontinued body size that I looked hard at when I first found Larrivee.
Difficult to find, but still desireable.
ds
I'm really just guessing here, but maybe it has to do with Larrivee's dealers. There are a few select dealers that carry many models, but there are MANY dealers that carry only a few (OM, L, D). Some maybe only D and OM (as some posters have attested having difficulty finding even an L model). And...guitar purchases via internet dealers is a relatively new phenomenon.
Maybe? Maybe not.
This ties in with Dotneck's "most guitar players are conservative" theory...
Quote from: ehlefttb on January 16, 2009, 03:27:37 PM
The LSV is still selling (in an 11 series)and it is one of Larrivee's pricier guitars. Some years ago Jean decided to remodel the LS line. He pinched the waist a little bit and made it a hair deeper, etc. Kind of like the way Taylor revoiced some of its guitars a few years ago. The LSV's are now made in Oxnard. When the idea for a third forum guitar came up, Jean suggested producing a fingerstyle guitar, with an Italian top at a reduced price for forum members. It could be produced in Vancouver, using the molds from the older design LS (which were sitting around doing nothing), and given a satin finish, which is what they do in the Vancouver facility, all at a good price. I think it was a fantastic idea. (If it had only been short scale......). I think those of you who ordered one are in for a real treat. Jim
Ummmm....are you a consultant for Deloitte or something? Actually I feel the need to correct this oversight to give credit where credit is due: the collective intelligence of the forum. Through a great deal of discussion and self-guidance, this forum came up with the specifications for the latest Forum Guitar. All credit due to JCL, but I find it amazing that the Forum was able to come up with such a remarkable guitar. I can't wait to hear the collective reviews of all who purchased and I think we should open a thread specifically for this purpose at the guitars arrive.
Cheers,
Adam
Pretty easy to spot at least one factual error in Jim's post. :winkin: I do hope his conclusions are on the mark though. I'd be interested in hearing where this version of the creation of forum III originated.
Anyone who has followed the original forum guitar thread knows that it was a handful of forum members; Danny, Tadol, Ricky, and several others (sorry if I left you out) who spearheaded both the design and selection of Italian spruce for the forum III. All of us were thrilled to hear that JCL accepted the task of building these for us. Was Jean already thinking of this before we, through Jim Holler, took the proposal to him ? I suppose it doesn't matter except I like to see credit given where and to whom it's due.
Jim, do we have it wrong ? :?
Tuffythepug