So I've just been informed (again). So that would mean that quite a few of us have encountered this need. How many here? What kind of guitar and what age?  

Owning 30 guitars the oldest being a 48 Gibson L7.I've never had to do a  neck set.Guitars I've had to sets on were left in atic's and barn's.To predestin a guitar to need a neck set is just bad mojo..... :D  

Four times. Most recently a '64 Framus 12 string. A '67 D-28 back in '85  and a BRW Martin 12 string that was around 18 years old. A one year old Breedlove 12. Glad that one was a bolt-on or I'd have waited 2-3 months to get it back instead of 2 weeks. My '99 Larrivee OMV-09K *will* need a reset far sooner than it should. Resetting a dovetail is not cheap and to be done absolutely perfectly should include a refret as well. Since few people are the original owners when this comes due they don't care to spend the money for the job (We're talking $400+ to do it right). The Breedlove was the only warranty reset I've ever had done. The rest I paid for. Every one of them resulted in a far better guitar that was worth every dime I put into them.

I have a 1982 Daion Dread that needs a reset (needs more relief). I made a new nut and saddle to lift the strings as high as I can and it plays OK now. But, it could have used a reset as far back as 6 or 7 years ago.

QuoteOwning 30 guitars the oldest being a 48 Gibson L7.I've never had to do a  neck set.Guitars I've had to sets on were left in atic's and barn's.To predestin a guitar to need a neck set is just bad mojo..... :D

The need for it happens so slowly that most owners don't even realize how the guitar's deteriorated over the years. Maybe I'm a bit picky about such things but shouldn't your guitar be all it can be?

Thats just it they are.If you need to reset a neck to make it play to your liking please feel free.I've been repairing for a very long time I've seen all sorts of stuff.I'm very happy with what I have and how they play and sound and feel.Just because it's old doesn't mean it's broken.......

Well, my Gibson J55 could use a neck reset . . . I just haven't bothered yet.

64 have viewed this post. So far there has been a need for 6 resets, 2 on old guitars. 4 by the some person with one Larrivée which may or may not someday need one. The argument for a bolt on neck sounds specious at best. Of course, these are Larrivée owners. We break wind in the general direction of neck resets.  ;)  

I got an old Kay...maybe a 1960....from a friend. It needed a neck reset and frets to boot. The guitar wasn't worth the $$. I gave it to my slide blues playing buddy, and he uses it in open D exclusively, and it's fine for that. Its playing days aren't over yet.

(oh, by the way, 20 years in someone's closet, strings not loosened at all....I wonder if that affected anything?)  

You know, the threads just keep getting better on this forum. Here are two questions for you with experience in the neck area:
1)Can you "eyeball" for neck issues when looking at guitars or is it detectable by playing?
2) How important is a neck reset to a beginner-intermediate player like myself?

It seems like I always see some imperfections (binding, tops, dusty fretboards!) in every guitar I look at. I have become obsessed lately with any rises in the soundboard behind the bridge, but one of my friends told me to just "play it" and don't worry about it unless it looks like the bridge is coming up. So, this is all very interesting to us newbies. Thanks again!
Happy Friday, I knew it would come!!!
--Fred

Fred,
Frank Ford's article (which is definitive IMO) here is excellent.
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/G.../neckangle.html (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html)
I would also highly recommend perusing other articles on his page regarding necks, truss rods, etc.
http://www.frets.com (http://www.frets.com)

Thanks for the great links orsino!

You know I'd never say that one never needs a neck reset but I believe their need is as rare as hens teeth unless we're talking older cheaper guitars and guitars that have been stored or treated badly. If someone told me that my (playable) guitar needed a neck reset, I'd get a couple of other opinions. On most good guitars there are other adjustments that can be made to improve playability. Bolt on necks, on the other hand, will certainly need a neck reset or several as the years pass. Like my strat. So they attempt to convince us that since ALL guitars will eventually require a neck reset that the Taylor neck with it's ability to be set in 5 minutes by virtually any 12 year old with a socket wrench is actually superior. I'm not buying it. Even if I accept that they are "as good". Unless, that is, the price is well below that of a traditionally built guitar. Am I nuts?  

QuoteYou know I'd never say that one never needs a neck reset but I believe their need is as rare as hens teeth unless we're talking older cheaper guitars and guitars that have been stored or treated badly. If someone told me that my (playable) guitar needed a neck reset, I'd get a couple of other opinions. On most good guitars there are other adjustments that can be made to improve playability. Bolt on necks, on the other hand, will certainly need a neck reset or several as the years pass. Like my strat. So they attempt to convince us that since ALL guitars will eventually require a neck reset that the Taylor neck with it's ability to be set in 5 minutes by virtually any 12 year old with a socket wrench is actually superior. I'm not buying it. Even if I accept that they are "as good". Unless, that is, the price is well below that of a traditionally built guitar. Am I nuts?

A reset costs as much to do on a cheap guitar as on a good one so it's logical to assume that few people spend the bucks to reset a cheapo. The majority of the reset in one friends shop are Martins and rarely are they belonging to the original owners so its not warranty work. Your 25 year old guitar may not absolutely "need" a reset but by the standards delineated on the Frank Ford site that Orsino provided, you *may* have room for improvement. The extreme cases are obviously worth doing but I've seen guitars that were "OK" or "good enough" tranformed into excellent by getting the action down to amore playable level and the saddle high enough to get good down pressure on the top. To me, a reset isn't something you do at the last minute to revive a dead instrument, it's something you do to keep your great instrument the best it can be. My OMV is still quite playable and sounds pretty damn good but it fails a lot of the tests that the Frank Ford site shows. I *know* this guitar could be better. So, no, you're not nuts, just lucky.

Okay, I guess I'd rather be lucky than nuts, most days. Hey and fortunately or not I don't own any Martins.

QuoteOkay, I guess I'd rather be lucky than nuts, most days. Hey and fortunately or not I don't own any Martins.

I don't think Martins are any more prone to needing resets than anything else but it seems that more people are willing to invest in maintaining them.

I had an gentleman come to me with a newish Gibson J200 that was off by the Gibson std's 1/64" heasked me to reset the neck and I told him no because it really didn't need it.Being as it was a used guitar to him it was not covered by warranty he sent it back to Gibson got charged over $400 and brought back to me when it was done and it didn't play any better and he felt he was riped off.So before you send your guitar out for a neck set get a few repair people to look at it.Spec's are spec's there not LAW.....Rant over I'm going back behind the rock before the crap fly's.... :ph34r:  

QuoteI had an gentleman come to me with a newish Gibson J200 that was off by the Gibson std's 1/64" heasked me to reset the neck and I told him no because it really didn't need it.Being as it was a used guitar to him it was not covered by warranty he sent it back to Gibson got charged over $400 and brought back to me when it was done and it didn't play any better and he felt he was riped off.So before you send your guitar out for a neck set get a few repair people to look at it.Spec's are spec's there not LAW.....Rant over I'm going back behind the rock before the crap fly's.... :ph34r:

1/64"!!?? I wouldn't have done it either unless there was some compelling reason to believe that an increase in neck angle would improve the tone. Factory specs are kind of arbitrary anyway. What the factory says is "in spec" may not neccesarily be the optimum. Was the break angle from the saddles to the pins shallow? I ameliorated that problem on mine by planing a little meat off the back side of the bridge, countersinking the pinholes a little and cutting a guide slot in each pin hole. That'll hold me for now but eventually the saddles going to be flush with the bridge.

*ameliorated*  

:blink:  

There was no other reason to reset the neck accept that it wasn't to spec in the owner's manual.

Quote*ameliorated*  

:blink:

Sorry, I wasn't aware that I needed to speak s  l  o  w  l  y and use small words in this group.  

I don't need no stinkin resets. ( My Larrivees are almost new!)
I asked our local luthier deity guy about resets once. He seemd to think it was common to require a reset on many older Martins. Doesn't that have something to do with the body sinking in front of the bridge on lightly braced guitars?  Seems to me that when the guitar gets too hard to play and there is not enough saddle sticking up above the bridge then a repair is in order. Don't listen to uncle rob. I know a lot more about this than him. I fixed a guitar once. He has been earning a living at it since Jesus was a corporal.  

jimmyd "He has been earning a living at it since Jesus was a corporal. "
ROFLOL :lol:
That corporal remark might get you into trouble.

Quote

Quote*ameliorated* 

:blink:

Sorry, I wasn't aware that I needed to speak s  l  o  w  l  y and use small words in this group.

ameliorated........What happened when the world's most famous female aviator's plane hit the ground.

Tom...LOL and almost spilled my 13 year old single malt scotch...... :D  

Ho Ho - but back on resets, surely the gauge of strings used must have a lot to do with the need for 'em? I use light/compound light strings & have never needed a neck resetting, except on 1 used Martin OM that had been strung with mediums; intuitively, I'd have thought that the substantial difference in gauges between light/medium would make a big difference?..

Well, the physics would support your argument. As Martin and other well-built guitars are rock solid enough to withstand a LOT of conditions, I guess I would wonder if the difference between lights and mediums would make a big enough difference to caose the mediums to to cause a reset sooner than lights in a normal guitar's lifetime.
My understanding is that the strength of the soundboard does affect the ability to use a higher guage string though.

Quote

Quote

Quote*ameliorated* 

:blink:

Sorry, I wasn't aware that I needed to speak s  l  o  w  l  y and use small words in this group.

ameliorated........What happened when the world's most famous female aviator's plane hit the ground.

thanks for the discussion
lurking and learning

and this just in:

*avoidable*
what a matador does...

It seems to be a catch-22. If your top is so stiff that it needs mediums to respond better one would think that it would be more apt to resist the bellying that makes the reset neccesary. I think other variables have a little more influence, especially the heat and humidity that the guitar experiences.  

I'm using 14-58's on all but my 12 strings never had a problem.Most guitars that I've had to do neck set's on were pretty abused,ie left in cars,barns,the rain,etc etc.I should also add that some guitars are attached with dowels instead of screws or dovetails these show up a lot also.

QuoteI'm using 14-58's on all but my 12 strings never had a problem.Most guitars that I've had to do neck set's on were pretty abused,ie left in cars,barns,the rain,etc etc.I should also add that some guitars are attached with dowels instead of screws or dovetails these show up a lot also.

Any Gurians? Mortise and tenon joint with tapered dowels.  

Not yet.

OOOOHHH......you guys are SO sexy when you talk techy! ;)  

Tom Still waiting for that pix of you in fishnet's and G string....Now That's sexy.... :D  

The older Martins didn't have adjustment rods. just like the early Larrivees didn't.

In fact when I bought my D-28 martin in 1971 the strings were high for about a year until the neck settled in. The necks were built in anticipation of the stress of use. I also recall that it was 'normal' to expect a neck reset every 5-10 years.

Correct. My 1975 Larrivée does not have an adjustable truss rod. However, it's neck has not noticably budged. The action is low and it has NEVER buzzed. It stays in almost perfect tune, left in the case for long periods. The 6th string sharpens just a nanotad. At one time the Larrivée website claimed that neck resets were almot non existent. I would think lawyers would advise you not to make claims of that nature.  
However, here's my thinking on the subject. If you make 100 guitars and 1% of them need warranty work, that's no big deal. If you make 1,000 guitar, it's still only ten but once you make 50,000 or a million in Martin's case, the liability of having a possible 500 to 50,000 possible big warranty repairs would cause one to take some out some insurance or precaution in the form of an adjustable truss rod.  
A reset every 5-10 years? Only if Mr. Magoo has the job of setting the necks in the first place. It seems we're always talking about errors and poorly made joints when we are talking resets. Gluey messes and spaces. Not ones that were done properly to begin with.      

QuoteA reset every 5-10 years? Only if Mr. Magoo has the job of setting the necks in the first place. It seems we're always talking about errors and poorly made joints when we are talking resets. Gluey messes and spaces. Not ones that were done properly to begin with.

Again. I don't believe it was a matter of poor construction to begin with. But a fact of life if one wanted to keep a low string action on a pre-trussrod steel string guitar and use anything other than light strings.

My memory has been known to remember things in a funny way, or out of context, so just for grins I'll mosey over to the Martin Forum and see what some of the owners of pre-1970 dreadnaughts have to say about the matter.

It would also be interesting to hear what Matthew Larrivee has to say on this matter concerning the percentage of pre-trussrod Larrivee guitars that need a neck reset and what the conditions are that might hasten such work.

I'll probably add an early Larrivee guitar to my collection at some point in the future. Requiring a possible neckset doesn't bother me too much.

i stand corrected.

After checking on the umgf, what I was recalling wasn't a neck reset, but a neck press. A less drastic repair it would appear.

However:

quote:

I'm not sure what the teller meant when he used that term...but it sounds like it referes to heating the glue between the fingerboard and neck and "slipping" the fingerboard in such a way as to "straighten" the neck. the neck/fingerboard is then clamped or "pressed" into a straighter position, and left to cool. It is only temporary, and has been discredited by most luthiers because 1. it is temporary, 2. It's kind of a slipshod operation. 3. it doesn't work well anyway.

It really has nothing to do with neck sets, just with straightening the neck (two different things entirely).

QuoteThe older Martins didn't have adjustment rods. just like the early Larrivees didn't.

In fact when I bought my D-28 martin in 1971 the strings were high for about a year until the neck settled in. The necks were built in anticipation of the stress of use. I also recall that it was 'normal' to expect a neck reset every 5-10 years.

Huh?? The action got *lower*? With all other things remaining equal and unchanged (you didn't shave down the saddle, did you?) the action could only get higher, couldn't it? For the action to spontaneously lower over time seems physically impossible.

QuoteAfter checking on the umgf, what I was recalling wasn't a neck reset, but a neck press. A less drastic repair it would appear.

The neck press, ah yes; looks like a medieval torture device for bending the excess relief out of the neck. A neck reset though has nothing to with the neck relief but rather the increasing neck angle due to the top bellying and it's almost never a result of a failure of the heel joint.

QuoteHuh?? The action got *lower*? With all other things remaining equal and unchanged (you didn't shave down the saddle, did you?) the action could only get higher, couldn't it? For the action to spontaneously lower over time seems physically impossible.

Thats the way the old Martins were. You're right, its not intuitive.

In the 22 years I've had my old Daion Dread, the action has gottne progressively lower. The truss rod can no longer be adjusted to give any neck relief.

QuoteTom Still waiting for that pix of you in fishnet's and G string....Now That's sexy.... :D

Now this is one branch of the thread that DEFINITELY needs to be taken off-line. But it does tend to confirm some suspicions.

You guys moving to Massachusetts anytime soon?  :ph34r:  ;)  

Quote

QuoteHuh?? The action got *lower*? With all other things remaining equal and unchanged (you didn't shave down the saddle, did you?) the action could only get higher, couldn't it? For the action to spontaneously lower over time seems physically impossible.

Thats the way the old Martins were. You're right, its not intuitive.

I bought my first Martin 35 years ago and I've never heard that one.